Melee DPS on completionist - need suggestions

[Qnevven]

Hey
It seems that my main character is finally ready to True Reincarnate into his first life as a completionist.
Although i have played all the classes and several different builds (including my other 4 characters) i'm still not entirely sure what i want my final build to look like.

I'm pretty sure i want a melee DPS - possibly with TWF line

Looking for builds that have
- very good damage output
- good survivability (do not plan on playing solo - but it's nice to be able to withstand a fair number of blows before the help/heals arrive)
- decent healing amplification (who doesn't love it)
- some self-healing would be a nice addition but isn't a top most priority (i imagine silver flame pots would be used if needed)
- being able to play the role of a tank with a gear change (and minor changes to enhancements if necessary)

If you have any suggestions (including gear setup) dont hesitate to post with specific builds ;-)



EDIT:
Forgot to add some info:
so far only have 3 +3 tomes used (str, dex, con - the rest is only +2) but you can safely treat me as +3 in all states for the purpose of proposed builds.
I will hunt for +4 tomes eventually but might take a while to achieve it.

From any notable epic/endagem items already in my possession - can't say i have any :P (yeah, well, farming epics wasn't my main goal and i usually TRed soon after reaching level 20 - plus there is that thing that i didn't know what class/build my completionist will be)
I'm pretty sure that i will be hunting for Litany of the Dead trinket unless the suggested build will have a better item for that slot (planar focus? not really sure if i want them - but it depends on the main weapon type for the build)
Any other items? just go wild and pick whatever will be the best option

Qnev

[Clayness]

Personally I feel that the Completionist feat is best spent on making a character that uses as many ability scores as possible. Completionist is also a very nice, passive boost to skills, especially a skill that is hard to increase such as UMD.

If you simply make a barbarian, the Completionist feat is rather wasted in my opinion. Then you would have been better of getting just.. 3x fighter, 3x monk, 3x paladin than Completionist.

Personally I would try to at least splash in some rogue, rogue really benefits greatly from Completionist since you use virtually every stat (with the exception of Wisdom).

Since you also have some juicy active past lives to choose from, it is probably hard to avoid Fighter if you want to go melee, you will need the extra feats.

Since you say you also want healing amplification, you kind of narrow down the options further, since that requires that you take either paladin levels and get the Hunter of the Dead prestige enhancement (a horribly bad PrE at end-game) or you take monk levels.

You need at least 3 levels of monk to get a bit more healing amplification. You also want to tank, so going Stalwart Defender would be a very solid option.

This starts to narrow down the build even more. What I am personally thinking at this point is the option of using the Celestia shortswords.

You might think "Wouldn't this make me uncentered with monk levels?". The answer is that it doesn't, if you choose to aim for Ninja Spy 1.

All in all this is what I am thinking at this point. 12 Fighter with Stalwart Defender, 7 Monk with Ninja Spy and 1 Rogue. You get +20% heal amp from Monk, you get a big bundle of bonus feats from Fighter that lets you take the juicy active past lives (such as the paladin past life and the rogue past life) and you get full UMD, which should be rather easy to get up to a useful level with the Completionist feat.

All in all I think this build would achieve literally everything you are aiming for. You will have high hitpoints, shadowfade, evasion, good healing amplification, good damage and nice self-healing and self-buffing through UMD.

[Bolo_Grubb]

The only chracter of mine I would consider doing a completionist on would be my rogue, and I think I would go pure rogue due to my play style.

Although this will never happen for me because I am burned out on TRing and have too many characters.

Rogue and Bard or splash of rogue and or bard would seem to benefit the most.

[Clayness]

I sat down to make a build that would, hopefully, fulfill your requirements. I went half-elf for the healing amplification and for the access to paladin diletante (which would benefit from your Completionist feat as well). The build has good saves, evasion, good hitpoints, good damage, self-healing, good healing amplification.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Joe Schmoe
Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Male
(12 Fighter / 7 Monk / 1 Rogue)
Hit Points: 369
Spell Points: 40

BAB: 17/17/22/27/27
Fortitude: 20
Reflex: 17
Will: 12

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Abilities Base Stats Modified Stats
(36 Point) (Level 1) (Level 20)
Strength 16 29
Dexterity 14 19
Constitution 16 21
Intelligence 12 16
Wisdom 8 12
Charisma 14 18

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 3
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 11
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 11

Starting Feat/Enhancement
Base Skills Modified Skills
Skills (Level 1) (Level 20)
Balance 6 24
Bluff 2 7
Concentration 3 20
Diplomacy 2 7
Disable Device n/a n/a
Haggle 6 11
Heal -1 6
Hide 6 13
Intimidate 2 13
Jump 7 37
Listen -1 4
Move Silently 6 13
Open Lock n/a n/a
Perform n/a n/a
Repair 1 7
Search 1 7
Spot 3 8
Swim 7 17
Tumble 6 13
Use Magic Device 6 31

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Selected) Hamstring
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Artificer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Bard
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Cleric
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Druid
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Favored Soul
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Ranger
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Sorcerer
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Wizard
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I

Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I

Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Completionist
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Way of the Pattient Tortoise I

Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness

Level 5 (Monk)

Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Soldier of the Faith
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I

Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II

Level 8 (Monk)
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery II

Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I

Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II

Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Adept of Wind

Level 12 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I

Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II

Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II

Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I

Level 16 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II

Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Shortsword Specialization I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante III

Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Focus: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV

Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I

Level 20 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Piercing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I

[Clayness]

As you can see I managed to fit in both the active paladin and rogue past lives, which I consider the two most potent active past lives for a melee (well, monk is also very good, but only if you are unarmed). Going shortswords also saves several feats over going khopeshes, so I also fit in cleave and great cleave, which means you will be able to take overwhelming critical with one of your epic feats.

The Celestia shortswords will bypass almost any DR in game (I think they don't bypass the DR of the Lord of the Blades since he has Light Resistance, but otherwise). They have Radiance on them as well, which means you can easily get in that juicy sneak attack damage (You have 2d6+4 SA just from the build alone, you can get another +10 when you use the rogue active past life clicky and you can easily get +8 to +13 from items).

All in all I think it is a fairly solid build that will take advantage of Completionist to the fullest.

[Qnevven]

Thanks for your imput Clayness
On a first glance that build looks
Can i ask why going dark monk? is it for qualifying shortswords as ki weapons?

And as far as healing amplification - i was thinking more in terms of gear - although enhancements from either human/h-elf and monk adds quite a bit to the overal bonus.

I also completly agree with you that completionist would be a waste on a barbarian and other feat-starved builds (Paladin DoS comes to mind - although the ability boost would sure be a great addition to any paladin). My other characters are being trained for divine caster (evoker fvs) and arcane caster (palemaster) so i wasn't even considering casters for my main character.
I was going to consider several well known TWF builds
- Monster (*) (12/6/2 ftr/rgr/monk)
- Monster (*) variant (dont know proper name (12/6/2 with rogue instead of monk)
- Meathelmet 2.0 (tank build based on same class split as monster)
- Emerald 1.0
- Emerald 2.0 (gotta see if these two are still valid after all the u14 changes)
- Exploiter (does anyone still use it?)

and i will also add your build to the list to consider - guess i have to spend much more time thinking about the final build than i have ever expected... and it already gives me headaches


EDIT:
(*) - it's 2 am here and i'm already confused - is the Monster with rogue splash or monk splash? :/

[Qnevven]

Also - if i decide to go h-elf i will probably consider only one dilletante - rogue

[Moltier]

Consider a simple Half elf (or human) monk.
They benefit a lot from completionist.

TWF: check
Good damage: check
good survivability: check
heal amp: check
self healing: check (silver flame pots)
tank: check (earth stance)

[Dunklerlindwurm]

Funny how people say the completionist feat is bad and they would never take it except on a rogue....

But they take Spell Focus Feats on every caster.....dont they see that the completionist feat is way better then any spell focus feat??

For any caster the feat gives at least

+1 to all spell schools +25 HP +a tiny amount of SP because of casting ability increase

[Clayness]

Also - if i decide to go h-elf i will probably consider only one dilletante - rogue

The reason I suggested paladin is because you already get sneak attack from rogue and it doesn't stack with dilletante sneak attack, and cleric dilletante isn't really useful either if you have good UMD. The reason I suggested ninja spy was so that you could be centered with shortswords, so that you gain shadowfade, and because of the added 1d6 sneak attack damage.

Dunkler, personally I didn't even touch the subject of dilletante on a non-melee. Personally I think the feat is swell on a caster, as you mention you basically get the same benefit as spell focus, with a bonus of additional hit points and a few other goodies.

[Qnevven]

Consider a simple Half elf (or human) monk.
They benefit a lot from completionist.

TWF: check
Good damage: check
good survivability: check
heal amp: check
self healing: check (silver flame pots)
tank: check (earth stance)

While i am aware that monks are nowadays a great DPS and with the right Epic Destines even overpowered (yes, i've said it) - unarmed fighting doesn't really fit into my preffered play style

[Alkot]

While i am aware that monks are nowadays a great DPS and with the right Epic Destines even overpowered (yes, i've said it) - unarmed fighting doesn't really fit into my preffered play style

Probly a good idea to mention that earlier seeing as pretty for pretty much every other melee completionist gives you a total of + 1hit/damage and 25hp. I wouldn't dare put it on a barb so i guess ftr would be your solid option here. take all twf feats stunning blow imp sunder pl pally and completionist and u still have room for 4toughness or so.

[Clayness]

I have also grown a bit tired of unarmed, which is why I went shortswords on my own melee character (who is currently on his 11th life). I am using Rad II GS shortswords to level up with, aiming for Celestias once I reach epic levels.

I would suggest a gear setup somewhat like this:

Helm: GS HP Smoke
Necklace: Kyosho's
Goggles: Drow Smoke Goggles
Trinket: +3 insight str Planar Focus of Prowess (+4 hit and damage, 15 PRR)/Litany for LoB
Cloak: Adamantine Cloak of the Wolf (Adamantine Cloak of the Bear for tanking)
Armor: +8 dex spider-spun caparison/Red Armor
Belt: Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle (with Greater False Life and +6 Charisma)
Ring 1: Kyosho's (20% healing amp)
Ring 2: Seal of House Avithoul
Gloves: Gloves of the Claw
Bracers: Bracers of the Claw
Boots: Free (I would use Cannith Boots of Propulsion if you go a build like I suggest, or any other build that has UMD and/or Stalwart Defender or Defender of Siberys. Otherwise I would use Madstone Boots (they do though not stack with SD/DOS stance, and you can't UMD while Madstoned)).

[Rawel_San]

Funny how people say the completionist feat is bad and they would never take it except on a rogue....

But they take Spell Focus Feats on every caster.....dont they see that the completionist feat is way better then any spell focus feat??

For any caster the feat gives at least

+1 to all spell schools +25 HP +a tiny amount of SP because of casting ability increase

I'm not sure people are saying that. If it was a feat anyone could take I'm sure everyone would. The issue is
if you are going to do 12+ lives you will usually be better off doing triples of some classes instead of
completionst. Of course if you do triples of every class it's a different situation.

[Purkilius]

look at these builds:
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386083
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=371016

Both benefit greatly from FotW and US ED´s

[Qnevven]

yeah - i'm leaning towards the "new monster build" - might add some tweaking but i think this particular build has all i needed :-)

[Zerkul]

Hey
It seems that my main character is finally ready to True Reincarnate into his first life as a completionist.
Although i have played all the classes and several different builds (including my other 4 characters) i'm still not entirely sure what i want my final build to look like.

I'm pretty sure i want a melee DPS - possibly with TWF line

Looking for builds that have
- very good damage output
- good survivability (do not plan on playing solo - but it's nice to be able to withstand a fair number of blows before the help/heals arrive)
- decent healing amplification (who doesn't love it)
- some self-healing would be a nice addition but isn't a top most priority (i imagine silver flame pots would be used if needed)
- being able to play the role of a tank with a gear change (and minor changes to enhancements if necessary)

If you have any suggestions (including gear setup) dont hesitate to post with specific builds ;-)



EDIT:
Forgot to add some info:
so far only have 3 +3 tomes used (str, dex, con - the rest is only +2) but you can safely treat me as +3 in all states for the purpose of proposed builds.
I will hunt for +4 tomes eventually but might take a while to achieve it.

From any notable epic/endagem items already in my possession - can't say i have any :P (yeah, well, farming epics wasn't my main goal and i usually TRed soon after reaching level 20 - plus there is that thing that i didn't know what class/build my completionist will be)
I'm pretty sure that i will be hunting for Litany of the Dead trinket unless the suggested build will have a better item for that slot (planar focus? not really sure if i want them - but it depends on the main weapon type for the build)
Any other items? just go wild and pick whatever will be the best option

Qnev

Contact me ingame, i'll give you all the info you need and point you to the uber direction.

BR,
Z.

EDIT: Pardon i tought it was Cannith Section ... too bad. Anyway Top melee DPesses are THF right now... TWF doesn't approach that level of DPS but can compensate with utility. Basically there are two sides: Melee Utility (Monk) <-- Fighter TWF (balanced between the two) --> Melee DPS (Barbarian THF) ... Left side is also the sturdier and more survivable one.

[Cetus]

Make a pure completionist Kensei DPS fighter. With your arti life and completionist feat you should be able to tweak your UMD to pretty much no fail in full dps mode (I'm at 39 in full blast dps mode with triple arti lives, so if you have one arti I guess you'd be at about 37ish, so a single item swap).

Aaaaaaaand, they pwn barbs. =D

[Bolo_Grubb]

Funny how people say the completionist feat is bad and they would never take it except on a rogue....

But they take Spell Focus Feats on every caster.....dont they see that the completionist feat is way better then any spell focus feat??

For any caster the feat gives at least

+1 to all spell schools +25 HP +a tiny amount of SP because of casting ability increase

Well for me I don't play Arcanes and rarely play divines, so my point of view is from melee. I never siad the completionist feat was bad, only that my rogue is the only I would consider going for it on.

And to be honest I will never have the completionist feat simply because I don't think I could ever TR a character that many times.

[ElbionTcob]

Personally, if I had completionist I would either go Pure Rogue (which cant tank so no ) 18 Ranger/1 Monk/1 Arty Helf Rogue Dilly with Legendary Dreadnought for Dps/Hps and twist in some AC type stuff. Or I might toss around with the old GrumbleGut build. And go 13 Rogue/6 Paly/1 Monk for killer saves, ac and dps.

Or just go a Completionist Clonk. 17 Cleric/2 Monk/1 Fighter Human.