Damage!

[Son_of_the_South]

A fellow Sorc in an eHard VoN said he scored 5,000 points of damage recently (I think it was cold) against Velah (think he was Water Savy). Im pretty sure he said it was with dots too (so it must have been Niacs). Also pretty sure on EHard she (Velah) doesn't have any cold vulnerability (apart from the curse he would have thrown of course).

I'm certainly not doubting him but wondering...how?? I have Belashyhrra's Sceptre (with the Galciation & Major Ice Lore version) have all my Ice enahncements maxed and have only ever seen a Polar Ray (as an example) do just under 3,000 points. What am i missing here?? (I have a Corrosion/Acid Lore in the other hand as acid is 2nd line)

I've read other Sorc bio's that say they've done anywhere from 5-11,000 points.....This usually seems to be lightning damage though. Should i drop Water and go Air?? What gear should i have to get these figures?

[HastyPudding]

Epic destinies were no doubt involved. A sorcerer can reach massive damage with the draconic destiny in any savant, most notably water and air.

Water has always been known for very high damage, considering polar ray is the game's best single-target nuke; cone of cold and freezing sphere are nothing to laugh at, either. Water savant is a solid, strong choice to go for sorcerer. It's not very good in the low-mid levels due to high numbers of skeletons, but very strong late-game.

Air savants also have very high damage output, more-so than the other savants, including water, in fact. Sure, water has the excellent polar ray, but that's a single spell. Air savants are about burst damage; spamming spells quickly and remorselessly. Chain lightning, lightning bolt, and ball lightning cast in rapid succession kills hordes of mobs faster than any other savant; it's not as sp efficient as tossing down a firewall or acid rain, but things will drop very quickly. The downside is air is completely and utterly reliant on evocation DC's. If you don't have high DC's, you're not going to have a fun time as an air savant, especially in the expansion.

That being said, you have to go all-or-nothing with your main element. Alchemical clickies, potency scepters, '**** mastery' items, evocation/conjuration items, etc, etc, etc. ToD sets also help savants. The draconic epic destiny will boost your raw damage, the magister will boost your DC's; either or is up to you, depending on what you think you need.

As far as 5k damage on a DoT, that's a very high extreme. That's what people call a 'lucky crit' because you certainly can't consistently hit that high with DoTs. I've certainly never seen or heard of a DoT crit go above 2.5kish.

But 5-10k critical hits with non-DoTs is easily done with the draconic destiny and decent gear. Polar ray can easily achieve 10k hits, and a lightning bolt that procs a 'double hit crit' that isn't evaded can total 10k damage. Draconic destiny SLA's have been known to easily hit 2-4k on non-crits and 6k+ very easily.

[shadereaper33]

I don't remember the specific number, but my current high score on my sorc is in the 9800 damage range. I am an Ice savant with heavy cold damage enhancements from draconic incarnation. I haven't twisted in anything from another destiny yet, and there is still a bit of room to improve on my gear as well. I believe the spell was the draconic energy burst that hit that hard, though I don't remember the state of the mob exactly. I think it was stunned, but I don't remember if I had hit it with my awaken weakness ability or not.

[Son_of_the_South]

Thanks for the info.

So what are the "Par" Evocation Dc's at Epic (EHard) level for an Air Savant then?

[HastyPudding]

Thanks for the info.

So what are the "Par" Evocation Dc's at Epic (EHard) level for an Air Savant then?

Pre-Update 14, 40 was common. With the expansion I'd wager that 44+ is for decent DC's, but 50 is optimal, and you'll probably never have enough to be super effective on EE. It's difficult to achieve without sorcerer past lives, but an air savant really relies on those DC's, especially since many drow and spiders in the expansion have improved evasion.

Also of note, a human makes for a better air savant than a WF; point in fact, that they have 2-3 more potential DC's.

[Son_of_the_South]

Pre-Update 14, 40 was common. With the expansion I'd wager that 44+ is for decent DC's, but 50 is optimal, and you'll probably never have enough to be super effective on EE. It's difficult to achieve without sorcerer past lives, but an air savant really relies on those DC's, especially since many drow and spiders in the expansion have improved evasion.

Also of note, a human makes for a better air savant than a WF; point in fact, that they have 2-3 more potential DC's.

Yeah i thought it would be in the 40's, im not far off then.

Yes a human can get their DC's higher, no doubt, but they cant heal (repair) themselves as fast but i guess that's another debate entirely :-)

[Inouk]

A fellow Sorc in an eHard VoN said he scored 5,000 points of damage recently (I think it was cold) against Velah (think he was Water Savy). Im pretty sure he said it was with dots too (so it must have been Niacs). Also pretty sure on EHard she (Velah) doesn't have any cold vulnerability (apart from the curse he would have thrown of course).

I'm certainly not doubting him but wondering...how?? I have Belashyhrra's Sceptre (with the Galciation & Major Ice Lore version) have all my Ice enahncements maxed and have only ever seen a Polar Ray (as an example) do just under 3,000 points. What am i missing here?? (I have a Corrosion/Acid Lore in the other hand as acid is 2nd line)

I've read other Sorc bio's that say they've done anywhere from 5-11,000 points.....This usually seems to be lightning damage though. Should i drop Water and go Air?? What gear should i have to get these figures?

All the Savants are good, choice is strictly your preference, but I wouldn't personally choose based solely on achieving some big, rare number on a (double) crit. IMO Water is the best overall choice due to having the following criteria all covered well:
1) high end DOT for bosses (Niac's tied with Eladar's and Divine Punishment for best in game)
2) a persistent area DOT (ice storm)
3) a hard hitting area nuke (Otiluke's is one of the best, cone of cold almost as good)
4) a hard hitting single target nuke (polar ray is one of the best)
5) some no save, no SR spells when needed (All of the above except Otiluke's qualify)
6) the ability to do some untyped damage when needed (ice storm)
7) not having too many high end mobs immune or highly resistant

No other Savant covers all the bases as well as water, though some of them excel more in certain areas (air and fire can technically do more damage to mobs without immunities, earth make better CC casters). But Air and Fire run into a lot of late game immunities, Earth and Fire lack good DOTs for bosses, Air lacks an AoE DOT spell (and Earth's lacks for duration) and really any spells without reflex saves.

[Nerveya]

All the Savants are good, choice is strictly your preference, but I wouldn't personally choose based solely on achieving some big, rare number on a (double) crit. IMO Water is the best overall choice due to having the following criteria all covered well:
1) high end DOT for bosses (Niac's tied with Eladar's and Divine Punishment for best in game)
2) a persistent area DOT (ice storm)
3) a hard hitting area nuke (Otiluke's is one of the best, cone of cold almost as good)
4) a hard hitting single target nuke (polar ray is one of the best)
5) some no save, no SR spells when needed (All of the above except Otiluke's qualify)
6) the ability to do some untyped damage when needed (ice storm)
7) not having too many high end mobs immune or highly resistant

No other Savant covers all the bases as well as water, though some of them excel more in certain areas (air and fire can technically do more damage to mobs without immunities, earth make better CC casters). But Air and Fire run into a lot of late game immunities, Earth and Fire lack good DOTs for bosses, Air lacks an AoE DOT spell (and Earth's lacks for duration) and really any spells without reflex saves.

You forget that most Sorcs (if not all) specialize in TWO elements as opposed to one. They also can effectively gear for damage in both with the same numbers excluding Prestige and Epic Destiny (Draconic Mainly) element-specific passives and actives. This is largely to make sure they aren't one-trick ponies, but also to give them more flexibility when it comes to situations like, say, immunities. So I'll comment on your answers in a number-based format:

1) If you aren't using both Niac's and Eladar's as an Ice Savant, reroll.
2) Earth/Air savants can get nearly the same damage with Ice Storm that you can with no ranks in Draconic secondary tree buff.
3) Earth/Air/Fire have many more and hit far harder.
4) Polar Ray is the best, I think. Not entirely sure.
5) Again, if you are only Ice Savant and nothing else, reroll. You done messed up.
6) See points 2 and 5.
7) Ice and acid are the best for end game now, I think. Though none of the mobs (save for wisps) really call for only Ice damage in specific.

As I said in many of my responses, if you aren't Primary/Secondary Sorc... you messed up. The point is to cover the inherent weaknesses of your prestige line with spells from another so that you don't hit situations where you aren't useless. Which is why Air/Earth Savants can take Ice Storm/Polar Ray/Niac's, still do around 75-85% of an Ice Savant's DPS with them, and not have any of the problems that they normally would if they were 'pure'. However, it is very difficult to go the other way around if you don't have DCs. A Sorcerer that dumps DCs can not effectively splash another prestige's bread-and-butter spells if they don't have them to actually make them hit.

These reasons, coupled with the fact that Ice Savant has no glaring advantages other than its lack of disadvantages, makes the Ice Damage line actually the best line to SECONDARY instead of primary--because they can effectively cover up other prestige's weaknesses, leaving only the advantages left.

Speaking of advantages... There's also more to put on the plate here:

Air Savants have:
1) Far more burst AoE Damage (as an above poster said)
2) Element-Specific, moderately reliable CC from an SLA.
3) Far more maneuverability (and thus survivability) through Wings.

That being said... Most Sorcerers I know are Ice Savants. Why? Simply because Ice Savant is:
1) Very easy to gear
2) Very easy to play
3) Very reliable in raid situations
4) Very consistent with damage

I'm not saying that you need past lives to get through the game on a Fire/Earth/Air Savant... believe me. But if you're high-end geared (top .5% at least), max your DCs with destinies, have a 32-36 point build... you can do it. An Ice savant mostly just needs potency sticks, levels in draconic, some decent gear you can get off the AH, and......that's it. Not being DC reliant is great lol.

There are tradeoffs to both prestige lines, but it is very clear that Ice and Air are the most useful, reliable, and powerful at the moment. As such, that is why most people are one of these splashed with the other. If you want to solo all the EH/EE you want as a squishy? Go Air Savant/Ice Secondary. If you want to raid a lot, yet still solo EH content without being a WF? Go Ice Savant/Air Secondary. WF Ice Savant can solo pretty much every EE you want with enough Mnemonic pots.

[Inouk]

You forget that most Sorcs (if not all) specialize in TWO elements as opposed to one. They also can effectively gear for damage in both with the same numbers excluding Prestige and Epic Destiny (Draconic Mainly) element-specific passives and actives. This is largely to make sure they aren't one-trick ponies, but also to give them more flexibility when it comes to situations like, say, immunities. So I'll comment on your answers in a number-based format:

1) If you aren't using both Niac's and Eladar's as an Ice Savant, reroll.
2) Earth/Air savants can get nearly the same damage with Ice Storm that you can with no ranks in Draconic secondary tree buff.
3) Earth/Air/Fire have many more and hit far harder.
4) Polar Ray is the best, I think. Not entirely sure.
5) Again, if you are only Ice Savant and nothing else, reroll. You done messed up.
6) See points 2 and 5.
7) Ice and acid are the best for end game now, I think. Though none of the mobs (save for wisps) really call for only Ice damage in specific.

As I said in many of my responses, if you aren't Primary/Secondary Sorc... you messed up. The point is to cover the inherent weaknesses of your prestige line with spells from another so that you don't hit situations where you aren't useless. Which is why Air/Earth Savants can take Ice Storm/Polar Ray/Niac's, still do around 75-85% of an Ice Savant's DPS with them, and not have any of the problems that they normally would if they were 'pure'. However, it is very difficult to go the other way around if you don't have DCs. A Sorcerer that dumps DCs can not effectively splash another prestige's bread-and-butter spells if they don't have them to actually make them hit.

These reasons, coupled with the fact that Ice Savant has no glaring advantages other than its lack of disadvantages, makes the Ice Damage line actually the best line to SECONDARY instead of primary--because they can effectively cover up other prestige's weaknesses, leaving only the advantages left.

Speaking of advantages... There's also more to put on the plate here:

Air Savants have:
1) Far more burst AoE Damage (as an above poster said)
2) Element-Specific, moderately reliable CC from an SLA.
3) Far more maneuverability (and thus survivability) through Wings.

That being said... Most Sorcerers I know are Ice Savants. Why? Simply because Ice Savant is:
1) Very easy to gear
2) Very easy to play
3) Very reliable in raid situations
4) Very consistent with damage

I'm not saying that you need past lives to get through the game on a Fire/Earth/Air Savant... believe me. But if you're high-end geared (top .5% at least), max your DCs with destinies, have a 32-36 point build... you can do it. An Ice savant mostly just needs potency sticks, levels in draconic, some decent gear you can get off the AH, and......that's it. Not being DC reliant is great lol.

There are tradeoffs to both prestige lines, but it is very clear that Ice and Air are the most useful, reliable, and powerful at the moment. As such, that is why most people are one of these splashed with the other. If you want to solo all the EH/EE you want as a squishy? Go Air Savant/Ice Secondary. If you want to raid a lot, yet still solo EH content without being a WF? Go Ice Savant/Air Secondary. WF Ice Savant can solo pretty much every EE you want with enough Mnemonic pots.

I think we agree on pretty much everything. My Ice savant was Air secondary (really force line secondary, air tertiary). Force line is a great secondary for water as it covers their very few weaknesses (mostly things that you MUST have disintegrate for). And yes, I agree, you must load Niac's and Eledar's. And yes, I always recommend Ice as secondary if you don't take it as primary. Only point I might disagree on is:

3) define many more and much harder? Air gets lightning ball (not as good as otiluke's) and Chain lightning (which is better I'll agree), so that's as many and hits a little harder due to double strike on chain lightning... I did say in my summary that air and fire can hit harder though. Fire gets DB Fireball and Meteor storm, and those are the main reason to take fire, along with heat death which does massive damage. My point here is merely that ice doesn't lack for a good hard hitting AOE nuke, they have 2 in fact, or any other must haves. Earth? I disagree here, they get acid splash and.....? You could count Acid rain I guess, but technically it's an area dot (sort of in between) Earth falls behind Ice here IMO.

Still, as I mentioned, all the savants are good and choice is strictly preference. I was merely advising the poster that IMO it's not worth switching to air so he can see a 10k crit because NOT getting 10k crits does NOT make you useless, and that water is very serviceable and arguably the best choice (and my personal preference).

[Purkilius]

17.000 dmg with dragon breath, water savant, copied the combat log and pasted in party chat so I have witnesses.

[Inouk]

17.000 dmg with dragon breath, water savant, copied the combat log and pasted in party chat so I have witnesses.

Cool. Mind posting the pic? Also, mind detailing all of the things affecting your damage for the OP, like enhancements, gear, ED selections, etc? His post was asking HOW, so some details on how would be nice.

[knockcocker]

I think we agree on pretty much everything. My Ice savant was Air secondary (really force line secondary, air tertiary). Force line is a great secondary for water as it covers their very few weaknesses (mostly things that you MUST have disintegrate for). And yes, I agree, you must load Niac's and Eledar's. And yes, I always recommend Ice as secondary if you don't take it as primary. Only point I might disagree on is:

3) define many more and much harder? Air gets lightning ball (not as good as otiluke's) and Chain lightning (which is better I'll agree), so that's as many and hits a little harder due to double strike on chain lightning... I did say in my summary that air and fire can hit harder though. Fire gets DB Fireball and Meteor storm, and those are the main reason to take fire, along with heat death which does massive damage. My point here is merely that ice doesn't lack for a good hard hitting AOE nuke, they have 2 in fact, or any other must haves. Earth? I disagree here, they get acid splash and.....? You could count Acid rain I guess, but technically it's an area dot (sort of in between) Earth falls behind Ice here IMO.

Still, as I mentioned, all the savants are good and choice is strictly preference. I was merely advising the poster that IMO it's not worth switching to air so he can see a 10k crit because NOT getting 10k crits does NOT make you useless, and that water is very serviceable and arguably the best choice (and my personal preference).

Also interested in some of these points. The last time I played an Air Savant (prior to U14) survivability was good
due to knockdown immunity and Wind Dance. However, I found Air Savant to be most DC dependent. Also Chain
Lightning did not double strike and most definitely had a CL20 cap. This, along with the unreliable targeting,
made it inferior to Otiluke's in my book. Has this changed?

[Purkilius]

Cool. Mind posting the pic? Also, mind detailing all of the things affecting your damage for the OP, like enhancements, gear, ED selections, etc? His post was asking HOW, some some details on how would be nice.

no pick sorry

Just normal cap gear ToD set clickie on, DI everything effecting dmg maxed, cold ap maxed, draconic fury on, but I have not seen these number recently only thing that has changed is that going from frozen tunic tier 3 to spider-silk robe but I have a superior cold stick!

in a hurry writing this could explain better later maybe...

[Son_of_the_South]

Thx for the feedback guys. Some good stuff in here.

Nerveya, you say "5) Again, if you are only Ice Savant and nothing else, reroll. You done messed up." I think you may mean something different to the way i am interpreting this as a Sorcerer can ONLY be one Savant at a time. I think you might be referring to Element enhancement lines?? If you are then yes, I am Water with Acid secondary (and Air tertiary for Eladars and Ball). I think most Sorcs understand this (I also use two sceptres - one being Belashyrra's , the other spec'd for Acid - but then you know this because i mentioned it in the original post.....)

Also "(Nerveya)Though none of the mobs (save for wisps) really call for only Ice damage in specific." I think you mean force for the Wisps - http://ddowiki.com/page/Will-o%27-Wisp

I would disagree with the statement "none of the MOBs really call for only ice damage in specific (sic)" as it depends on what quest you're running. If we're talking Epic then in ADQ Ice becomes very good. Having said that, Fire seems to be pretty good in the FR's stuff.

People always say ice is best end game but this isnt entirely true. A Water Savant has a tough time in Shavarth with many MOBs having resistance.

Thank you all for the input. Ill see how the damage progresses with the Draconic Destiny.

[knockcocker]

Also interested in some of these points. The last time I played an Air Savant (prior to U14) survivability was good
due to knockdown immunity and Wind Dance. However, I found Air Savant to be most DC dependent. Also Chain
Lightning did not double strike and most definitely had a CL20 cap. This, along with the unreliable targeting,
made it inferior to Otiluke's in my book. Has this changed?

CL does still look capped to me:

With Air Savant III and +120 spellpower (enhancement + BoP) only (no meta. feats or equipment) average
damage over 20+ casts was 254:
254 / 2.2 = 115

This equates to Chain lightning being capped at CL20. We're getting a +3CL boost in the above data from the
+3MCL from AiS III. (avg. of 23d3 + 69 is 115)

With AiSIII + DI5 -> 150 spellpower (enhancements + BoP + Draconic) - again, no other spellpower boosts,
average damage over 20+ casts was 324:
324/2.5 = 130

e.g. we're now really casting at CL26 - we're getting two boosts to MCL from AiSIII and Draconic Spell
Knowledge.

As a final control, I also repeated the tests as Fatesinger L5 and was casting at CL30. The damage was identical
to casting at CL26 (e.g. only the +3MCL from AiSIII is helping us). Also confirmed the bug Shade has discovered
where we are all now 1 caster level short (in 15.2) as they took it away from the first rank but forgot to add it
to the final rank as per the release notes.

In conclusion, Chain Lightning is the same damage as Otiluke's but, IME, suffers far more targeting issues.

All testing was done on 15.2 on Lammania.

[Spisey]

(Combat): You hit Blood Plate for 8,286 points of electric damage. using draconic line / air savant dragon breath.

Swapped to Shiradi and got a random effect for 6000+ light damage on Harry spamming mm and force missile a couple of weeks ago.

[Tid12]

(Combat): You hit Blood Plate for 8,286 points of electric damage. using draconic line / air savant dragon breath.

Swapped to Shiradi and got a random effect for 6000+ light damage on Harry spamming mm and force missile a couple of weeks ago.

Didn't you quit? :P

That number is pretty. People saying they got 16k+ with a DBreath use all they can to max that number = non-sustainable buffs/not-doable-very-often situations.

They are using:

- Draconic Fury: 4 minute cooldown
- Eardweller: Meh. 1 min clickie
- Sigil of Battering Spellcraft: 45 Spell Power, noone in their mind would use this for normal questing EE, if you don't move you are dead.
- Helpless mobs: +50% damage
- Mobs weak to their element: for Air savant, mobs in Into the Deep underwater, for Cold savants Fire mobs etc.

As you can see, to get pretty numbers you have to have stars aligned and certain situations that let you do that once per month maybe.

The number Spisey posted is pretty much what people get usually, ranging from 8k to the low 10-11k.

[karieaeew]

Now I enjoy with Air Savant and I would like to add trivial stuffs to this nice thread in the view of Air.

1. In Caught in the Web Epic Elite, Air Savant is best choice IMO.

Because:
Immunity to trip gives great survivability to Air Savant in the rain of Cometfalls Mistresses cast.
Lolth having immunity to ice, Air Savant is best DPS vs. Lolth. (though Boss of 1st option has immunity to electric XD)

Fire Savant might be second choice, due to bigger DPS against undead (Drow and Spider Souls).

2. Damage Dice of Chain lightning might be 20d3+45 according to my investigation. This is irregular (should be 20d3+60), though Cyclonic Blast has same damage dice.

3. As some poster indicated, almost all Air Savant Spell depends on DC. But Evocation Augmentation/Draconic Spell Augmentation (Electric), which reduces reflex save 10, is extremely useful for Air Savant.

[spectroum]

Didn't you quit? :P

That number is pretty. People saying they got 16k+ with a DBreath use all they can to max that number = non-sustainable buffs/not-doable-very-often situations.

They are using:

- Draconic Fury: 4 minute cooldown
- Eardweller: Meh. 1 min clickie
- Sigil of Battering Spellcraft: 45 Spell Power, noone in their mind would use this for normal questing EE, if you don't move you are dead.
- Helpless mobs: +50% damage
- Mobs weak to their element: for Air savant, mobs in Into the Deep underwater, for Cold savants Fire mobs etc.

As you can see, to get pretty numbers you have to have stars aligned and certain situations that let you do that once per month maybe.

The number Spisey posted is pretty much what people get usually, ranging from 8k to the low 10-11k.

yup i got a 33.5k dmg couple weeks ago when i was trying to beat the max arcane dmg :P but that is too rare to see anyway. Fun thing happened to my yesterday at a EHchrono where i reassigned my DI ED and got energy burst t2 instead of blue dragon breath to see it and it hit CAD for 7k (can hit more since i didnt have fury on) :P that was cool since u can spam energy burst more often and more reliable than blue dragon breath

Swapped to Shiradi and got a random effect for 6000+ light damage on Harry spamming mm and force missile a couple of weeks ago.

heh ye i got that 6k light dmg too..shiradi is SO fun!

Air Savants have:
2) Element-Specific, moderately reliable CC from an SLA.

you know electric loop was SO awsome when u had stay frosty/good on and you had an additional 50% chance to hamstring trash prior to daze and ofc deal additional cold/light dmg


Btw my sorc is Air Savant and since i went for max dps is cold specced also for max dots and nuke spells, i found this the best combo (air-cold) adding high survivability with wings+KD immunity (if only spiders couldnt trip u... ) and beeing a WF maximizes that survivability (thats my opinion at least)

(We were running a hard citw with the guild once and i was kiting the portal keepers while the others beating down lolth and a glabarzu (or w/e is called) came on me and did that antigrvity-blown off thingy on me. I used wind dance+flyby attack+wind dance again and i barely made it to survive the fall :P Air savant ftw! )