Necromancer / Archmage Final Endgame Items - Post Update 15 (At least 1 tr needed)

[BlueSilence]

Hey Dyna! No problem about late answers, Im pretty sure this has been a pretty week for many of us.

Not saying that the items I am talking about are better but I would like to point out better my reasoning.

*Darkstorm helmet has a green slot and Cloak of Flames has a blue slot, any could be used to slot heavy fortification making a Min II item less of a neeed.

*I really like EllisDee's advice on GS simplification. Two GS should be enough to cover HP and SP which you pointed as major goals.

*Agreed. Smoke screen is not the best guard, it was just an example about having a single +45HP GS with either full Dex Skills or full Con Skills (Undead Guard). I am still thinking about making an Enervation guard (al least for eH in the meanwhile). Losing 1 Dex/Cha skills should not be a huge loss.

*I was aware of the helmet's redundancy with Mabar's robe, so far I have only checked the 20th version so I kept messing around with my ideas after my previos post and found that other robes could be used but I wont ellaborate on that now.

*Generally, I would rather have more element boosts than swim, trap-the-soul guard, underwater, poison resist. Many of these effects, listed as minor in your build, are easy to cover one way or another.

I would like to reconsider what effects are really important and which ones can be left out. I understant you want to keep the gear swap-less by covering as much as you can but there are still things that palemasters are able to cover without need for gear, this is one of the PRE's attractiveness.

Looking forward to hear more opinions.

[DynaTheCat]

I HAVE MIN2 SLOTTED READ MY ITEMS CAREFULLY with 45hps gs and 150sp gs conc op which gives me +5cha skills +6 con skills. You really need to brush up on your reading skills and stop posting in such a rush to try to prove a point which your failing at which is your gear set is far far inferior.

Mabar is not out so please dont include items that dont exist yet as they are subject to change.

All the things you wrote... you edited into your post at a time and added all those additional items. You didn't provide a solid list of your build.

Mabar's has been out for a long time now. Every october. I am not here to hold onto a build. If your build is truly superior, I will edit my 1st post for it. However, you haven't proved anything. All you've done was spew your personal opinions on your items and disregard actual facts and stats.

I HAVE EVERY KIND OF SPELL POWER 120 WITH 12% crit x.50 why would i need greater arcane lore which is inferior? which part of that dont you understand? I have +3dc one handers of every type of the important ones necro/evo/enchantment.

You have every kind of spell power? So you're basically saying you have an inventory full of 1-handers that you keep swapping in and out every time you cast a different elemental spell.

GREAT. Then I have the best AC in the world as a wizard. Because every time I am about to get hit, I will pull out my full plate and swap back my robes

And, everytime I want to attack something, I'll take off my twilight and bash with my epic sword of shadows or cleaver.

You're not providing anything useful by saying, well; I lack evocation and enchantment dc, but; when I need it, I just swap in a 1-hander. I can just imagine you have a full hotbar full of 1-hander sets and you juggling weapons around. Great for you. Not great for other people.

The only 3 things you have that I dont is Superior false life 10hp which I more then cover in my extra 25hp from 1 con on litany and the extra con from con2 on my pdk gloves last time I checked 50hp>10hp. And boon of undeath which is totally useless in epic elite and not even required for EH I run around EH without blur or displacement without boon of undeath just auras running and never die. It would take me Red skulling myself or massive lag to die from incoming damage death aura ticks upto crits of 140 normal numbers in the 50-80ish range.
You also didnt take into account you have less int from wearing the planar focus vs litany which means more sp then the 25 less from having Wizardry IX Wizardry X.
If you need blindness and poison immunity and dex skills there is something wrong with your build....

Prove it. Prove your stats. Tell me where and when your stats outrank my build and what exactly you are doing. Make a serious stat by stat comparison and list out what you gain and what you lose.

You're saying, well; yeah, this stat is higher than mine, but you don't need that much anyways. And, yeah, but II can just cover that with my inventory full of swapped items. And, yeah; well don't need that stat because that's not an important stat anyway.

You're making a lot of excuses for where your build is lacking.

You haven't said anything but opinionated ideas that I try to make sense of. You need to be less stubborn and truly evaluate your build.

The current item build listed has been changed a lot since the beginning (In large part thanks to Sephiroth, for truly breaking my stubborn streak at first) And I plan for it to evolve for the better when new items come out.

You need to check yourself. When I first started this post, tt sucked that my item build was not as great as I thought it to be. Now, after all the changes, I can say it's a great build. You need to truly check your item build as well. I get it. It sucks. But get of yourself, and your build; and just calm down.

P.S
Please do not reply with whatever garbage auto item comparision generator your using to pass judgement on item and gear layouts for a end game palemaster. Read my all my replies and try to use your brain to read and comprehend what my posts say then maybe just maybe you will see how much your losing vs gaining nothing by being too lazy to switch weapons.

I don't have a auto item comparison generator. I actually take the time to understand what you are doing and what items are presented. Then I type out a list of what is truly gained and lost. I truly consider the changes and I actually present facts about the changes.

So, please; if you want to be productive instead of angry, present a viable list and comparison. Please compare your whole item build, with my whole item build. Then, let's talk again.

[SaIamander]

+1 pol

ever feel like this?

[K_0tiC]

Hi brickwall my name is head and im about to start bashing any time soon.

Look ive wasted enough of my time even bothering to give you intelligent replies so one last time for you lets see maybe I can do it in your language:

I HAVE MORE SPELL PEN THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE SP THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE INT THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE CON THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE HP THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE SPELL POWER THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE CRIT SPELL POWER THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE DCS THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE DCS TO OTHER SCHOOLS THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE DR THEN YOU
I HAVE MORE DAMAGE FROM MORE USEFUL SPELL THEN YOU

Anytime you wish to discuss it come find me in game since you play on my server or go look through my previous posts of my int/dcs/spell pen and compare it to your supposed superior build.

P.S AND MY MILKSHAKES BRING ALL THE BOYS TO THE YARD

62int 56necro 55spell pen 58 necro spell pen 3071sp 798hp 100% umd heal scrolls etc 58intim 70 odd conc 51 reflex save. Let me know which one of yours is higher.

[DynaTheCat]

Hey Dyna! No problem about late answers, Im pretty sure this has been a pretty week for many of us.

Not saying that the items I am talking about are better but I would like to point out better my reasoning.

*Darkstorm helmet has a green slot and Cloak of Flames has a blue slot, any could be used to slot heavy fortification making a Min II item less of a neeed.

Yap, yap, darkstorm is simply a no for me cuz the null/neg lore is overcome and taken care of by epic robe of shadows. I get that Magnetism and superior electric lore is great for eldar's dot.

Cloak of flames vs Mabar's night cloak? I dunno, it's probably a preference but I'd rather get the 10/dr good and the ghostly than fire dmg. But you are right, that cloak of flames would be a great cover for fire spell power if you do not desire mabar's night cloak.

Can also slot a heavy fort into bucaneer ring if wishes. With the 3 additional blue/green slots from all 3, you can cover all 3 unique slot skills listed on the 1st post. (natural ac, heavy fort, feather fall, etc).

*I really like EllisDee's advice on GS simplification. Two GS should be enough to cover HP and SP which you pointed as major goals.

True, you should be able to fit all hp/sp if you wish. I made my gs into dual affinities to cover CHA and dex which I find important. GS can really be altered to personal preference in this build.

Suggest slots are simply gloves, goggles, and helm.

*Agreed. Smoke screen is not the best guard, it was just an example about having a single +45HP GS with either full Dex Skills or full Con Skills (Undead Guard). I am still thinking about making an Enervation guard (al least for eH in the meanwhile). Losing 1 Dex/Cha skills should not be a huge loss.

True, enervations guard would be a great addition. Mayhap find a way to place in current build... mmm...

*I was aware of the helmet's redundancy with Mabar's robe, so far I have only checked the 20th version so I kept messing around with my ideas after my previos post and found that other robes could be used but I wont ellaborate on that now.

The main thing with mabar's is the awesome boon of undeath. It also covers the gap / need of major necro, high nullification, high superior void lore. I would sacrifice +1 int (litany) to have a viable build with boon of undeath.

*Generally, I would rather have more element boosts than swim, trap-the-soul guard, underwater, poison resist. Many of these effects, listed as minor in your build, are easy to cover one way or another.

Understood. Main covered in static build is null (robe of shadows), force(impulse), and acid (rock boots).

Not covered is Electirc, Fire, Cold.

I do suggest ring swap Epic ring of elemental Essences Is what I use at this time to take care of those needs... or at least boost them.

I should and can add a swappable clickie/item list to the first post.

Also, when CITW updates, you can choose an additional +120 spell power upgrade for a tier 3 twilight. I might choose a cold at that time.

I would like to reconsider what effects are really important and which ones can be left out. I understant you want to keep the gear swap-less by covering as much as you can but there are still things that palemasters are able to cover without need for gear, this is one of the PRE's attractiveness.

Looking forward to hear more opinions.

Yep, I always keep an open mind. If you have a proposed items, I can look through and check out a gain/loss list for ya.

Purpose of this thread is to explore not hinder. yap, I might not have gotten that at the beginning, but; I've gotten that for a while now.

Thanks for the reply.

[EllisDee37]

Yea ok lets compare your list one item at a time for best/better in slot

I just now realized how to pronounce your name, heh. I remember you from LeLoric's thread, and consider your setup the ultimate pale master. I think I have the basic premise right of the clear no-brainer parts:

(Head: Epic Darkstorm Helm)
Neck: Epic Torc
Wrist: Epic Demon Consort Bracers
Waist: Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Trinket: Litany of the Dead
Body: Spidersilk +3 insightful int
Weapons: Two LOB items, one with greater spell pen IX the other with arcane augmentation IX
EITHER goggles OR ring: lootgen +8 int

Would you agree with the above list (except the helmet) as the clear best-in-slot items that any ultimate endgame build should base their gear around? (The helmet by itself isn't clearly best in slot, but if you slot in the rest listed above it becomes best in slot as far as I can tell. Do I have that right?)

The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?

EDIT: I think I'd also put Epic Ring of the Mire as a clear choice; not best in slot, necessarily, but an item you really want to slot in if at all possible. Short of that, epic bramble casters I guess.

EDIT 2: One of those LOB weapons may get an alternative if gianthold ever goes epic, with a potential greater spell pen IX on an epic napkin. Which adds even more conflict to the cloak slot.

[K_0tiC]

I just now realized how to pronounce your name, heh. I remember you from LeLoric's thread, and consider your setup the ultimate pale master. I think I have the basic premise right of the clear no-brainer parts:

(Head: Epic Darkstorm Helm)
Neck: Epic Torc
Wrist: Epic Demon Consort Bracers
Belt: Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Trinket: Litany of the Dead
Body: Spidersilk +3 insightful int
Weapons: Two LOB items, one with greater spell pen IX the other with arcane augmentation IX
EITHER goggles OR ring: lootgen +8 int

Would you agree with the above list (except the helmet) as the clear best-in-slot items that any ultimate endgame build should base their gear around? (The helmet by itself isn't clearly best in slot, but if you slot in the rest listed above it becomes best in slot as far as I can tell. Do I have that right?)

The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?

EDIT: I think I'd also put Epic Ring of the Mire as a clear choice; not best in slot, necessarily, but an item you really want to slot in if at all possible. Short of that, epic bramble casters I guess.

Yep you have the right idea. Helm could be GS min2 if you dont need that green for asf-15% double lob setup isnt required just nice to hit the max numbers for things staff of the necromancer is only 2 lower and much less grinding and I have happened across some loot gen shields and armor with GSP9 lately so keep an eye out for one when you might need it for the quick spell pen bump and toss augmention on your lob main hand weapon choice the same result without having to grind out both lob items. Cloak wise its a toss up and having both is handy though you can fix the blur issue with a spell and the minus light damage from a pale rod with a simple switch to when hit with dp. This would leave you free for the bear cloak or mabar and perhaps one of the new coming spellpower & +2 to all dc caster orbs in the offhand that are on there way with u16.
But the things you listed arent going to get much better for in slot until something new is released so fit the neck belt bracers trinket body in and work around that to suit your personal needs. Lately ive considered dumping shroud hp item as 800 hp without primal is not useful out side of EE which I can easily just toss it back on.

[DynaTheCat]

I just now realized how to pronounce your name, heh. I remember you from LeLoric's thread, and consider your setup the ultimate pale master. I think I have the basic premise right of the clear no-brainer parts:

(Head: Epic Darkstorm Helm)
Neck: Epic Torc
Wrist: Epic Demon Consort Bracers
Waist: Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Trinket: Litany of the Dead
Body: Spidersilk +3 insightful int
Weapons: Two LOB items, one with greater spell pen IX the other with arcane augmentation IX
EITHER goggles OR ring: lootgen +8 int

Would you agree with the above list (except the helmet) as the clear best-in-slot items that any ultimate endgame build should base their gear around? (The helmet by itself isn't clearly best in slot, but if you slot in the rest listed above it becomes best in slot as far as I can tell. Do I have that right?)

The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?

EDIT: I think I'd also put Epic Ring of the Mire as a clear choice; not best in slot, necessarily, but an item you really want to slot in if at all possible. Short of that, epic bramble casters I guess.

EDIT 2: One of those LOB weapons may get an alternative if gianthold ever goes epic, with a potential greater spell pen IX on an epic napkin. Which adds even more conflict to the cloak slot.

If you follow his build Nae, you would need to use Adamantine Cloak for the +2 spell mastery or your build will not have any focus items. You would still lose the +3 evocation focus, +3 enchantment focus, and +3 necro focus in that build.

His solution to solve the +3 necro focus loss is to swap in "staff of the necromancer" when he needs it. It's okay for him to lose the 2 lobs in the meantime I guess. You would still be losing +3 evo & +3 enchantment bonus unnecessarily.

With the current build, you don't need Epic ring of the mire. You can use the 2/day stone skin clickie for 10/adamantine (Min II), keep a stone skin spell in your hotbar, or simply have the Mabar's night cloak that gives DR 10/good. Both 10 DRs are better than greater spear block. (Remember, DRs do not stack , 10/good & 10/ada will overtake 10/slashing greater spear block).

From what I see, Major stats you're throwing away are 1 dc from evocation, enchantment, and necromancy; losing boon of undeath; and losing max nullification +114; for a +1 profane int litany.

[EllisDee37]

If you follow his build Nae, you would need to use Adamantine Cloak for the +2 spell mastery or your build will not have any focus items. You would still lose the +3 evocation focus, +3 enchantment focus, and +3 necro focus in that build.

I addressed that specifically when I said: "The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?"

Both the dragon cloak and the spirit sight goggles are only +2 dc, though. Which items give +3 dc?

With the current build, you don't need Epic ring of the mire. You can use the 2/day stone skin clickie for 10/adamantine (Min II), keep a stone skin spell in your hotbar, or simply have the Mabar's night cloak that gives DR 10/good. Both 10 DRs are better than greater spear block. (Remember, DRs do not stack , 10/good & 10/ada will overtake 10/slashing greater spear block).

From what I see, Major stats you're throwing away are 1 dc from evocation, enchantment, and necromancy; losing boon of undeath; and losing max nullification +114; for a +1 profane int litany.

I've already explained why stoneskin isn't reasonable for torc charging. However, the mabar cloak as a swap is a solid idea.

Still, I prefer having DR always equipped, and the mabar cloak is clearly suboptimal in the cloak slot compared to the alternatives. It would be like putting on a SF necklace instead of torc for the spell absotption. Okay, maybe not that extreme; it would be like wearing that spell absorption ioun stone instead of an int trinket. (Litany or planar focus.)

[K_0tiC]

If you follow his build Nae, you would need to use Adamantine Cloak for the +2 spell mastery or your build will not have any focus items. You would still lose the +3 evocation focus, +3 enchantment focus, and +3 necro focus in that build.

His solution to solve the +3 necro focus loss is to swap in "staff of the necromancer" when he needs it. It's okay for him to lose the 2 lobs in the meantime I guess. You would still be losing +3 evo & +3 enchantment bonus unnecessarily.

With the current build, you don't need Epic ring of the mire. You can use the 2/day stone skin clickie for 10/adamantine (Min II), keep a stone skin spell in your hotbar, or simply have the Mabar's night cloak that gives DR 10/good. Both 10 DRs are better than greater spear block. (Remember, DRs do not stack , 10/good & 10/ada will overtake 10/slashing greater spear block).

From what I see, Major stats you're throwing away are 1 dc from evocation, enchantment, and necromancy; losing boon of undeath; and losing max nullification +114; for a +1 profane int litany.

Dont waste your time you will get better anwsers from a brickwall. Like always you do not even bother to read what he typed or what I typed: Helm, body, bracers, belt and trinket. Are these the only options you have for wearing gear on your wizard if so go TR and pick up the same others as we all have, guess your wizard does not have feet, fingers, eyes or a back.
Stone skin spell in a level 4 slot? What do you give up? Death aura, Negative energy burst, Ddoor, Crushing despair, 3 dot spells IS FW AR, enervation, fear, PK 10 useful level 4 spells without even getting into single target dps spells 2 are non optional I would go as far as saying 3 are non optional Death aura neb and ddoor don't see any space there for stoneskin.
Also last time I checked +1 from litany gives alot more then just "1 int" and on top of that 1 int moving you up a int mod equals omg wait for it! +1 dc to all spells wow imagine that.... So with that out of the what you lose you lost a whole nothing and gained 25hp from the +1con max 120 null is found on weapons in the ah and vendor daily.

P.S
Please do not roll any melee toons as you will be too lazy to swap weapons to break DR or greater banes to do more dps you will just run around with some inferior dps like min2 and make others carry you through content because it is just too hard to change weapons.

I addressed that specifically when I said: "The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?"

Both the dragon cloak and the spirit sight goggles are only +2 dc, though. Which items give +3 dc?


I've already explained why stoneskin isn't reasonable for torc charging. However, the mabar cloak as a swap is a solid idea.

Still, I prefer having DR always equipped, and the mabar cloak is clearly suboptimal in the cloak slot compared to the alternatives. It would be like putting on a SF necklace instead of torc for the spell absotption. Okay, maybe not that extreme; it would be like wearing that spell absorption ioun stone instead of an int trinket. (Litany or planar focus.)

You have the option of dragon cloak for your 2dcs or an off hand spell orb which will be out in update 16: Wizard´s Ward(Orb):+6 Enhan., spell power* 108, spell focus mastery +2, Spell pen. VIII, elemental absorption 5% (This is the normal version So I would expect hard to be 114 and elite 120spell power and spell pen9 possibly other goodies) So you can keep your favorite spell power inhand and main hand can go between +3s as required goggles could then be int 8 again or greensteel which means keeping pdk glvoes for the +2con.

Personally I dont rate the house p cloak as useful:
Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak: Greater Light Resistance (palerod/abbotrobes), Spell Absorption 5 Charges (Recharged/Day: 1) (great for all of 10seconds with a caster or 2 then useless till you stand in a tavern), Enhanced Hide/Move Silently +5, Spell Resistance (30) (redundant any SR spell that could possibly hit cannot because your undead), Blurry(can be selfcast), Empty Colorless Augment (have plenty of these every stat is covered in all the other gear) nothing on it I cant self cast and the light damage reduction from pale rod is plenty for EE.

Before the cloak came out I used spirit sight +2 evo was on my lob shield so everything was covered and there wasnt random loot gen 8int, now all that is changed (imagine that change!) The cloak is my go to for +2 dcs If I cannot be bothered to press a button and go from 1 weapon to the other +3 evocation isnt even important but I still keep it on me. So switching is at a minimum of necro 3 one hander + enchant 3 one hander (one of which has +18 uni +80potency if your feeling lazy and want to quick nuke something), lob weapons with the dragon cloak for lazy casting in easy button diffculties. Then a pair of Null 120 and a null +15 clicky for aura casting, elec and cold 120 12% for dotting and fire and acid 120 12% for firewall acid rain stacking. Must be hard to cycle 6 weapon sets in different pairs.

[EllisDee37]

Spell Absorption 5 Charges (Recharged/Day: 1) (great for all of 10seconds with a caster or 2 then useless till you stand in a tavern)

This part of the mirror cloak is actually much worse than that; it absorbs your aura until depleted.

I only consider the mirror cloak as having 30 light resist and a slot; nothing else on it seems relevant.

[Pilgrim1]

I don't understand why you say that the mabar cloak (especially the lvl 24 version) is sub-optimal.

dr 10, incorporeal 10, 2% dodge. These seam to be very good.

For my set-up I have been thinking about running a Lob shield (crystal of course) paired with a +6 acid of acid mastery (mostly because that's all i have).

And lastly canith crafting is a nice thing to find in one slot, you could craft something like +2dc of heavy fort with guild slot or something similar.

And Dyna, your gear plan on the front is... sub-optimal, just let it go and start over.

PS. Epic darkstorm helm looks good but if your using mabar docent like me, then it loses some of its shine.

[DynaTheCat]

Okay.... In what ways is my gear plan suboptimal. And how do I make it better?

If you guys are arguing against it, please provide some kind of alternative. Don't just say it's "sub-optimal" without providing your own solution or gear set (you're just expressing an opinion as a fact).

Please provide a gear list or changes and compare loss/gain/redundancy of item stats.

I want facts. Not opinions. What can I change to make it "not sub-optimal"?

If my gear suggestion is truly sub-optimal, I'd be more than happy to change it.

And yes, U-16 and gianthold content may change my gear list in the future, when it come around.

Once again, this is an evolving gear list. From what I see, the current gear list I have in the 1st post is... "most optimal".

[EllisDee37]

Neck: Epic Torc
Wrist: Epic Demon Consort Bracers
Waist: Epic Lion-headed Belt Buckle
Trinket: Litany of the Dead
Body: Spidersilk +3 insightful int
Weapons: Two LOB items, one with greater spell pen IX the other with arcane augmentation IX
EITHER goggles OR ring: lootgen +8 int

This is the optimal framework. Start with this and fill the rest in.

You're sacrificing intelligence and spell pen. Gear can get you +12 int and +5 spell pen. If your gearset does not, that makes it suboptimal pretty much by definition. (Yours is +11 int and +2 spell pen for level IX spells. Namely, wail. That's significantly suboptimal.)

The mabar cloak may end up being the right cloak, btw; it's hard to say. In a vaccuum, the dragon cloak is clearly better but if you don't need the spell mastery then the mabar one looks solid. I suspect the dragon cloak will end up being a better choice since if an epic napkin turns out to be great, it's a natural upgrade from the dragon cloak. Switching from mabar cloak to napkin would entail a pretty serious reworking.

[DrNuegebauer]

Okay.... In what ways is my gear plan suboptimal. And how do I make it better?

If you guys are arguing against it, please provide some kind of alternative. Don't just say it's "sub-optimal" without providing your own solution or gear set (you're just expressing an opinion as a fact).

Please provide a gear list or changes and compare loss/gain/redundancy of item stats.

I want facts. Not opinions. What can I change to make it "not sub-optimal"?

If my gear suggestion is truly sub-optimal, I'd be more than happy to change it.

And yes, U-16 and gianthold content may change my gear list in the future, when it come around.

Once again, this is an evolving gear list. From what I see, the current gear list I have in the 1st post is... "most optimal".

People have already provided alternatives, but you just pretend your setup is better, and ignore what they say....

[DynaTheCat]

I addressed that specifically when I said: "The cloak is the part I'm having the most trouble with. Specifically, Epic Phiarlan Mirror Cloak or Adamantine Cloak of the Dragon. If mirror cloak, I think spirit sight goggles become a natural fit, moving +8 int to ring. What are your thoughts on the viability of the mirror cloak?"

Both the dragon cloak and the spirit sight goggles are only +2 dc, though. Which items give +3 dc?

With his build, you will not have a +3 dc item. In my build, twilight provides the +3 evocation & +3 enchantment DC. Epic robe of shadows provides the +3 necro dc. You don't need to swap items to get all 3 major DCs.

If you follow the 2-LOB build, you will need to wear an Ada Dragon cloak for the +2 spell mastery's all round +2 dc.

If you want +3 necromancy, you will need to swap in a "staff of the necromancer" and lose your 2-lob stats.

If you want +3 enchantment and +3 evocation, you will need to swap in 2-one handers with evocation mastery and enchantment mastery. (You will then lose the +3 necro from your staff.)

You will never be able to have +3 evocation, +3 enchantment, & +3 necromancy all at the same time.

I've already explained why stoneskin isn't reasonable for torc charging. However, the mabar cloak as a swap is a solid idea.

Still, I prefer having DR always equipped, and the mabar cloak is clearly suboptimal in the cloak slot compared to the alternatives. It would be like putting on a SF necklace instead of torc for the spell absotption. Okay, maybe not that extreme; it would be like wearing that spell absorption ioun stone instead of an int trinket. (Litany or planar focus.)

Well, it's up to you. I find the 10/good DR covers most everything. If you're fighting a "good" mob that is bypassing your 10/good DR, then just supplement a stoneskin 10/ada in. MIN II will provide you with 2 free clickies. If that's not enough, then just cast it.

The gripe I have with Ring of the mire, is that it take up a ring slot that can be put to better use on other stats. If you can replace ring of the mire with something else, then why not do so and free up a ring slot?

Here's my lvl 4 spell list:

Stoneskin
Phantasmal Killer
Negative Energy burst
Death Aura
Dimension Door

Use scroll for fireshield.

From what I see, fireshield is a situational spell when you need the 50% absorb (in TOD shadow tank, or against Veleah).

Are there other lvl 4 spells you might want? Force missles? I kinda want that because I have a twilight... but if you're not using any +120 impulse items or greater arcane lore, there's no point in getting it.

You can always swap it in for the PK slot if you really want it and don't want PK. I personally use PK because I have a +2 illusion dc ring crafted and +3 fear dc from dragonic presence. It still works partially in CITW normal. But, I admit; PK can be replaced. And yeah, ice storm just for babiliths mayhap be nice replacement.

[DynaTheCat]

This is the optimal framework. Start with this and fill the rest in.

You're sacrificing intelligence and spell pen. Gear can get you +12 int and +5 spell pen. If your gearset does not, that makes it suboptimal pretty much by definition. (Yours is +11 int and +2 spell pen for level IX spells. Namely, wail. That's significantly suboptimal.)

Where am I losing +3 spell pen from?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Twilight,_Element_of_Magic
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Focus_of_Erudition

How does he have +5 spell pen? Are you already counting in epic gianthold items Greater spell pen IX?? (epic napkin?) Are those item stats confirmed?

[DynaTheCat]

People have already provided alternatives, but you just pretend your setup is better, and ignore what they say....

I have examined what they provided as an alternative and have provided stat per stat comparison of how their gear set up in inferior.

If you want to review it quickly and let me know how I can improve my gear set: That's all I ask for.

I will and do want to improve this gear list now and in the future if it's possible and viable. I will not replace my gear list for an factually inferior one.

[EllisDee37]

Where am I losing +3 spell pen from?

http://ddowiki.com/page/Twilight,_Element_of_Magic
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Focus_of_Erudition

How does he have +5 spell pen? Are you already counting in epic gianthold items Greater spell pen IX?? (epic napkin?) Are those item stats confirmed?

Ah, nice, I missed the set bonus. You're only missing 1 spell pen, not 3.

He's getting 5 spell pen from the two LOB weapons: one has arcane augmentation IX (+2) and the other has greater spell pen IX (+3).

This means you're missing 1 int and 1 spell pen, which is suboptimal.

[DynaTheCat]

Ah, nice, I missed the set bonus. You're only missing 1 spell pen, not 3.

He's getting 5 spell pen from the two LOB weapons: one has arcane augmentation IX (+2) and the other has greater spell pen IX (+3).

This means you're missing 1 int and 1 spell pen, which is suboptimal.

You're right. I have, since the beginning, sacrificed +1 int from profane litany for planar conflux to gain much more.

There was no way to put in litany's profane without sacrificing boon of undeath & planar conflux; simply because they both are trinkets.

So I guess the question is:

How much is the alternative build sacrificing for the +1 litany bonus & +1 spell pen (greater spell pen)?

Off the top of my head. The major stat loss is:

+3 necro DC (major necromancy)
+3 enchantment DC (major enchantment)
+3 evocation DC (major evocation)
Boon of undeath (robe of shadows)
Greater arcane lore for untyped dmg / force dmg (twilight)
+120 impulse (twilight)

Maybe if the +1 profane int adds a DC in a build, the top 3 losses can be remedied (assuming you're using Ada cloak for +2 spell mastery). The bottom 3 losses are a personal choice of how much that affects you. Albeit, not having a boon to provide an additional heal / dr would be a bad loss in my book.

I will take the model list for litany you provided up top and try to work something out.