So, which class for me?

[Kylric]

Hello folks,

I joined the game about 2 weeks ago and could use some advice. I’ve not been able to play as much as I would like, but I’m really enjoying the game. I’ve been playing a FS and just got to level 3. I will be keeping him, but I wanted to ask for some opinions.

I’m a melee type guy for the most part, but I do like to have some spells for healing or whatever. I’m wondering if a Paladin would be a good choice. I also played my Monk until level 3, and I liked him as well. I would not mind finding a way to combine the two?

I should also add that I love finding loot. In fact, I hate having to leave a chest behind because I can’t get to it. This had me thinking Artificer, which I have never played even in PnP version.

I don’t need to be the best min/max toon, but I do need to be viable. I truly do not want to get to higher levels and find out I can’t solo. BTW, I am VIP and I have 32 point build options.

Opinions?

[Lonnbeimnech]

The paladin was my favorite class in pen and paper, it unfortunatly does not translate well into this game.

Make a cleric, take 1 level of fighter, much stronger character overall.

Edit: actually if you like monk, look up clonk (cleric monk). there are many types like [1 fighter 2 monk 17 cleric] or [2 monk 18 cleric] or [3 monk 17 cleric] or [2 monk 1 artificer 17 cleric] very good solo builds with great self healing and not bad melee dps.

[Gunga]

FvS is the easiest class to play for casting or melee unless you have unlimited funds and can buy stacks of heal pots or spell pots. For a melee based, max str and con and make sure you have at least a 19 cha at end game. For casting based, max wis and con and make sure you have at least a 19 cha at end game.

Nothing this easy is better.

[Wipey]

Warforged artificer. If you think about it, there's not more newbie friendly, low responsibility, mistake proof, independent ( but with strong party buffs ) and powerful toon imho. Except trapping ( get best trapping gear at level )but don' t think OP is gonna run elites so blowing those boxes don' matter much :-)
I don't know Gunga, for experienced, sure divine is easy button, but nothing worse in game than lowbie divine pug experience.

[Kylric]

What about a Dwarf Artificer/Monk combo?

[katz]

What about a Dwarf Artificer/Monk combo?

interesting. not much synergy between monk and arti. you won't be able to use a rune arm (or crossbow, for that matter) and stay centered. and dwarf would give you a slight hit to your charisma, which in turn gives you a slight hit to your UMD.

if you're thinking of combining trapping and punching, i'd rather go monk/rogue. i just completed a 13 rogue/7 monk life. enjoyed the heck out of it. total blast.


just a few friendly pointers... toughness... it is your friend. you want at least one toughness feat no matter what class you chose. don't start with low con. most recommend 14-16 bare minimum. i'll go to 12 in my own builds, depending what i'm building for, but no lower. and as you level up... have the best fortification item and false life item you can have. these will enhance your enjoyment of the game. they are tools to help you stay alive longer if something decides it wants to eat your face. no deaths = good.

[Arianrhod]

Another suggestion: If you want a meleer with some self-healing who can also open locks/find secret doors, etc., you might want to consider a ranger/rogue. Take rogue at first level, then ranger from then on, keeping Open locks, Search, Disable Device, Spot & Use Magic Device skills maxed. Make sure to take the Dodge (need min 13 dex), Mobility & Spring attack feats for the Tempest PrE, and if you want to add whirlwind attack to the list, make sure to have at least 13 int for Combat Expertise as well. [Whirlwind attack isn't necessarily all that great, but with 3 of the 4 prereqs already and the int for rogue skills, there's at least a case for taking it]

Alternatively, the bard/rogue/fighter (16/2/2) warchanter is another melee self-healer with trap/lock skills, but a bit harder to pull off (need min 17 dex by the time you're ready to take Improved 2-weapon fighting, which can be hard to fit in without 32-point builds and/or tomes), and more of a caster than the ranger. Ranger would get Barkskin, elemental resists and modest healing, bard would get haste, displacement, more substantial healing, and bard songs.

[Aashrym]

FvS are a very strong class and popular for evoker builds or melee builds (WF FvS's for melee abound in my guild).


If you enjoyed monk then a clonk build works well, as previously suggested, and some players go with fvs's that splash but that skips the capstone enhancement while limiting higher level spells even more, and isn't what I would personally choose. Personal opinion is that clerics make better divine casters for splashing.


Paladins tend to be less popular because they are missing in the heal spell, or the spell offense, or DPS compared to other melee classes. They can be pretty solid (my opinion again) on the defensive side and the self healing is one of the draws to the class. The sentinel epic destiny for paladins offers regenerating lay on hands and a nice AoE heal as well at the cost of LoH uses, which increased my interest in the class. It's not a bad option but tends to be slower than the typical FvS builds these days. The SP pool is far lower than divine casters


If you are entertaining the though of paladins for healing you might want to also consider druids and bards.


Druids also get the heal spell, albeit a bit later than clerics or fvs's but also get some heal-over-time (HoT's) spells. Going with season's herald has a seasonal change impacting spells mechanic I don't care that much for but it can be handy. Druids have more SP than paladins as well and less then FvS's.


A person can go with a melee approach on a druid and use either the bear form for a tankier melee melee form or the wolf for a more damaging melee form. They increase spell cool downs but if you are using HoT's that is less impacting. The wolf form has the advantage of easily adding sneak attack damage with freedom of movement and sleet storm, and I preferred that form for melee. Both forms have additional spells only cast in animal form that carry bonus damage, and if you do take season's herald II you can use the crown of summer on yourself for bonus light damage. The other PrE offers more bonus damage in animal forms.


A notable difference is the eminence of life enhancement. Most healing enhancements go to +80 spell power at tier IV (bard song magic, cleric/fvs life magic, paladin/ranger devotion) but eminence of life goes to +65 healing spell power. This is ultimately a small difference but worth noting if you want bigger healing numbers. In seasonal changes with season's herald II this actually +95 instead of +80 in the summer and +65 instead of +80 in the winter. Druids also get bonus caster levels in the summer to positive spells (ie healing) on top of the spell power bonus.


Bards are more unique as arcane casters with healing instead of divine healing. The do not have the heal spell but do have CCW, which paladins do not, and have more SP than paladins. With bards the buffs are included with the character and helps with soloing melee power, and regardless of a casting bard or a combat bard the song CC will still be effective. Bards have less SP than artificers and more SP than paladins or rangers. Something also notable is the spellsinger PrE. This PrE includes bonuses to SP and a song for reduced SP casting costs, moving them up to SP comparable to artificers; they also get an SP regeneration song that gives them SP far beyond rangers, paladins, other bards, or artificers. Typically this gives them SP more similar to wizards and clerics but in longer runs with few shrines this rivals fvs SP and possibly beyond.


Bards rely on combat for damage most of the time regardless of a casting or combat build due to the spell selection.


Bards also need to raise dead / resurrect by scroll consumption, where druids get reincarnate, clerics/fvs's cast the spell, and paladins spend LoH on the redemption enhancement. Bards can AoE heal with mass cures, unlike paladins, but as mentioned earlier epic paladins add regenerating LoH and a mass healing effect for LoH.


Another build you might want to look at is the exploiter build for rangers. Ranger 18 / rogue 1 / monk 1 will give you those trap skills, self healing, and melee as well.


Ranger healing uses the same cure spells as paladin healing but rangers don't have the enhancements or class abilities to match what paladin's have. Rangers do have easy access to the shiradi epic destiny which includes healing spring for an additional heal boost. Rangers have similar SP pools to paladins.


Rangers and paladins can both use wands for cures before they have the spell access opened up.


WF Artificers have great self healing and buffs too. I think artificers can be a bit squishy and WF helps with that a bit. The SP pool is lower than you'll see on the typical divine caster but higher than the typical paladin. There are melee builds but most artificers are ranged builds, in my experience, and tend to favor a combination of repeater fire, rune arm fire, and direct damage spells.


Monks also get some self healing with wholeness of body and some finishing moves and enhancements, and that goes with healing amplification. The fists of light and healing ki don't use SP and this makes them highly renewable although weaker than a standard healer. In combination with a helf dilettante or halfling dragon marks, and/or multiclassing, monks have some healing abilities that can contribute decently.


Which gets us to the option of helf dilettante or halfling dragon marks. Classes that have plenty of feats can take better advantage of some halfling healing and helf opens up item usage through dilettantes. Both can provide a decent amount of self healing. These tend to be options for some melee joining byoh groups or soloing.


Now that I've listed more options than you asked for I suspect you would be happier with a FvS or clonk RS build than a paladin. I would ask what you liked about the FvS and what you didn't, as well as what you liked about the monk and what you didn't before I presume to answer beyond that.


EDIT: I see someone beat me to the ranger and bard options.

[Kylric]

Thanks all for the great follow-up posts. I should add, that I do enjoy the FS thus far, and the monk too. However, I also know I would like to be able to open locks/traps. I don't feel the need to have the most "umber" character, but I do want to be viable at higher levels. I'm so new to the game that I "don't know what I don't know".

I have no doubt that I will sometime work on a Ranger with a splash of rogue and/or monk. I can't even imagine how many PnP half-elf ranger/rogues I had when I played. I think that might be my best bet.


Again, thank you.

[Gunga]

I don't know Gunga, for experienced, sure divine is easy button, but nothing worse in game than lowbie divine pug experience.

Do you mean to say that you don't get healed by lowbie divine pugs, or that the OP wouldn't enjoy playing the lowbie divine experience?

[katz]

Do you mean to say that you don't get healed by lowbie divine pugs, or that the OP wouldn't enjoy playing the lowbie divine experience?

in can be discouraging in both directions..lowbie pug inexperienced divines not having their timing down between fighting/casting and healing and/or blowing all their mana too fast...or being the divine in the lowbie pug and getting demands of 'HJEAL MEH!' from around corners and thru walls and being told to not waste mana or time on anything other than heals.