DDO > Neverwinter

[Thrudh]

Really its not so much a choice of which MMO is better these days, as it is finally a glaring truth that the table top is where we all should stay, where the code of the Dice and the honor of a single roll saving the party is never forgotten.

Great comment.

I wish I had a PnP group in my area...

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

How is this going to work in a persistent world when I can take the items from one dungeon and use them forever going forward?

How are they handling loot and exp?

Until I play it for myself I can't be certain, but they are very aware of the obvious exploitation potential (forget potential, it will be like flies to sh__).. They will be using an algorithm based on # of mobs, quality of mobs, and other quest design factors. Cryptic will be in charge of what quality of loot will drop. Also, quest locations can vary but must be dictated, so as to avoid the chance of the secret Monty Haul style loot exploitation.

In all, I'm not convinced yet that exploiters can not exploit, but I am sure that the Foundry is being designed from the ground up to be much harder to exploit than in past efforts. The policing will rely on Cryptic however. We are going to have to see what final decisions get made, but the Foundry WILL be released before the closed beta in limited circles to test all aspects, including this topic.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Sounds like a good idea to keep xp and treasure out of the designer's hands.

Now what about risk vs. reward vs time spent? Can I make a two-room dungeon that one can complete in 40 seconds? Is end-reward based on difficulty or time spent in dungeon? Do the devs have to manually set rewards and xp for every submitted dungeon?

Monty Haul quests. They appear to be in at this point, as they were in STO Foundry, but they are getting hell for it in inner circles as well as on the Neverwinter forums. There's also a volunteer review process which must be completed before any quest can go live. So I expect to see movement here to handicap the loot based on time it takes to complete the dungeon. As you can imagine there's LOTS of grey here so it's simply to early to tell at this point.

[dragons1ayer74]

Sounds like a good idea to keep xp and treasure out of the designer's hands.

Now what about risk vs. reward vs time spent? Can I make a two-room dungeon that one can complete in 40 seconds? Is end-reward based on difficulty or time spent in dungeon? Do the devs have to manually set rewards and xp for every submitted dungeon?

Again from what I have seen the main rewards will come from encounters, defeat the encounter get some xp and some loot. So yes it looks like you could make a one room dungeon with one encounter and a quest objective, and make it very quickly too. There are far too many unknowns until people can start playing with it. Opening content creation up to the world there will be people that try to exploit the system, and will likely succeed. Quest End rewards the producer alluded to a “Chinese menu” type deal ala pick one form here which is very unclear, to me it seems quest rewards will be very minor.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Really its not so much a choice of which MMO is better these days, as it is finally a glaring truth that the table top is where we all should stay, where the code of the Dice and the honor of a single roll saving the party is never forgotten.

AMEN, Brother Karavek. Say it!

[Missing_Minds]

Star trek actually did use the foundry system, and it did get some high praise from players who worked hard using it to make some great ST lore driven adventures. However these stories often got bugged and broken with each update to the game and unlike devs paid for their time, havign thier work invalidated frequently made more players jsut stop bothering with it then waste time on something that would be wiped out a week or two later and need to be rebuilt from scratch

One thing to note. Unless there was a drastic change, the Foundery system of STO will NOT be the foundery system of NWN.

So don't expect backward compatibility.

[jandhaer]

I dont care what people say it looks like or how they think people will exploit this or that.

If its truely free and not completely P2Win Ill play it.

If its made well Ill play it more.

If its really fun ill play it A LOT.

nuff' said.

[Grosbeak07]

I dont care what people say it looks like or how they think people will exploit this or that.

If its truely free and not completely P2Win Ill play it.

It won't be. They will need to make money.

If its made well Ill play it more.

It won't be. Not as a DDO fanboi, but as someone who has played Cryptic games.

If its really fun ill play it A LOT.

Possible.

nuff' said.

Response in a Sun-shiny Yellow.

[Thrudh]

If its truely free and not completely P2Win Ill play it.

What world do you live in where a company can spend $20 million developing a game and then release it without trying to make some money off it?

Where did you get this belief that says games should be free for you?

[jandhaer]

What world do you live in where a company can spend $20 million developing a game and then release it without trying to make some money off it?

Where did you get this belief that says games should be free for you?

I live in a world where some games are quite a a bit MORE F2P then others claim to be.

and I never said games Should be free for me, their the ones labeling it as F2P

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I dont care what people say it looks like or how they think people will exploit this or that.

If its truely free and not completely P2Win Ill play it.

If its made well Ill play it more.

If its really fun ill play it A LOT.

nuff' said.

Truely free? No. All content will be absolutely free. However, consumables and vanity will cost. There will be moochers (not calling you one, yet) but they are expecting many will pay something. If the game is attractive, that much is practically guaranteed in today's mmo culture.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Response in a Sun-shiny Yellow.

Do your homework, the game will be free, there is no subscription model planned at all. They are gambling, but that's a safe gamble if the game is good.

Remember, in this type of game you have many that want all the shinies, they want easy buttons, they want vanity. And just about anything that saves them time.

Pick any two from my short list and they should make money.

[jandhaer]

content is all i really worry about that is the game to me, not a fan of vanity BS im not a teeny bopper so the hello kitty armor kit looses its allure to me and I dont buy consumables in DDO and wouldnt plan doing it there either, so that doesnt affect me :-)

[Grosbeak07]

Do your homework, the game will be free, there is no subscription model planned at all. They are gambling, but that's a safe gamble if the game is good.

Remember, in this type of game you have many that want all the shinies, they want easy buttons, they want vanity. And just about anything that saves them time.

Pick any two from my short list and they should make money.

I don't buy it.

Yeah I know what they are marketing, I know they don't have a subscription model but bottom line is vanity stuff alone won't make money.

By introducing user generated content off the bat, it takes the pressure off the company. They won't have to sell you content, because they will be making it at a snails pace (see CO or STO). You will be doing it all for them! (at least that's what they hope) And that will be fun for a bit and you will have a core group of people who make the best of it, but I think in general the game will be a disappointment.

[jandhaer]

wither the glass be half empty or half full, WHO CARES ..burp.. i need another round HUZZAH !!!


this is just turning into pos attitudes vs neg attitudes, never thought id see the day the forums have come to this QQ

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

content is all i really worry about that is the game to me, not a fan of vanity BS im not a teeny bopper so the hello kitty armor kit looses its allure to me and I dont buy consumables in DDO and wouldnt plan doing it there either, so that doesnt affect me :-)

I could care less about vanity items as well, but there is something to be said of paying an artist or artists for their time and hard work. I know I will support an artist if I appreciate their work (be it music, movies, traditional/modern art, whatever), and there are many others who do the same. In the mmo world companies know full well everyone doesnt see it that way, and sadly moochers, who always want something for nothing, are part of the process (aka cost of doing business).

I really dont see a problem in paying a little for consumables, as well as supporting the better dreamweavers (Foundry authors).

[ThreeEyedBob]

wither the glass be half empty or half full, WHO CARES ..burp.. i need another round HUZZAH !!!


this is just turning into pos attitudes vs neg attitudes, never thought id see the day the forums have come to this QQ

Then you must be new to the internet, Sir!

I think the pro/con is divided between the old jaded gamers who know what they have in DDO with all its good stuff and bad stuff.

Its easy to talk a big game, but you have to deliver also.

[jandhaer]

Then you must be new to the internet, Sir!

I think the pro/con is divided between the old jaded gamers who know what they have in DDO with all its good stuff and bad stuff.

Its easy to talk a big game, but you have to deliver also.

you sir must be new to the forums as you missed your sarcasm check :P

[jandhaer]

I could care less about vanity items as well, but there is something to be said of paying an artist or artists for their time and hard work. I know I will support an artist if I appreciate their work (be it music, movies, traditional/modern art, whatever), and their are many others who do the same. In the mmo world companies know full well everyone doesnt see it that way, and sadly moochers, who always want something for nothing, are part of the process (aka cost of doing business).

very true there is still music/movies (even games like this one were i have spent ALOT of money 3 years of vip along with xtra TP purchases etc, all though sadly I will not be doing that anymore as the shape things are in and the direction things are going, I speak with my wallet but i digress) etc I buy and pay to go to see when I really like them, when I could easily get it all on the webs for free :-)

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I don't buy it.

Oh I dont believe it 100% either. There's plenty of wiggle room and grey area when you speak of pay-2-win. If they dont get greedy up front, they may be on to something.

But I have ZERO doubt they can pull a profit on vanity and consumables alone.

We'll just have to wait and see the decisions they make. Its silly to cross them off before they even announce what will be offered.