Scammers putting junk on the AH.

[zwiebelring]

Free market, bi&#es!


If someone wants to buy something useless or overpriced, more power to whoever just made some plat.


Calling it "scamming" is a very, very big stretch considering you can't really do any convincing/communication etc via AH...at all.

Usually scammers use...you know...some type of scam. Overpricing something isn't a scam, it's just bad buisness.

Unless someone happens to buy it, in which case it is very good buisness.


I highly doubt the devs are banning people for overpricing items on the auction house. And rightfully so, the only crime being commited when someone puts an aspect crystal on there for 500k is the crime of stupidity if someone buys it.

I got an example, which actually is scamming people. Browsing through the belts you saw many exceptional CON +1 stat plus and add skill for a fairly high price. Then right in their middle, ordinary +1 enhancement CON plus same skill for the same price if not higher.

People who want to rip off newbies will always exist.

[bigolbear]

What's wrong with that ? +5 tools are very, very good ! Especially for low-level characters ! I think I once sold a few of them myself. - But I rather put them into the guild chest because I have no use for them (apart from my Artificer).

nothing wrong with sellign +5 tools, there is somethign 'underhanded' with selling indivivual ones in the hope that some poor sod will not notice its not a full stack of 50. If they were priced at 1/25th or so the price of a regular stack of 50+5tools then fine.. but they werent. it was a scam. And no it hasnt cought me im just sick of having to wade through the **** to get what im lookign for.


On the subject of naming the person who posted the aution: fair comments all, i was wrong in that suggestion - you have pointed out many way it would be bad. thankyou for bringing me to my senses in this... i have many ideas... some of them are good. this one clearly wasnt

[sk3l3t0r]

Just curious about this approach and if people would consider this "scamming" I would call it more "middle-manning"...something that is very common in the "real world"

I haven't tried it yet in DDO but seems like worthwhile way to make some plat. on a low level toon with limited resources. Also keep in mind this is a time consumming process, you have to visit the pawn brokers reguarly and pick out the items that you feel could sell on the AH at a higher price listed by the Pawn Broker. In my mind you are earning your plat by going through the effort of looking for deals with the Pawn Brokers and middle manning them to the seller (through the AH) at a markup for your efforts. Much like what happens in everyday situations. People buy items from garage sales and yard sales and list them on e-bay, at a markup for their efforts.


Example:
Buy a +1 stat item (INT, STR, CON, DEX, etc ...) off a pawn broker for ~100-200 Plat.

List on AH for 1k plat.

The reason why I am thinking this is because I typicaly will sell on the AH stat items of +1 to +5 at 1k plat per "+"...so if I loot a +2 charisma cloak from a low level chest, I will list it on the AH for 2k plat and a buyout of 2,001 plat and list for 72 hours. Majority of the time these items sell on Buyout in less than 72 hours. WHy do I do this? Well...when I first started playing I didn't know Pawn Brokers existed so I used the AH for everything, buying and selling. Months later I discovered pawn brokers and through observation on prices the pawn brokers buy / sell for I realised that there is potentioal for middle manning items.

The way I see it I am providing a service for the community by visiting the pawn brokers, buying up items that have been dumped as trash loot and listing them on the AH at a reasonable price for my effort (subjective of course). The AH will take a 30% cut of my profit of course, and I will be left with a reasonable amount of profit that I would not consider gouging in any way since I am not over-inflating the price and selling at comparable prices to the Pawn Brokers (with a little markup for my effort of course) on the AH.

Thoughts? Comments ? Concerns?

[danotmano1998]

Just curious about this approach and if people would consider this "scamming" I would call it more "middle-manning"...something that is very common in the "real world"

Thoughts? Comments ? Concerns?

That's the nice thing about the game. If you have fun doing stuff like this, go for it!
There are lots of ways to spend your time. Some like to RP. Some like to quest. Some like to farm. Some like to craft. Some like to barter/broker deals.

So long as you're having fun it's all good, I'd say.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

nothing wrong with sellign +5 tools, there is somethign 'underhanded' with selling indivivual ones in the hope that some poor sod will not notice its not a full stack of 50. If they were priced at 1/25th or so the price of a regular stack of 50+5tools then fine.. but they werent. it was a scam. And no it hasnt cought me im just sick of having to wade through the **** to get what im lookign for.

Thank you for your explanation.

[LOOON375]

Im going to sell my Club of the Silver flame and see if I can get someone to bite.

yo ho, yo ho

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

Example:
Buy a +1 stat item (INT, STR, CON, DEX, etc ...) off a pawn broker for ~100-200 Plat.

List on AH for 1k plat.

Thoughts? Comments ? Concerns?

Ethical.

I'm rather cynical in this, so be warned :

This is like going into a shop somewhere in africa, asia or Soth America where people are REAL poor - buy them away their rice, corn or whatever - and then travel to the U.S., Europe or so and sell that for a big fat fortune.

The result is, and this is happening even right now in real life ! - that we are literally buying awyy the food from others for money - and for money profits - and they starve to death because we've bought away their food.

Yes, this is still The Free Market : buying away the food others depend on for a living. This is the Free Market . we have the power, the money, and this amount of money, this amount of power appears to allow us to buy whatever we need or want. Even organs from poor people who sell literally sell their livers and kidneys in real life because they just don't know from what to buy their next meal or rent from. We have the power, the money, and it seems to allow us to buy ANYTHING - even whole lives ! - Children get stolen and sold to European and U.S. people who can't get a child because they are infertile. In real life, some people are so poor they in fact sell away their children ! Imagine that !

And the money, and the power that seems to come from that, it appears to enable us to buy what we want. Even killers.

The "Free Market" doesn't exist. It's a lie. It's an illusion. It's an Illusion maintained by those who profit from it. There is nothing "Free" there.
This market is nothing but "The Power Of The Stronger One". The ones who have the power - and the money - will always be the oneswho will get what they want - even the law. Those who win are those who can afford the best lawyers. and the best lawyers cost money. So only those win who have the money.

In the end this means that everything will be ruled and bought by those who have money, and with that power. Poor ones will merely be slaves.

And this is a direct assault at Democracy, a direct attack at Humanity.

We have erected the principles of Humanity on the assumption that Everyone Is Equal.

But the "Free Market" follows a different princiople, as shown by George Orwell in his famous "Animal Farm" story : "Some are more equal than others" !

The Free Market isn't about Equality. The Free Market isn't about Humanity. It is about the power of the strongest.

And this is what I call (and is already known as) "Social Darwinism".

Me, I prefer Humanity. It gives me a better feeling.

[Karavek]

Actually biggie here hit it right on the head. Your name should indeed be put on the AH next to things you are selling. Anonymity helps no one as much as being out in the open would.

Another MMO I played had two great features. First they put your name on all items you crafted, the second put your name up on the AH next to any item you posted.

This actually helped keep the economy balanced as those professional farmers and crafters quickly became recognized and highly sought after, and forced those who tried to charge excessive prices to either lower them or become forgotten. I in my first month on that MMO gained server wide recognition among lower lvl players as I made and sold well forged weapons at prices much lower then the typical gold hungry greedy SOBs. I was saving up to buy my own house and ship in less then a month, while most players on the game more then a years still struggled to buy a smaller home in a less impressive land plot.

It however did alot more then just let me make good coin and rep in game. It also helped my guild ferret out a very low sort of person.

One day I was crafting when I recieved a tell saying how impressive an item I created was and the price for it on the AH was so low, could I make something for them on special order. I at first as always took it for the compliment it was, but then something odd hit me, the item he was describing was indeed one of the better swords I had recently wrought. However it was also one I had put in the guild chest for any member in need of a good weapon.

I quickly went to the AH and looked up my name, and found sure enough a number of items made by me for sale by another, the name of an officer from my guild who I also knew was RL friends with one of the 5 guild founders.

Trying to be sure, I approached another of the founders, a fellow crafter, one of about a dozen of us in the guild. Although I was only a few weeks in the guild I had gained alot of respect from my fellow crafters especially, but many in general because of my frequent chest donations and willingness to craft custom items to the best of my ability for just material costs. Zalak the drow bard sword maker was low lvl but not low in social standing you might say.

This game was vanguard btw, another eq clone that shriveled in the shadow of wow, but it had alot of quality UI aspects like the ones I spoke of and they lead to a better community. Just like players get a reputation for their play, so to should they be able to build one based on their ability to craft or by being a respectable merchant.

[sk3l3t0r]

Ethical.

I'm rather cynical in this, so be warned :

This is like going into a shop somewhere in africa, asia or Soth America where people are REAL poor - buy them away their rice, corn or whatever - and then travel to the U.S., Europe or so and sell that for a big fat fortune.

The result is, and this is happening even right now in real life ! - that we are literally buying awyy the food from others for money - and for money profits - and they starve to death because we've bought away their food.

Yes, this is still The Free Market : buying away the food others depend on for a living. This is the Free Market . we have the power, the money, and this amount of money, this amount of power appears to allow us to buy whatever we need or want. Even organs from poor people who sell literally sell their livers and kidneys in real life because they just don't know from what to buy their next meal or rent from. We have the power, the money, and it seems to allow us to buy ANYTHING - even whole lives ! - Children get stolen and sold to European and U.S. people who can't get a child because they are infertile. In real life, some people are so poor they in fact sell away their children ! Imagine that !

And the money, and the power that seems to come from that, it appears to enable us to buy what we want. Even killers.

The "Free Market" doesn't exist. It's a lie. It's an illusion. It's an Illusion maintained by those who profit from it. There is nothing "Free" there.
This market is nothing but "The Power Of The Stronger One". The ones who have the power - and the money - will always be the oneswho will get what they want - even the law. Those who win are those who can afford the best lawyers. and the best lawyers cost money. So only those win who have the money.

In the end this means that everything will be ruled and bought by those who have money, and with that power. Poor ones will merely be slaves.

And this is a direct assault at Democracy, a direct attack at Humanity.

We have erected the principles of Humanity on the assumption that Everyone Is Equal.

But the "Free Market" follows a different princiople, as shown by George Orwell in his famous "Animal Farm" story : "Some are more equal than others" !

The Free Market isn't about Equality. The Free Market isn't about Humanity. It is about the power of the strongest.

And this is what I call (and is already known as) "Social Darwinism".

Me, I prefer Humanity. It gives me a better feeling.

I love this sort of thought process !!! Have had many a cold ones discussing the very things you describe in your post with like minded individuals. I enjoy these topics and like to see and hear the varied opinions and perspectives.

Unfortunately the monetary system that is in place in the real world favours the elite and to ensure that the poor stay poor and oppressed and that the rich get richer. Middle class families? What middle class families...society is being squeezed, and the middle class is dissapearing. The richer elite (the 1%) control the majority of the planets natural resources and wealth while the rest of us (the 99%) are left begging for scraps. I really don't want to go down that path and get into an "Occupy" type discussion...I've grown tired of that topic.

Fractional reserve lending is a prime example of how what was a good idea (currency to facilitate trade) was corrupted to favour the elite.

Money in it's simplest form was invented to make trade easier, to replace the barter system we had previously, so that fair trade and exchange of goods and services could be standardised. Sadly interest was invented and we now have the mess and corruption at the expense of humanity that you see all around us today.

Orwell's book 1984 is also a good read, I suspect you have read it as well. If you have a chance, read the book "Pawns in the Game" by William Guy Carr. What an eye opener that was for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Guy_Carr

Now that we have completely derailed the thread...I would be curious to see what other ideas are floating around in your head...seems we could have a great conversation and exchange of ideas !!!

Peace!!

[Zorth]

Just don't do it. I don't.

It may make a newb quit the game.

Don't make newbs quit the game, we need them to be Elitists one day.

All jokes aside, if we know that something that is useless to the game and un-bound and a glich in our inventory, and we know is usless, it should be cherished and not sold or simply dragged out of inventory and Deleted, if you put it on the AH you are an a s s hole, pure and simple.

[Postumus]

The "Free Market" doesn't exist. It's a lie. It's an illusion. It's an Illusion maintained by those who profit from it. There is nothing "Free" there.

It's called a 'free market' because the prices of goods and services are determined by supply and demand rather than controlled by the government, not because you get stuff for free.

[Bunker]

A mmo is designed around the sale of soemthing that has zero value. So why would this act in the game be policed, if the game itself is not?

Something to think on.

-Bunk

P.S. Keep in mind that "entertainment value" is not included in my above comment. However, if you consider any in game item of actual physical value, then you have already failed. Pixels hav eno value, and the creator will not, and should not police the sale of pixels, when they are the creator of said pixels. Happy gaming.

[Shadow7375]

Im going to sell my Club of the Silver flame and see if I can get someone to bite.

yo ho, yo ho

we had one of those on Orien's AH for 1.000.000 pp buy out .. not sure if it ever sold or not ...

[Todesnymphe]

Just curious about this approach and if people would consider this "scamming" I would call it more "middle-manning"...something that is very common in the "real world"

The way I see it I am providing a service for the community by visiting the pawn brokers, buying up items that have been dumped as trash loot and listing them on the AH at a reasonable price for my effort (subjective of course). The AH will take a 30% cut of my profit of course, and I will be left with a reasonable amount of profit that I would not consider gouging in any way since I am not over-inflating the price and selling at comparable prices to the Pawn Brokers (with a little markup for my effort of course) on the AH.

Thoughts? Comments ? Concerns?

I see no problem with it. If people don't look at the pawn brokers themselves and thus don't notice the "better" deals themselves, you have every right to beat them to it and try selling the ittems in the AH.

Also, I want to point out to everyone: This is an investment of time of a real person. This is something that easily gets lost in the argument - We all play for our entertainmen. That is, we spend time. I think our time is the most precious commodity. So ask yourself: How much plat is your time worth?

[Todesnymphe]

Ethical.

I'm rather cynical in this, so be warned :

This is like going into a shop somewhere in africa, asia or Soth America where people are REAL poor - buy them away their rice, corn or whatever - and then travel to the U.S., Europe or so and sell that for a big fat fortune.

The result is, and this is happening even right now in real life ! - that we are literally buying awyy the food from others for money - and for money profits - and they starve to death because we've bought away their food.

(- cut the rest of your post so the quote isnt so long -)

The Free Market isn't about Equality. The Free Market isn't about Humanity. It is about the power of the strongest.

And this is what I call (and is already known as) "Social Darwinism".

Me, I prefer Humanity. It gives me a better feeling.

1.
Regaring real life, I agree. As a tangent what really makes me feel sick is that - for example - certain agricultural companies hold "copyrights" on grain seeds and force poor farmers in the third world to buy them. The seeds are genetically manipulated so the grain from the seeds doesn't in turn produce seeds that can be planted again. thuis making sure the famrers have to buy new seeds every year again. That's a true perversion of nature for the sake of capitalism.

2.
But regarding DDO your argument is not valid:
The easiest accessible pawn brokers and AH are only a few second's walk away from each other (market). So everyone who is interested in items could go take a look at the pawn brokers first and only if they don't find what they're looking for, head over to the AH. Apparently, many people are too lazy to look at the pawn brokers first or the concept of "middle-manning" wouldn't work, because the players interested in the items would have bought them from the pawn brokers already most of the time.

So this is entirely different from real life, where people in the third world rarely have a choice about whom to buy/sell from/to if they want to make a living.

3.
Also, I think the "capitalism" argument is hard to apply to a game played for entertainment. Personally, I wouldn't ever consider running back and forth between pawn brokers and AH. I don't even put ANY of my loot in the AH but sell it at the pub at the same time when I do repairs. I know I could sell better at the pawn broker and maybe a lot better at the AH. So why don't I do this? Simple reason: I don't want to use my REAL TIME to do it. I value 5 minutes of my time much higher than maybe a profit of 20k plat. I rather use these 5 mins to chat with friends or additional time to run a dungeon.

If someone uses their REAL TIME running back and forth trying to make a profit with pawn broker items that's apparently how they want to use their time for entertainment and fun. It's just a different way to enjoy the game. Definitely not my thing, but who am I to impose my ideas of "fun and entertainment" on them? I have to right to impose my ideas on them.