Razing's 15 Bard 4 Fighter 1 Druid Warchanter

[jwukane]

This post is because a few people asked me to post my build with a full breakdown and gear setup. I am not doing this to get some epeen points. Clearly having all the gear and XP that I do is very grindy, but wanting to show that if you love playing a melee bard(like I do), that the dps potential can be pretty wicked.

I do think the 15 bard 4 fighter 1 druid is the best way to go for a melee bard war chanter. Build is similar to others but with a couple subtle differences that I feel go a long way in getting dps high. Having extra feats from fighter lvls is huge and the one level of druid IMO is the best bang for the buck dps wise. Also, has plenty of AP’s for extra goodies (compared to say 14 bard 6 fighter). While some like to take rogue and/or barbarian levels, I wanted to avoid them so that I could take 30% damage boost as a twist of fate. Build clearly doesn’t have evasion without rogue levels, but I personally don’t think its necessary as saves are pretty good and going for the most dps anyway. One level of druid gives rams might and extra spell points, both which are nice. Build (and other builds) allows you to take stunning blow, inspire excellence and overwhelming crit (I didn’t take however). Personal dps is very solid and add in 12 damage and +2 strength from songs (To get that would have to add 18 strength to twohanders and 26 strength to onehanders in order to get same damage increase) makes for a strong dps contributor in any party.

EDIT*** Ok so I guess you can take damage boost with rogue or barb levels if you dont take the enhancement, but one level of rogue or barbarian, doesnt match rams might (ok, at very very best situationally the rogue lvl, barbarian level is a millimeter lower, though cant cast. Anymore levels of something else wont get all feats, especially, unlike me, if you want overwhelming crit). If someone has something better A. start a thread B. post all dps numbers since this is for dps, not evasion and the like.

Not real familiar with posting so this surely could be formatted and/or done better,

Remember I am posting this mainly for some people to look over, but perhaps some people will find this interesting and/or informative. This is MY setup, gear and XP are kinda grindy (lol).

Past life Barbarian, Paladin

Starting stats--- I forgot about +1 exc con, so I would say to drop con to 15 and add 2 to Int or Wis.
Half-orc
Str 20 +6 level ups +3 tome
Dex 10 +3 tome
Con 16 +3 tome
Int 8 +3 tome
Wis 8 +2 tome
Cha 12 +3 tome

Feats---
Extend, past life barbarian, past life paladin, power attack, weapon focus slashing, weapon specialization slashing, improved critical slashing, two handed fighting, improved two handed fighting, greater two handed fighting, inspire excellence.
If you want overwhelming critical drop extend, weapon specialization slashing, and past life pally, then add cleave, greater cleave, and OC.

Enhancements---
Fighter haste boost 2, Inspired attack 2, Inspired bravery 3, inspired damage 3, Lingering song 4, Warchanter 2, Orcish extra action boost 3, Orcish power attack 3, Orcish melee damage 2, Orcish strength 2, Racial toughness 2, Improved perform 2, Bard song magic 2, Bard charisma 1, Fighter strength 1, Fighter toughness 2, Wand scroll mastery 1, Fighter tactics stunning blow 2.

Skills---
I put max into umd, perform, concentration, balance, and a few in haggle and jump.
Mine self buffed
Concentration 67
Balance 41
Haggle 36
Jump 43
Umd 50 , with no gear swapping
Perform 83, with Epic shimmering pendant, Magewright cloak, and +6 charisma skills belt

Destiny Fatesinger
Allure 2, Lucidity 2, Reign 3, Strength 5, Fragment of song 2, Bound fate 1, Grim fate 1, Turn the tide

Twists---- Sense weakness, 30% damage boost, Primal scream.

Gear---Forgot to slot exceptional con 1 (oh well)
Epic sword of shadows, force damage ritual, perma slotted with devil ruin
Epic helm of frost, proof against poison
Epic envenomed cloak, greater false life
Epic boots of corrosion, dex +6, good luck +2
Epic spare hand tier 3, exceptional wis 1, natural armor 4
Epic ring of stalker tier 3, con +6 , proof against disease
Tharnes goggles
Kyosho’s ring, strength +2, resistance ritual
Hide of Goristro, strength +8, stunning +10, AC ritual
Epic blasting chime tier 3, Int +6, protection +4, (IMO best guard, proc rate is sick, plus enhances primal scream, base AOE hit is ~800, crit for ~1500)


Stats self buffed (without tensers)

Hit points 708
Spell points 956
To-hit 77
Str 66 will be odd without primal scream
Dex 24
Con 38 will be odd without primal scream
Int 22
Wis 22
Cha 28

Saves (without tensers)
Fort 41
Reflex 34
Will 34

AC (for what its worth) with tensers = 55

Stunning blow DC----
10 base
28 strength mod (using 66)
10 from armor
5 epic spare hand
2 stunning blow enhancements
1 echoes stance dreadnaught
56 total
61 total with tensers and titans


Strength breakdown---
20 base
6 level ups
2 insight
1 exceptional
1 echoes legendary stance
1 glitter of fame
8 armor
3 abishai set
3 tome
2 orcish enhancement
1 fighter enhancement
2 rams might
2 yugo
2 ship
2 inspire excellence
5 destiny points
5 primal scream
66 total

4 tensers
6 titan grip
76 total (easy to scroll and 3 clickies is decent)

2 madstone 1 time
4 past life rage
82 total (I never do these)

If had a +4 strength tome could change destiny strength point to 6 to add +2 to strength.

Damage breakdown---
42 base (66-10)/2 x 1.5
10 weapon enhancement bonus
16 power attack
4 orcish melee damage
12 inspire courage
3 past life pally
2 rams might
2 ship buff
2 weapon specialization slashing
4 claw set
2 shintao set
3 grandeur

102 total + damage mod

7.5 with tensers and titan clicky (10/2)x1.5

109.5 total +damage mod

Could add 3 with 3 past lives of monk (I hate to tr so will never probably happen)

So with tensers and titans active this is what all damage effects looks like

Esos 5d6 + 109.5 + 1 force damage + 3% double strike +3% stacking attack speed (fragment of valor), + reign + sense weakness + 30% damage boost

Fun times= Turn the tide , lasts 38 seconds, plus use fighter haste boost 2, every 6 minutes (minus 38 seconds) of destruction.


Finally, remember I posted this for a few people that were curious about my stats, but I hope some others found this informative/interesting.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I never saw the attraction of weapon specialisation. I think I'd go 16 bard/1 druid/3 rogue on a horc maybe, the 2d6+3 SA/hit will go a lot further than the +2 damage and 2 feats that you get from fighter.

[jwukane]

I never saw the attraction of weapon specialisation. I think I'd go 16 bard/1 druid/3 rogue on a horc maybe, the 2d6+3 SA/hit will go a lot further than the +2 damage and 2 feats that you get from fighter.

I appreciate you response, but rogue levels dont allow for 30% damage boost, which is the point of this build, and sneak attack is very situational. Your build gives 10% damage boost or fighter haste 1, I will pass, going for max dps, not situational sneak damage, cause btw, sometimes(alot) i get agro. Also i stated that you could take overwhelming crit instead of some of my feats, i know my post is long, but if you actually look its all in there. What two feats do i lose?, For example 2d6 +3 sneak damage, =10 situational is not good as OC, in my case would be 12, damage a swing, or even if I dropped weapon specialization and extend, i like extend and 2 damage from weapon specialization gives in reality 4 damage a swing with crits and glancing blows, on bosses sneak damage is reduced so its pretty close. Factor in 30% damage instead of level one boosts from rogue, IMO your build is not more dps, though i will say it gives evasion, which is cool. I do like the 16 3 1, would be sick, Like everything all dependent on gear, playstyle, and preference.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I appreciate you response, but rogue levels dont allow for 30% damage boost, which is the point of this build, and sneak attack is very situational. Your build gives 10% damage boost or fighter haste 1, i will pass, going for max dps, not situational sneak damage, cause btw, sometimes(alot) i get agro. Also i stated that you could take overwhelming crit instead of some of my feats, i know my post is long, but if you actually look its all in there.

Yep I read it all. I think you made a mistake though. As far as I know, you only can't take damage boost in LD if you already have it from a heroic class - but if you don't take it then you don't have it, ergo, rogue doesn't exclude you from that particular twist.

If you took OC then that's one thing, but you didn't, therefore, 3 rogue is better (1 rogue is better when enhancement pass goes through).

Unless you're a dedicated tank then all the times where DPS actually matters - raids - the SA is much better. In quests the DPS loss is irrelevant compared to the benefit of evasion.

Part of my thinking is also setting up for an eventual 18/1/1 or 18/2 split when the enhancement pass goes through mind (soon, right?).

[jwukane]

Yep I read it all. I think you made a mistake though. As far as I know, you only can't take damage boost in LD if you already have it from a heroic class - but if you don't take it then you don't have it, ergo, rogue doesn't exclude you from that particular twist.

If you took OC then that's one thing, but you didn't, therefore, 3 rogue is better (1 rogue is better when enhancement pass goes through).

Unless you're a dedicated tank then all the times where DPS actually matters - raids - the SA is much better. In quests the DPS loss is irrelevant compared to the benefit of evasion.

Part of my thinking is also setting up for an eventual 18/1/1 or 18/2 split when the enhancement pass goes through mind (soon, right?).

10 sneak attack damage, 5 on most bosses is not the same as ~3.5 damage against bosses from weap special. I think you might by missing the drastic increase from 30% damage boosts over 10%, which i get to use 9 of and effects all my dannage mods and can be used all quest long and makes up way more than 1-2 sneak damage, though again i will say you get evasion. If your class can take the damage enhancement you are not eligible for it in dreadnaught regardless, taken or not.

[wax_on_wax_off]

10 sneak attack damage, 5 on most bosses is not the same as ~3.5 damage against bosses from weap special. I think you might by missing the drastic increase from 30% damage boosts over 10%, which i get to use 9 of and be used all quest and makes up way more than 1-2 sneak damage, though again i will say you get evasion. If your class can take the damage enhancement you are not eligible for it in dreadnaught regardless, taken or not.

Are you some sort of accountant? If you're going to halve the sneak attack due to fortification then you also have to halve the benefit that weapon specialisation is getting from criticals. Here, I'll show you: 2*19/20+2*2*6/2*.5=2.5 bonus damage vs 50% fort boss.

Regarding Damage Boost from LD on a build that has it granted in heroic levels:



I must say, it's pretty fricking inconsiderate to dispute this when you clearly haven't done your own testing, now I have to retake my 80 enhancement points due to your ignorance.

I do like the twist layout that you have and I can imagine that the full damage boost is better than haste boost I or II with an eSoS though helf with dual boost (haste boost II if you went to 4 rogue)/versatility:damage combined with rogue dilettante (so maybe 18 bard/1 druid/1 barbarian) would undoubtedly be more DPS in almost every situation and a better bard to boot.

But hey, thanks for playing.

[jwukane]

Are you some sort of accountant? If you're going to halve the sneak attack due to fortification then you also have to halve the benefit that weapon specialisation is getting from criticals. Here, I'll show you: 2*19/20+2*2*6/2*.5=2.5 bonus damage vs 50% fort boss.

Regarding Damage Boost from LD on a build that has it granted in heroic levels:



I must say, it's pretty fricking inconsiderate to dispute this when you clearly haven't done your own testing, now I have to retake my 80 enhancement points due to your ignorance.

I do like the twist layout that you have and I can imagine that the full damage boost is better than haste boost I or II with an eSoS though helf with dual boost (haste boost II if you went to 4 rogue)/versatility:damage combined with rogue dilettante (so maybe 18 bard/1 druid/1 barbarian) would undoubtedly be more DPS in almost every situation and a better bard to boot.

.

Admittedly I followed what DDO says (my interpretation atleast) instead of what it does (in regards to Damage boosts). Maybe i should reroll, lol. After giving you those props, you definetly arent calculating glancing blows into weapon specialization. 2 base damage, on bosses with crit 50% chance with esos 1/2 of (9 crit multipliers X2damage= 18/10 rolls) = 1.8/2 = .9 from crit on bosses. 50% glancing blow damage on 3 of 4 swings, 50 + 50 + 50/4 = 37.5 base damage a swing, 2 base X 37.5= .75 .75+.9+2= 3.65

Well admittedly I must not be able to read but may be an accountant, redo your math.

In regards to half elf, i have 2 and i have tried it on this guy, the lower +base damage even with fighter haste 4 and 25% damage boost at absolute best is equal short term and less damage long term. Again im talking if i switched it to my build, not some 20 strength 28 point build.

[cru121]

I like the way how this build focuses on DPS. It seems pretty formidable.

I am not sure, but it seems to me that this build would shine even more EITHER with a different epic destiny OR with TWF.

You have many static bonuses to damage (12? bard + 3 grandeur + 3 pally + 2 rams + 2 weapon spec + 4 claw +2 shintao, +2 ship, reign proc, turn the tide...). This screams to me: TWF

OR, ESoS+high strength => get mad with crits and cleaves, adrenaline, momentum swing or whatever there is for THF DPS.


That said, my bard is THF and Fatesinger, so I am not following my own advice. Also, this comes from a casual player with much less gear.

[taurean430]

15 bard levels I get. But could you please elaborate when you can why you took one druid level? What do you gain from that?

Now, I'm not asking to bash or pick at you. I run a 15bard/3fighter/2barb build that achieves 2 less str than yours. And does rather well.

[karl_k0ch]

15 bard levels I get. But could you please elaborate when you can why you took one druid level? What do you gain from that?

Now, I'm not asking to bash or pick at you. I run a 15bard/3fighter/2barb build that achieves 2 less str than yours. And does rather well.

Ram's Might.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Admittedly I followed what DDO says (my interpretation atleast) instead of what it does (in regards to Damage boosts). Maybe i should reroll, lol. After giving you those props, you definetly arent calculating glancing blows into weapon specialization. 2 base damage, on bosses with crit 50% chance with esos 1/2 of (9 crit multipliers X2damage= 18/10 rolls) = 1.8/2 = .9 from crit on bosses. 50% glancing blow damage on 3 of 4 swings, 50 + 50 + 50/4 = 37.5 base damage a swing, 2 base X 37.5= .75 .75+.9+2= 3.65

Well admittedly I must not be able to read but may be an accountant, redo your math.

In regards to half elf, i have 2 and i have tried it on this guy, the lower +base damage even with fighter haste 4 and 25% damage boost at absolute best is equal short term and less damage long term. Again im talking if i switched it to my build, not some 20 strength 28 point build.

Fair call on glancing blows, I tend to overlook those as my the only THF'ing character I played at cap for a long time relied on twitching. Afaik though the formula for that would be 2*.5*19/20+2*.5*12*.5/20=1.25 which, when added onto the 2.5 from my original post makes 3.75? Not sure why we have a difference.

There's a lot to like about that 18 Bard/1 Druid/1 Barbarian split actually, sure, no evasion like your build but 18 bard levels (for the enhancement pass), sprint boost, a few rages, +10% move speed etc. The big drawback of course is missing haste boost, maybe save it for U16 when you can twist Sense Weakness and Haste Boost.

Half-elf has more short term damage via Versatility: Damage and more long term damage via Rogue Dilettante. If you can come up with a situation in which you don't have SA for a very long time ... well, power to you, but, it doesn't strike me as a realistic game situation.

[karl_k0ch]

There is one point worth mentioning on this particular split: Druidic Oath. You can only cast Ram's Might when you are non wearing armor which is made of metal. Unless you want to swap your armor every 5 minutes, this allows a few number of armors: most of them being light leather armors, but also Leaves of the Forest, Terrorweb Chitin Breastplate, as well as Cormyrian Red & green Dragon Armor (Light & Medium).

Not a no-go per se, but it's worth mentioning that 1 Drd's Ram's Might doesn't come entirely for free.

[dennisck2]

Despite all the 'debating' in this thread, this is a very solid build. Now I'm not the greatest player in the world, but I have personally run with this gentleman on this toon in EDA, and he more than surpassed my 18/2 Barb/Ftr in both kill count and flat out destroying sh!t. And switching from dps to perform in EVoN6, he more than pulls his own weight. Thanks bro, for posting the build. I have often wondered how you set it up and now I know. Looks like I know how to get my 3 bard past lives for my caster! +1

[AegonTargaryen]

Thank you Raizing for posting this. I don't think I will be following in your footsteps, as I am rather enamoured with barbarians, and cannot live without sprint boost. But I have often wondered (and questioned you at endless length :P) about your strength layout/gear setup. I have the FB ToD set on my bard currently, and dont have any plans to change that around, though you have got me thinking about the whole possibility of stunning blow. I am also rather fond of having *some* self healing ability (1065 sp doesn't go very far I'm afraid, even if my cure crits do hit me for about 240) for moments when I'm too occupied to deal with stupid umd lag. Thus I took maximize and emp healing (might switch out emp healing later for something else though). I do love the fact that you squeezed in all 3 THF feats. (my glancing blows suck ass atm) This build has opened me up to some new ideas. Thank you for giving my brain something to chew on for a while. +1

[maddmatt70]

Bah. NO MOMENTUM SWING on a two hander melee character is basically sacrilege. weapon specialization will provide alot less dps then cleave with momentum swing. You spent 10 destiny points on +5 to strength what this says to me is you need to do another destiny because fatesinger is not compelling to you i.e. 10 strength adds not too much dps.

First, on a character this melee oriented I recommend Legendary Dreadnaught. Go with Legendary Dreadnaught and twist in Reign and Sense weakness - you will be able to get both of these twisted in update 16 with the new destinies available at that time.

Second, Go with the overwhelming critical and cleave/great cleave route.