Warforged caster for endgame?

[Lycurgus]

Greetings folks,

I’m coming upon what may be a final wizard life (for now at least, I’ll rage-TR eventually), and wanted to get some input regarding the build’s potential for epic elite content and/or suggestions regarding how to improve its function in epic elite.

The reason I’m starting this thread is because the vast majority of threads on wizard viability at endgame focus on drow/human palemasters. Some of that information translates, but I frankly enjoy playing as a cc-focused warforged AM. You could consider the build a hold-bot, but I usually solo or group with a small select group of friends and am swinging a Lit2 having a fun time. That said, comparing drow PMs vs WF AMs, the combined effects of base stats, gearing options, and PREs introduce some inescapable differences which seem like they have more of an impact in epic elite content. There is no +3 docent, for example, which means the +3 insight to int can only go in the trinket. In turn, that prohibits the litany. Yugo pots used to be usable by WF AMs…I’m not sure I’d be comfortable with less than 125-140% fortification in what I’ve seen of epic elite unless I was dancing around the periphery of combat trying to not get hit….which defeats the purpose of being warforged.

My rough and tumble WF enjoyed being able to tank and solo Lailat on EH. I’m really starting to wonder if he has a purpose in EE.

His relevant stats are as follows:
Spell pen: 53

20 heroic levels
5 epic levels
6 3x wizard past lives
2 2x favored soul past lives
8 feats: spell pen, greater spell pen, epic spell pen
2 enhancements
3 magister
3 draconic twist
2 bard twist
2 item
53


Int= 52 Int

18 base
5 levels
3 enhancements
2 capstone

8 docent
3 trinket
1 slotted
+3 tome
+2 ship
+6 ED
+1 ED twist
52 int = 21 int mod


Enchantment DC: 50

10 base
9 spell level
21 int mod
2 spell focus and greater spell focus feat
2 enhancements

2 greater spell focus item
3 Magister ED
1 Phiarlan ship buff
50 total


Conjuration DC: 45

10 base
9 spell level
21 int mod
1 cleric past life

1 spell focus feat
1 enhancements

2 greater spell focus item
45 total


These numbers seem abysmal to me. Gearing doesn't change it much, although spell pen can be boosted by alchemicals from LoB.


Is there any way to improve this while remaining warforged?

[Faent]

Feather of the Sun doesn't play WF. That's why they got screwed.

[Lycurgus]

Feather of the Sun doesn't play WF. That's why they got screwed.

I'm actually concerned that is the truth. Hence, is there any point to being WF in a final life? Self-healing burst damage is a perk, but is it enough of a perk?

[scoobmx]

the numbers look fine to me. i play a WF sorc endgame as an enchanter and i can land almost every hold on EE except vs drow. seeing as how my spell pen is maybe 10 lower than you and my dc is maybe 4 lower, i don't see how you would have a problem.

[Faent]

I'm actually concerned that is the truth. Hence, is there any point to being WF in a final life? Self-healing burst damage is a perk, but is it enough of a perk?

Frankly, I'd go Human Palemaster now. The last update brought WF and DC casters a bucketload of suck.

[Lycurgus]

Frankly, I'd go Human Palemaster now. The last update brought WF and DC casters a bucketload of suck.

Yep, that's exactly the advice I'm trying to avoid. I am well aware that there is a massive amount of information as to how drow or human palemasters do great. Thanks for reiterating.

The question is how to make WF casters work in EE content.

Making a first-life drow, half-elf, or human palemaster succeed in epic elite is stupidly easy. Do you have any advice which is pertinent to the question?

[Faent]

Do you have any advice which is pertinent to the question?

The advice I gave you was pertinent to *this* question:

I'm actually concerned that is the truth. Hence, is there any point to being WF in a final life? Self-healing burst damage is a perk, but is it enough of a perk?

Making a first-life drow, half-elf, or human palemaster succeed in epic elite is stupidly easy.

Well, if you think that's the case, your WF should have no problem. Just do whatever the first life Human Palemaster does to own Epic Elite and you'll be fine.

[Kinerd]

What difficulty are you having, specifically?
-Your spell pen looks very much good to go: not everything is a Drow Priestess, and even then you'll succeed much more than you fail.
-Hold isn't as effective as kill, true, but that's not a problem with warforged.
-Nobody can land every spell on everything. There will be things that save against your Web and against your Hold, the trick is learning who throws rock, you'll be able to get them every time, and work in some kills. A 43 Necro DC is plenty effective if you choose targets wisely (or I suppose intelligently).

[Lycurgus]

What difficulty are you having, specifically?
-Your spell pen looks very much good to go: not everything is a Drow Priestess, and even then you'll succeed much more than you fail.
-Hold isn't as effective as kill, true, but that's not a problem with warforged.
-Nobody can land every spell on everything. There will be things that save against your Web and against your Hold, the trick is learning who throws rock, you'll be able to get them every time, and work in some kills. A 43 Necro DC is plenty effective if you choose targets wisely (or I suppose intelligently).

Those are really good questions and I appreciate your taking the time to phrase them.

I don't play to pwn the game. I mostly enjoy helping friends. One of the best gaming moments for me was having a friend say "holy *****, did you REALLY just hold all those drow?!" in epic OoB. Not, did you just Wail those guys? I cc-ed, my friends had fun, and it was a blast. I get the appeal of a necro spec, I do. But, I personally enjoy my friends having fun.

I'm worried that warforged can't cc in epic elite. I've tried to describe my build, which should provide avenues to advice. I am walking into a final wizzie life...

I'm really starting to hate this build, which sucks 9 lives in.

[Therrias]

No reason you can't play a WF necro AM, if you're not having fun slinging the CC.

[loren9109]

Wf archmage is still very strong imho; if wf didn't look like how they do I would make my end build a wf....

Your sla's are so cheap that even if they fail the first time you can always cast another. You can also debuff more without worrying too much about your sp. I don't think pm's have such luxury.

As an arcane in EE you simply do not wanna take melee hits anyways, so you'll probably be jumping around regardless of your fort being 150ish or 90ish... Unless you find a way to fit in reasonable PRR etc which I don't think is easy either on pm or am. So I would still drink yugo pots on EE. That's +1 dc.

I think you're missing +1 int at lvl24 and +1 int in epic feat (or I missed something) and that's another +1 dc.

Not having to stick with spidersilk equivalent means you can make use of something like epic diabolist docent (+8 int and +2 insight int slotted elsewhere - and you can still use litany!). Another +1 dc web. (Of course if you're lucky enough to find a +3 dc one hander the docent is not needed.)

If still not enough draconic twist another +2 web dc...

(Two more cleric lives another +2...)

52+ dc enchant spells with heightened, quickened and even enlarged 1sp hypno as debuff. Add in crushing despair and mindfog if needed. Near unlimited use of long duration 3sp otto dance... In non-drow quests where high spell pen is not required you can also switch to draconic line twisted with sense weekness from fury of the wild and combine with mass hold and you'll probably nuke better than sorcs.

50-52+ dc web costing 3 sp; can be heightened, quickened and even enlarged. No spell pen requirement and works on orange named.

Seems to me that my pm will hate you...

[Kinerd]

Those are really good questions and I appreciate your taking the time to phrase them.

I don't play to pwn the game. I mostly enjoy helping friends. One of the best gaming moments for me was having a friend say "holy *****, did you REALLY just hold all those drow?!" in epic OoB. Not, did you just Wail those guys? I cc-ed, my friends had fun, and it was a blast. I get the appeal of a necro spec, I do. But, I personally enjoy my friends having fun.

I'm worried that warforged can't cc in epic elite. I've tried to describe my build, which should provide avenues to advice. I am walking into a final wizzie life...

I'm really starting to hate this build, which sucks 9 lives in.

WF are the best CCers for wizards, because the 1 DC you lose by not being drow you give right back by not using Necro spells as a PM, and fleshy AM is obviously right out. You also have...
-SLA Web
-SLA Hypno
-SLA Resistible Dance (which ordinarily I'm not a huge fan of but if you want to CC that much then it's great)
...over the PM as far as CC goes.

Now, yes, EE OoB (and SR equivalent) is a tough row to hoe, but you'll lose a lot more than you'll gain going elf to shore up your spell pen. Every melee loves Hold (but not to be Held, the selfish blankety blanks), but you have so many cheap CC options that you'll lose going PM that I think you'll be just as upset there. One of the loveliest things about Web is that it gives you aggro, so even if you only get 50% on the first pass, you can kite that 50% back through while the melee are pounding on the Webbed contingent, then the remaining 25%, and so on.

[teh_meh]

These numbers seem abysmal to me.

Fin, there is nothing abysmal about 53 spell pen, 52 INT, an Ench DC of 50 and a secondary school DC in the low 40's.
On the contrary, for someone who solos and has, thus far, avoided very end game raiding...those numbers are pure rock star.

Don't put a negative connotation on the term 'holdbot' either. You take extend for 5 minute haste, hold trash in EE and melees will name their baby robots after you.