Ranged now exempt from Adrenaline? Seriously?

[Scrootaype]

So the first patch to U15 has completely killed ranged damage enhancements with Fury's Adrenaline.

Personally, I find this very frustrating, puzzling, and completely contrary to the idea of destinies enabling more choices for different classes and builds.

LD really does nothing for ranged. Shiradi, frankly, is also disappointing for archer dps.

Why the ginormous nerf? Seriously?

Sadly, this is a monumental dps nerf for bow users to be honest. Highly disappointing.

[Missing_Minds]

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...60#post4686660

Funny how things may actually be explained (somewhat) why.

[Scrootaype]

Why thank you for the link to the explanatory thread. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

[Missing_Minds]

Why thank you for the link to the explanatory thread. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.

Just remember. top left there is a button. "Dev Tracker" it is your friend.

[-Avalon-]

First off, they are supposedly fixing it so ranged WILL be able to use adrenaline, to what extent? Who knows...

Second, I am trying to find out why anyone has the right to complain that Fury of the Wild is not affecting ranged as much as they would like... just some comparisons for the two primal ED's:

FotW-
Symbol is Great Axe
Bonuses to hit/damage with attacks
bonuses to hit/damage with melee
special effects for melee
special effects for glancing blows
Only Ranged attack mentioned is throwing a boulder
+1 Strength/Constitution

Shiradi-
Symbol is Bow and Arrow
grants prof with longbows and shortbows
grants +1 druid/ranger caster levels
bonuses to ranged attacks
special effects to ranged attacks
has ranged stances
+ Dexterity/Wisdom

Honestly, if you want to complain, complain that Shiradi is NOT doing what it should (because it is OBVIOUSLY meant for ranged combat), as opposed to going after the one that obviously meant for melee and then ******** that it is not living up to ranged expectations...

Is like leveling a 20 wizard and complaining that you cannot tank EE LoB... Well, duh! I am just not understanding this... unless, the problem is that players saw a loophole, jumped in and exploited something not meant for what they were doing, and now complain that the devs took away their toy?

The devs are saying that they intend it to be available for ranged as well... but that does not mean they intend it to be "OMG Awesomesauce!"... Only that if you want, you CAN do it. But then, if you want, you can do a whole lot of things in DDO, a good many of them are much less efficient than others, though...

[Gara]

First off, they are supposedly fixing it so ranged WILL be able to use adrenaline, to what extent? Who knows...

Second, I am trying to find out why anyone has the right to complain that Fury of the Wild is not affecting ranged as much as they would like... just some comparisons for the two primal ED's:

FotW-
Symbol is Great Axe
Bonuses to hit/damage with attacks
bonuses to hit/damage with melee
special effects for melee
special effects for glancing blows
Only Ranged attack mentioned is throwing a boulder
+1 Strength/Constitution

Shiradi-
Symbol is Bow and Arrow
grants prof with longbows and shortbows
grants +1 druid/ranger caster levels
bonuses to ranged attacks
special effects to ranged attacks
has ranged stances
+ Dexterity/Wisdom

Honestly, if you want to complain, complain that Shiradi is NOT doing what it should (because it is OBVIOUSLY meant for ranged combat), as opposed to going after the one that obviously meant for melee and then ******** that it is not living up to ranged expectations...

Is like leveling a 20 wizard and complaining that you cannot tank EE LoB... Well, duh! I am just not understanding this... unless, the problem is that players saw a loophole, jumped in and exploited something not meant for what they were doing, and now complain that the devs took away their toy?

The devs are saying that they intend it to be available for ranged as well... but that does not mean they intend it to be "OMG Awesomesauce!"... Only that if you want, you CAN do it. But then, if you want, you can do a whole lot of things in DDO, a good many of them are much less efficient than others, though...

Did you actually have a point with this post? Did you really type all that out just to say everyone should pigeon hole their build into its intended tree?

It sounds like you have no imagination on your own character and feel slighted that people are more powerful when using oddball skills that are more tailored to other classes.

If every character was meant to be how you play the game then we would not be allowed to switch our destiny. Shiradi fits a certain play style, fury of the wild tailors to another. Sadly it was nerfed to fix an exploit.

I hope it's fixed to allow ranged combat again because frankly I don't want to play the game you're preaching on about. I like variety, I would like to continue to experiment in trees "OBVIOUSLY" meant for other classes.

[zeichen-thest]

Personally, I don't thinkt hat adrenaline should work with ranged at all. Perhaps throwing weapons. I think that there are a lot of great range benefits out there.

How would one's adrenaline affect a crowsbow? Even a bow has a limit on how far you can pull back. I know that this is fantasy but it doesnt have to escape physics entirely.

I do agree that those that want it are the ones that want to be OP. I like to have different styles of gameplay for my different toons. I enjoy that some quests are challenging for certain toons but not others.

I guess those complaining want to go into a battle and kill all mobs in 2 seconds.

Ranged should never be able to produce as much DPS as melee. They have the advantage of being at a distance and taking less damage. Each playstyle, destiny, class, race should have limitations.

[Archangel666]

Ranged should never be able to produce as much DPS as melee. They have the advantage of being at a distance and taking less damage. Each playstyle, destiny, class, race should have limitations.

Question: Have you actually played Ranged?

Not trying to insult you here but this isn't really true.

Unless you constantly kite (Bad idea because then melee can't hit your target and you lose DPS from multiple sources) your only alternative really is to stand there and take the hits once the mob closes in, so Ranged gets a few hits in on mobs first, but in my experience this doesn't mean Ranged characters take less damage than melee really.

[Ape_Man]

Question: Have you actually played Ranged?

.

Knowing what you're talking about is not a prerequisite of posting on these forums.

[maddmatt70]

Question: Have you actually played Ranged?

Not trying to insult you here but this isn't really true.

Unless you constantly kite (Bad idea because then melee can't hit your target and you lose DPS from multiple sources) your only alternative really is to stand there and take the hits once the mob closes in, so Ranged gets a few hits in on mobs first, but in my experience this doesn't mean Ranged characters take less damage than melee really.

The devs apprantly agree with this guy. Until we get new devs do not expect range to ever be truely competitive dps wise with other combat modes. The Codog ranged thread was 4-5 years ago and nothing really has changed. DDO is a spellcaster or melee game depending on the situation.

[Archangel666]

The devs apprantly agree with this guy. Until we get new devs do not expect range to ever be truely competitive dps wise with other combat modes. The Codog ranged thread was 4-5 years ago and nothing really has changed. DDO is a spellcaster or melee game depending on the situation.

I have a Ranged character that works for me, it is by no means a DPS Machine. I can kill mobs fine, but I know that other classes and builds can do better.

But I strongly disagree with the mentality that Ranged takes less damage, therefore it should do less damage.

This is simply NOT the way it plays out in the game.

If Ranged Characters are taking the same damage as Melee then the DPS should be much closer.

[-Avalon-]

Question: Have you actually played Ranged?

Not trying to insult you here but this isn't really true.

Unless you constantly kite (Bad idea because then melee can't hit your target and you lose DPS from multiple sources) your only alternative really is to stand there and take the hits once the mob closes in, so Ranged gets a few hits in on mobs first, but in my experience this doesn't mean Ranged characters take less damage than melee really.

***?!? lol, really? You must be anti-social or something... sounds like you are upset that when soloing you cannot keep enemies at ranged... In any group I have ever been in that had people halfway competent, the ranged guy NEVER got touched... I even stopped blurring ranged characters because it was a waste of SP!

The only times I have ever seen a ranged guy end up like what you describe, is when we have NO crowd control spells, NO intimi-tank, no DPS on melees, etc... It takes a whole lot of bad things to equal the ranged guy getting ganged up on... Unless he is off by himself trying to solo one side of a quest while group went off another way? Or is he trying to solo quests that are too difficult for him? I am missing how A: you end up in a situation like that without asking for it, B: How you don't just blow through them without dying (unless you are attempting something too difficult for your level/build)...

If you are ranged and in a group, you really should not ever get hit unless you are standing right next to someone who has grabbed a caster's attention, or the mechanics of the game decided to reset aggro lists, etc... But yes, the benefit of being ranged is extra security, hanging back and plunking arrows...

[Expalphalog]

So let me get this straight: You think that ranged toons don't get hit because the casters kill everything (at range) before it can reach the party and you're using this as evidence to suggest that the ranged toon should do less damage?

[Ape_Man]

So let me get this straight: You think that ranged toons don't get hit because the casters kill everything (at range) before it can reach the party and you're using this as evidence to suggest that the ranged toon should do less damage?

Just add the troll to your ignore list, you'll fell more sane

[Expalphalog]

Just add the troll to your ignore list, you'll fell more sane

There's an ignore list?!




That changes everything!

[Ape_Man]

There's an ignore list?!




That changes everything!

User CP, on the left. Helps to keep the nerd-rage under control.

[-Avalon-]

So let me get this straight: You think that ranged toons don't get hit because the casters kill everything (at range) before it can reach the party and you're using this as evidence to suggest that the ranged toon should do less damage?

Where did you get that idea? lol

No, what I said was that we all have positions in a group... the ranged person is to do damage, but not so much that they outweigh the aggro controlling parts of the group. Wizards do CC mostly... so the "because the casters kill everything (at range)" part I really don't get...

Caster = No armor, limited resources, very few HP, almost no protections, Decent DPS, good CC
Melee (tank) = A lot of HP, good armor, many protections, Decent DPS, good CC through Intimidation
Melee (DPS) = Decent HP, Decent Armor, Ok protections, great DPS, No CC
Ranged = Decent HP, Decent Armor, Ok Protections, Good DPS, no CC

Seems to me, like if you want real DPS, put down the bow and get in the fight... you are complaining that people who risk or sacrifice more than you, do more damage! The devs are not going to make it so that you have the ultimate soloer that can blow down groups of enemies before they even reach you. What you seem to be asking for, is to be able to invalidate every other build in existence, except maybe wizard CC (to keep mobs grouped and easy pickings for you) and cleric healer (to heal you just in case one or two mobs do make it through your high dps artillery)...

[zeichen-thest]

YEs, I do play ranged. I have a capped arti that I love. I also have a barbarian that only capped one tree and doesnt twist anything.

I take a lot less damage with my arti than with my brb. I don't kite often unless solo.

The issue wasn't that you take less damage so that you do less damage.

It was that there needs to be balance. There are advantages to every build and therefore should be disadvantages.

For those that think that ranged should do as much dps as melee, then have your friend hit you with a hand axe in your back yard. Then have him shooot you with an arrow and see which one actually hurts more. Then I will change my mind if you choose ranged.

Exploit gamers complaining when things actually become balanced.

[-Avalon-]

YEs, I do play ranged. I have a capped arti that I love. I also have a barbarian that only capped one tree and doesnt twist anything.

I take a lot less damage with my arti than with my brb. I don't kite often unless solo.

The issue wasn't that you take less damage so that you do less damage.

It was that there needs to be balance. There are advantages to every build and therefore should be disadvantages.

For those that think that ranged should do as much dps as melee, then have your friend hit you with a hand axe in your back yard. Then have him shooot you with an arrow and see which one actually hurts more. Then I will change my mind if you choose ranged.

Exploit gamers complaining when things actually become balanced.

Love it! lol

Except, let's use D&D stats ok? Hand Ax only does 1d6, most bows do that or more...

Let's go with the true comparison... They want to do as much DPS as a DPS Melee or Caster...

We will simulate the following (do not try this at home):
A - You are hit by an arrow from a guy using a compound (strength) bow from 50 feet away... (you take 1d8 + 5 from str, average of 9-10)

B - You are hit by a scottish claymore point blank... (you take 2d6 + 8, so average of 15)

C - Someone drops a small container of Napalm on you, and lights it up... (you take 10d6 * 140%, average of 49)

Hmmm... Yep, I see your point... Arrows SHOULD hurt as much as the others... Have you tried using exploding tips??

[Archangel666]

***?!? lol, really? You must be anti-social or something... sounds like you are upset that when soloing you cannot keep enemies at ranged... In any group I have ever been in that had people halfway competent, the ranged guy NEVER got touched... I even stopped blurring ranged characters because it was a waste of SP!

This makes no sense at all. Upset because "when soloing you cannot keep enemies at ranged" when I stated that when in GROUPS kiting is a bad idea because it reduces the DPS of the party from however many melee are in the party, to just you. When soloing I kite away merrily, after all the only one trying to kill the mobs is me. When I party, I rarely if ever kite.

The only times I have ever seen a ranged guy end up like what you describe, is when we have NO crowd control spells, NO intimi-tank, no DPS on melees, etc...

Odd you should mention that. For some strange reason I don't have a caster permanently strapped to my belt and don't always have CC avaliable. The whole point of Ranged combat is to be able to attack mobs without having to wait for them to get to you, so you shoot at mobs in the distance. If you shoot at mobs they don't like it and run towards you (Wierd, isn't it?). Ever seen an Intimi-tank trying to pull a mob off an Archer (especially if said archer is kiting as you seem to feel is the norm)? Intim only works if you hit the mob too. You can't just stand there without hitting a mob(And if the Archer is kiting then good luck hitting the mob) and use Intim and magically make them switch targets. DPS melees? How are they going to help if they can't hit the mob because of kiting and even if they do hit the mob, how are they going to grab agro from an archer that's been attacking the mob for longer? Or do you suggest that a Ranged character just stand there looking pretty until the melee in the group engage and only then start shooting?

It takes a whole lot of bad things to equal the ranged guy getting ganged up on... Unless he is off by himself trying to solo one side of a quest while group went off another way? Or is he trying to solo quests that are too difficult for him? I am missing how A: you end up in a situation like that without asking for it, B: How you don't just blow through them without dying (unless you are attempting something too difficult for your level/build)...

If you are ranged and in a group, you really should not ever get hit unless you are standing right next to someone who has grabbed a caster's attention, or the mechanics of the game decided to reset aggro lists, etc... But yes, the benefit of being ranged is extra security, hanging back and plunking arrows...

Who said anything about getting ganged up on? I merely asserted that given that kiting while in a Party is a bad thing and generally best to be avoided, Ranged chars take damage the same as Melee.