A Cleric Tied to a chair

[Khatzhas]

Yup, clearly a Cleric who refuses to join that "NEED HJEALER!!1" LFM with 5 fighter/barb in it, and just goes and runs the same quest solo on Elite at level, is a very, very bad person/player/Cleric.

No. If they aren't in a group as a healer, why would a cleric be under any requirement to go heal?

Pretty much any Cleric who's actually playing effectively is a "bad Cleric"...in the view of a bad fighter/barb.

Note your qualifier: a bad fighter/barb.
As pointed out in this thread, you get bad players of any class. The bad melee players are just more noticeable by healers because the game mechanics are set up in such a way to render most melee reliant on them.

Something they can't...cast Implosion? If you mean healing, you talked about it yourself...they CAN. The community urging you to be able to self-heal isn't a great conspiracy to keep you down, it's playing smart!

There are only a few classes that are capable of effective, in-combat pinch healing.
Out of combat? Sure. As long as the group does not mind waiting around, most characters can be built so that they can pot or wand themselves back up to full eventually, without their build losing too much effectiveness for their role. Most second-life characters or alts can afford the platinum cost without difficulty.
Actually in combat when its really needed? Normal potions can't keep up with the damage, and swapping into UMD gear to start wanding not only is not viable, it means that you are ceasing to support the group in the role that you are viable at.

Wow...like I asked, what server do you play on? There's plenty of morons around anywhere I've played.

I don't think anyone is claiming that they have never run into morons:
"Why no heals?" "They have a range. I saw you kick in that sprint boost as you ran off."
"Try to let the Dwarf take the damage please." "lol. I have more health than him." "You have no healer's friend as far as I can tell. That means that you have less health than the rogue when it comes to keeping you alive."
"Why did you let me die?" "Because when I've tried healing you before it didn't work. If you tell me when you drop out of undead form and hang back a bit, I should be able to keep you alive."
. . . And so on. Every other healer has similar stories. But the "Healers are only there to heal us" mentality? Never encountered that, and no one other than on the forums has ever mentioned it to me. As said before: I'm sure it has happened, but I really don't think that that particular stupidity is as common as portrayed in the usual melee-bashing threads in the forums.

Yes. It encourages people who could develop into compentent divines to instead get stuck thinking they should be useless hjealbots.

Different styles appeal to different people. I know some clerics who do play as dedicated support and healers, because they like having a nice, well-defined role. They are usually relatively new, and only start branching out later when they know the game and the quests more. Are they playing their class to its fullest extent? Most certainly not. But many groups are willing to take someone along to show them the quest, and it generally is a role that needs filling, so its not a case of them feeling carried.

[SirValentine]

If they aren't in a group as a healer, why would a cleric be under any requirement to go heal?

They're not, they shouldn't be. There's just way too many people who seem to think Cleric class symbol means "hjealbot".

[firemedium_jt]

I understand the rants on here about it. Experienced players want healers to do more especially low lvl pug content. And now anyone with a stone xp can be lvl 16, so level does not show xp anymore. Most on the forums know how to build, and build well. Most on the forums see a multi class toon and see experience and a toon well geared.

Those on this forum probably have a thick skin, and one of the good things about the internet is that it promotes that. So enjoy your rants about it, and even school those that need it in game. I do it. My divines and casters all self heal and melee at low lvl because they are built and geared better than most newbie melees. I did not have a clue about gear till lvl10+ and lots of reading on the forum. Heck I would not limit what I know to the forums.

[Karavek]

To those who have never felt the bondage that I speak of you must be new or only play with friends. Had you been here since launch, you would have experienced the darkest of days, and even now not unlike in RL where after civil rights many still suffer the injustice of prejudice so to do those who carry the power of positive energy within DDO.

Pure Fighters and Pure Barbs are gimp as can be, the cap stone a false goal to trick people into playing purist roles. In PnP 3E+ there are many pure classed caster NPCs depicted, but few who persue martial mastery stick to a single class, most build like a mid evil special forces operative using classes like fighter, ranger, rogue, barb, and even paladin to create a very well skilled and endowed with mystical protections non caster.

If anything blame DDO for the artifical 3 class limit that we do not suffer in PnP.

Remember Elminster is a by the book in 3E made fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard/archamge fully made within the rules of the edition. Now that we have him as an NPC within the game expect alot more PNP versed players to chafe under the 3 class limit.

[PNellesen]

I must be on the wrong server. REALLY! Because I am on Orien, and every week I am not in TR with buddies(I NEVER PUG TR), I get told to save my sp for healing. By multi-TRs. Almost inevitably by barbs or fighters. People who should recognize that those wings around my name mean I do have a clue how to manage my sp bar. I also get told to HJEAL frequently. Almost every time by barbs/fighters/monks, and always by those who have gotten themselves out of my range, and far away from the rest of the party.

I think we need a thread on how to get and keep decent divines willing to party with you more than once.

Maybe it's an Orien thing, because I've gotten that ore than once myself, though I have to admit it's kind of rare (I pug a lot on my clerics too). I do remember vividly one Elite VoD where I was told to heal the party and the leader would heal the tank, and I got grief because in between his heals, the tank took a nice crit heal from my aura and the leader screamed in voice chat "please just heal the party, I've got the tank!".

Sometimes you can't win no matter what you do - if you don't heal enough you're a useless battle cleric, and if you happen to use Radiant Servant to it's full potential you're wasting your "SP" when you shouldn't be

(I've got another level 22 Cleric/Fighter on Ghallanda, and I cannot once remember being told/asked to just stand back and hjeal or to watch his SP or anything like that, no matter what the content was.)

[Potta]

What server do you play on? What typical level range?

Khyber, all ranges. Mostly I stick at cap but I've TR'd 4 times in the past 6 months.

People should pick a build they will find fun. But many of them don't realize beforehand that standing around in the Marketplace with a "need hjealer" LFM up, instead of questing, for hours on end, isn't fun.

Or maybe they do and decide that they'd rather sacrifice the temporary pain of levelling a non self-sufficient character with a better DPS or tank for EE's and raids at cap. Maybe they'd rather not have to pay for +3/+5 LR's to get rid of Rogue levels they took for UMD after capping. Maybe they don't want to be a Half Elf, and you can't LR that away. Silver Flame pots exist, but that's a 400 favour grind, and first lifers are not going to have access to them until they're near cap anyway.

Something they can't...cast Implosion? If you mean healing, you talked about it yourself...they CAN. The community urging you to be able to self-heal isn't a great conspiracy to keep you down, it's playing smart!

Implosion is just another name for killing mobs. Anyone can do that. And it's not playing smart for everyone in a party to be healing themselves. A self sufficient party will do significantly less damage than a party of 5 maximised DPS characters with a healer supporting them. Because for characters without the Heal ability in their spellbook, self sufficiency means scrolls. So, a class split for UMD and UMD gear. Loss of capstone and some enhancements. Loss of gear that could improve DPS. A global cooldown on scroll swapping. Cast time on heal. No class skill for Concentration, and no points to spend on it most likely since you've spent them on UMD. Likely to be interupted unless you run away from combat first. More time wasted. The healing from the scroll is not going to be enough without more investment in healing amp and scroll enhancements. More DPS loss. And even when the healing is done, another global cooldown on switching back to your weapon. A DPS'er with a healer backing them would have killed the mob already.

Or maybe it means Silver Flame pots. So you run around with -5 ac. -5 reflex/fort/will, -50% movement speed, -5-10 skills -5 to hit and -5 damage per hit. I'm sure that won't hurt your DPS.

Or could it mean CSW potions? By the time you're done healing yourself to full with those, the rest of the party will be finishing the quest. Totally useless in combat past level 10, because you'll take more damage while drinking them than they do healing.

If 6 people all waste so much time and build potential on keeping themselves healed to the point that they're at only ~50% effectiveness on their damage, they're only worth 3 DPS'ers in total. A maximised DPS party has 5 DPS'ers and with a good healer capable of multi-tasking, often 5.5-6.

To those who have never felt the bondage that I speak of you must be new or only play with friends.

Wrong and wrong. If most parties complain at you for bad healing, it's likely not a community issue.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

How many times is this really an issue though?

In the absence of other factors, if a cleric sees a party member needing a heal, has a heal available, and decides not to use it, they probably are a bad cleric. But they are probably not that good a person either.
If any party member sees another party member in trouble, has a way to help available to them, and decides not to help out, then they are probably a bad whatever they are, whether it be cleric, wizard, fighter or barbarian.
And while those incidents you do remember, they really aren't that common.

Likewise, there are people who (unsolicited) start telling the cleric when and how they should be healing. Just like telling the wizard who they should be CCing, the fighter how to tank, and the barbarian who to trip and when they should be cleaving. Advice is one thing. Being told how to play is another.
Yes, they are being a jerk. But in my experience, its really not that common. It just really sticks in the mind when it does happen.

Well said.

[Potta]

Pure Fighters and Pure Barbs are gimp as can be

And here we have it. The OP returns and proves my first point in this thread. That Divines are more often the ones to dictate build choices to others.

"You shouldn't be pure fighter/barb, that's gimp!"

Well, considering that they're both viable builds for DPS/tanking, the only way they'd be considered "gimp" is in the inability to heal themselves. Which, with a good healer backing them up, is not an issue.

I think OP, that your issue is that you're a bad healer who blames deaths in his party on the fact that other people aren't doing your job for you.

[Enoach]

While I do not run into this as often as I did 6+ years ago. Occasionally during a TR I do run into one or two PuGs where the leader or even another party member goes on about how there are no/limited shrines in the quest and that "You cleric need to save your SP to heal the party", "Stay in the back" , etc.

Normally, I politely excuse myself letting the group know "Sorry I think your playstyle would be best served with a Hireling {add appropriate level hireling name here}, let me know when you want to cleric to join your group".

There are times when it is appropriate to spend more than 1/2 your resources on "reactive healing", however, most of the time it is better spent on "pro-active measures".

The best melee types know how to reduce incoming damage, by either; 1) Tripping/Stunning 2) Staying outside/behind their target 3) Use Line of Site to the Melee advantage 4) Use of a shield - Blocking, not just Damage Reduction, but also mitigates scorpion/spider stings etc.

However, I do agree that any party member that can "help" another out of a tough jam and doesn't is not worth the time to group with. Be it with a positive healing to help stabilize or bring out of incap, or use of Intimidate, bluff or direct attack to take the Aggro off someone so they have a chance to recover.

[seldarin]

Khyber, all ranges. Mostly I stick at cap but I've TR'd 4 times in the past 6 months.



Or maybe they do and decide that they'd rather sacrifice the temporary pain of levelling a non self-sufficient character with a better DPS or tank for EE's and raids at cap. Maybe they'd rather not have to pay for +3/+5 LR's to get rid of Rogue levels they took for UMD after capping. Maybe they don't want to be a Half Elf, and you can't LR that away. Silver Flame pots exist, but that's a 400 favour grind, and first lifers are not going to have access to them until they're near cap anyway.



Implosion is just another name for killing mobs. Anyone can do that. And it's not playing smart for everyone in a party to be healing themselves. A self sufficient party will do significantly less damage than a party of 5 maximised DPS characters with a healer supporting them. Because for characters without the Heal ability in their spellbook, self sufficiency means scrolls. So, a class split for UMD and UMD gear. Loss of capstone and some enhancements. Loss of gear that could improve DPS. A global cooldown on scroll swapping. Cast time on heal. No class skill for Concentration, and no points to spend on it most likely since you've spent them on UMD. Likely to be interupted unless you run away from combat first. More time wasted. The healing from the scroll is not going to be enough without more investment in healing amp and scroll enhancements. More DPS loss. And even when the healing is done, another global cooldown on switching back to your weapon. A DPS'er with a healer backing them would have killed the mob already.

Or maybe it means Silver Flame pots. So you run around with -5 ac. -5 reflex/fort/will, -50% movement speed, -5-10 skills -5 to hit and -5 damage per hit. I'm sure that won't hurt your DPS.

Or could it mean CSW potions? By the time you're done healing yourself to full with those, the rest of the party will be finishing the quest. Totally useless in combat past level 10, because you'll take more damage while drinking them than they do healing.

If 6 people all waste so much time and build potential on keeping themselves healed to the point that they're at only ~50% effectiveness on their damage, they're only worth 3 DPS'ers in total. A maximised DPS party has 5 DPS'ers and with a good healer capable of multi-tasking, often 5.5-6.



Wrong and wrong. If most parties complain at you for bad healing, it's likely not a community issue.

Potta, I also play on Khyber, have done for over 6 years. You say that you have never experienced what the OP is on about, or very seldom. I have played a lot of different chars to cap and with a lot of different people, both PUGs and guildies and I have seen/heard/experienced quite often what the OP is about. At one stage it reached a point where some individuals would request me to cure poison, cure disease, remove curse, blindness, etc, etc. Last time I checked all those things were available in a potion. As a cleric, I have limited SP, the SP I waste on things like rem curse etc, is SP that I dont have for healing, ergo, I dont cast rem curse and inform that it comes in a potion.

I make all my chars self sufficient and whilst I appreciate a heal during combat, I also appreciate what a healer goes through, having played them myself and I heal myself between fights, and I tell the healer to save their SP.

I have been accused at times when I am on my melee/rogue/whatever else and I heal myself between fights that I am not a team player because I am taking away the healers job. A cleric/fvs has far more available to them than just healing, quite an array of offensive casting that can mitigate damage and aid the party.

Anyone who thinks that a divines only job in a party is to heal them is nothing short of a moron.

You say you havent experienced this much, I say that you either A. Havent been playing very long, and/or B. Mostly stick with friends/guildies.

If you have played since game launch and grouped across the server you would see like others have, exactly what the OP is talking about.

[Mubjon]

I pug a lot, if it was truly as common as you suggest, I'd have seen it by now.

And I didn't say it does not happen. Just that I've never seen it. My theory is that if it never happens to some, and always happens to others, the problem isn't widespread. It's confined to those it's happening too. The immediate explanation for that is that you're somehow causing these complaints. I don't know how. Maybe their complaints are justified, maybe your attempt at DPS is counterproductive, or maybe what you say in conversation on voice or party chat is inciting them to not like you.

Or maybe I have a sixth sense that wards me away from grouping with morons. That seems less likely though.

lol

Or it might be that you are being a good little hireling

[Mubjon]

I must be on the wrong server. REALLY! Because I am on Orien, and every week I am not in TR with buddies(I NEVER PUG TR), I get told to save my sp for healing. By multi-TRs. Almost inevitably by barbs or fighters. People who should recognize that those wings around my name mean I do have a clue how to manage my sp bar. I also get told to HJEAL frequently. Almost every time by barbs/fighters/monks, and always by those who have gotten themselves out of my range, and far away from the rest of the party.

I think we need a thread on how to get and keep decent divines willing to party with you more than once.

This cannot be! For the word has been laid down and that is all that matters on the subject!

[bigolbear]

The wizard observed this incident through his crystal ball.

He looked mournfully at his his old costume the grunt brothers had made him wear, it was a jesters outfit with a dunce cap and sign to be hung round his neck that read 'punch here for buffs'.

Of course the wizard had made his escape a year or so back, after hearing stories of other wizards who had never bowed down, who refused to be the party jester. Hed even heard tales of groups of wizards gangin togeter to take on powerful enemies.

Hed decided to take the rouge with him, poor ol fingers had been kept in a special cage(this lock requires a key to open) and only brought out when there was a trap. he was made to wear a gimp suit with a label that read 'insert into trap for xp'.

They decided to go rescue the cleric...


In all seriousness - for a very long time the mele classes were dominant (a typical raid would not allow more than 2 aracens and 3 healzors - and 0 rogues) things have changed, and its not because those clases actualy got significantly better. They did get a little better - but for every buff there was a nerf!

What changed was peoples perception, people playing those support capable classes finaly snapped.(personaly i snapped on day 1..and never took that kind of abuse)

As others have said - not doing everythign you can to help other party memebers is a failure, my divines do heal and my arcanes do buff and my rogues do trapbusting. Being told thats all your allowed to do by a 0 defence 0 self sufficient idiot is frankly funny. I urge all poor needy mele players to quit moanin and man up - do some thing usefull for your party besides agroing every thing in the room and SLOWLY killing it. There are some great meles out there, guys that hack a room full of enemies to kibbles in seconds, that dont need a nanybot, and that give any arcane a run for his money in terms of kill counts.

[Karavek]

And here we have it. The OP returns and proves my first point in this thread. That Divines are more often the ones to dictate build choices to others.

"You shouldn't be pure fighter/barb, that's gimp!"

Well, considering that they're both viable builds for DPS/tanking, the only way they'd be considered "gimp" is in the inability to heal themselves. Which, with a good healer backing them up, is not an issue.

I think OP, that your issue is that you're a bad healer who blames deaths in his party on the fact that other people aren't doing your job for you.

I dont play a healer, I dont know any who do in fact, I play a cleric, I heal those who have proven their worth and only those as most clerics I know do, In pugs I lead I only state BYOHs, and no zerging. Guess which classes tend to join those and ignore those factors and still get verbally abusive to others? Hint they cant ever self heal.

There is no healer class, that is the first thing you need to learn before you can expect to be given any semblance of respect.

And no when there are many self sustaining and superior tank builds, then yes those trying to play pure fighters and barbs just because they can then say I cant self heal so you have to support me while I actually play the game are gimp as can be in an MMO where free form character building is even remotely possible. You are responsible for you and no one else in a group. Help an ally sure, support another player so they can have fun at the cost of my own? NEVER!

[Furare]

I don't expect fighters and barbs to be able to heal themselves fully - some can, and that's great, but I don't expect it - but if they have no healing potions at all on them, then I'm going to start to wonder why. I have seriously seen people like this. Cure Serious Wounds potions aren't sufficient to completely heal your 200+HP L8 fighter, obviously, but they will top you up in between fights, or keep you alive for long enough for me to get to you or finish saving someone else's backside. Oh, and I don't carry status removal spells for you, so you had better have those potions or you will be wandering round diseased, cursed or poisoned for the duration of the effect. (Anyone can buy and use these potions; it's not my responsibility.)

The second thing I expect from fighters and barbs is healing amp. At least a basic 20 or 30% is good enough, though more is obviously better. This doesn't apply at low levels, but once you hit the mid levels you should have some amp from somewhere. Enhancements, convalescent bracers, finger necklace, blood docent, whatever. Even the 10% ship buff helps.

Basically, bring potions, have healing amp, and don't complain about me swinging an axe in the melee, and we'll get along fine. Full self-sufficiency isn't required, but acting like you've actually considered that your "healer" is a person rather than a hireling is greatly appreciated.

[SirValentine]

maybe they do and decide that they'd rather sacrifice the temporary pain of levelling a non self-sufficient character with a better DPS or tank for EE's and raids at cap

Hey, sure, if someone wants to deliberately endure pain over the course of a variety of hundreds of quests, over 24 levels, in order to think they'll have some slight advantage "at cap" in, what, a couple dozen quests at one level, that's fine, but that doesn't mean they should abuse divine players who actually want to enjoy the game instead of babysitting their red bars.

Implosion is just another name for killing mobs. Anyone can do that.

You'd be suprised, maybe.

Anyway, I was trying to think of something that fit them "requiring you to do something they cannot" that you mentioned.

Healing is just another name for healing, pretty much anybody can do that, too. Healing is not a "they cannot", it's usually a "they deliberately choose not to". Let's see, 13 classes...

Cleric, Druid, Bard, Favored Soul, Ranger, Paladin, Artificer, Monk, are all classes with self-healing built in. Wizard, Sorceror, easy self-healing if they choose WF (or PM). Rogue, easy UMD self-healing. Fighter: tons of feats to spare versus every other class, so they could afford to pick up healing Dragonmarks if they cared. That's all in addition to what you already mentioned, Helf dilly, Silver Flame pots, etc..

Really, the ONLY class that has a hard time trying to self-heal is Barbarian. And even they can use cheap hirelings.

When folks of any class choose not to use the healing options available to them, it's pretty hypocritical for them to criticize divines for doing the same.

A self sufficient party will do significantly less damage than a party of 5 maximised DPS characters with a healer supporting them.

No, a party of independant characters will do vastly more damage by doing damage in up to 6 places at once, rather than having to stick close to their hjealbot.

I suppose it might seem faster if it were one of those "everybody must stick together!" groups I run into occasionally...but those groups aren't about speed anyway.

[SirValentine]

There is no healer class, that is the first thing you need to learn

Quoted for truth.

[Karavek]

Khyber, all ranges. Mostly I stick at cap but I've TR'd 4 times in the past 6 months.



Or maybe they do and decide that they'd rather sacrifice the temporary pain of levelling a non self-sufficient character with a better DPS or tank for EE's and raids at cap. Maybe they'd rather not have to pay for +3/+5 LR's to get rid of Rogue levels they took for UMD after capping. Maybe they don't want to be a Half Elf, and you can't LR that away. Silver Flame pots exist, but that's a 400 favour grind, and first lifers are not going to have access to them until they're near cap anyway.



Implosion is just another name for killing mobs. Anyone can do that. And it's not playing smart for everyone in a party to be healing themselves. A self sufficient party will do significantly less damage than a party of 5 maximised DPS characters with a healer supporting them. Because for characters without the Heal ability in their spellbook, self sufficiency means scrolls. So, a class split for UMD and UMD gear. Loss of capstone and some enhancements. Loss of gear that could improve DPS. A global cooldown on scroll swapping. Cast time on heal. No class skill for Concentration, and no points to spend on it most likely since you've spent them on UMD. Likely to be interupted unless you run away from combat first. More time wasted. The healing from the scroll is not going to be enough without more investment in healing amp and scroll enhancements. More DPS loss. And even when the healing is done, another global cooldown on switching back to your weapon. A DPS'er with a healer backing them would have killed the mob already.

Or maybe it means Silver Flame pots. So you run around with -5 ac. -5 reflex/fort/will, -50% movement speed, -5-10 skills -5 to hit and -5 damage per hit. I'm sure that won't hurt your DPS.

Or could it mean CSW potions? By the time you're done healing yourself to full with those, the rest of the party will be finishing the quest. Totally useless in combat past level 10, because you'll take more damage while drinking them than they do healing.

If 6 people all waste so much time and build potential on keeping themselves healed to the point that they're at only ~50% effectiveness on their damage, they're only worth 3 DPS'ers in total. A maximised DPS party has 5 DPS'ers and with a good healer capable of multi-tasking, often 5.5-6.



Wrong and wrong. If most parties complain at you for bad healing, it's likely not a community issue.

LOL bud if that is how you play your on the wrong game, the one your trying to play is called WoW.

The attempt to talk all this optimal DPS with one support playstyle infers is that I am right. Anyone who plays this game as a pure support role has little reason to remain and they rarely do.

EDs make end game builds so much more powerful now that splash classes are better then ever. Keep in mind the capstone enhancment is an artifical mechanic added to DDO due to QQ from the purist crowed who was trying to force classes into specific roles.

This is not WoW, your wowtard style of play has no place in DDO. No one plays DDO for other then its superior combat system. A healer cant enjoy that and infact often is pushed to the breaking point stress wise and quits the game in disgust because any part of the game like say raids in EE where baby sitters are once again becoming a need only drives those playing divine roles into guild/channel only groups where they can count on the emotional support needed to make the task even remotely tolerable.

You dont know stress until you lvl a divine in pugs where first time barbarian and fighters have 0 clue how to gear and demand healing so they can keep swinging away.

Fact is clerics are always in short supply, my OP was simply a mildly comedic attempt at pointing out the general feeling of how playing a cleric results in an extreme sense of bitterness and frustration.

Any content in the game and any difficulty setting in the game that forces another player to sacrifice their game time to not actually play but watch others play( I do define play as combat if your not in combat you are not playing but piking) is just bad content based on the WoW model which has grown obsolete.

DDOs strength is fast paced dynamic combat, but most want to play sit there and swing while a cleric heals. Every fight should be about all players constantly on the move doing their own thing and being far to busy to even notices anothers health bar which in fact should be completely hidden from other players as should their classes and buffs as that all breaks the mold of PnP that helped to keep players feeling a sense of equality rather then a competitive numbers game.

The more we know about each others characters the less fun we have together. The more we are forced to depend on others the less we play, the more we are told we are healers the less we heal. This is the nature of the vicious cycle Turbines flaws have brought about within our player community.

You want a heal to save your life when a bad roll happens cool, you want me to keep you healed constantly so you can play then ill just play the same way and tell you to heal me instead. Yeah I will on a cleric tell a barb to heal me so I can focus on DPS since I am rarely out equipped by them. Few vets make barb their main class and about the only close to pure fighters I see these days are arcane archer kensai.

Facts are in most MMO I played to even qualify as a tank you had to be totally self sufficient. THose few tank skill sets without significant self healing to back up damage reduction and defense values where well known to be the worst skill choices to take and few but the inexperianced new players would even bother with them. They didnt get removed nor buffed, simply left forgotton as all old abilities do in MMOs. Its always about the next new item and ability added.

And that is what we finally got with ED and twists of fate. In time I have no doubt we will see even more lvls, and EDs along with more twists of fate slots. Until one day the power difference between a lvl 19 without ed and a lvl 20 with ED will be as vast a rift as a lvl 1 newb on korthos compared to a beta vet in perfect epic gearing at cap.

[Khatzhas]

Potta, I also play on Khyber, have done for over 6 years. You say that you have never experienced what the OP is on about, or very seldom. I have played a lot of different chars to cap and with a lot of different people, both PUGs and guildies and I have seen/heard/experienced quite often what the OP is about. At one stage it reached a point where some individuals would request me to cure poison, cure disease, remove curse, blindness, etc, etc. Last time I checked all those things were available in a potion. As a cleric, I have limited SP, the SP I waste on things like rem curse etc, is SP that I dont have for healing, ergo, I dont cast rem curse and inform that it comes in a potion.

Interesting. What do you in, for example, the Sands quests when someone in your group doesn't have a stack? Just try to heal through the Healing Curse?

Healing is not just keeping hit points in the positive. I don't see any problem with party members requesting removal of status effects. Of course I might say no, because it isn't necessary (Radiant bursts mean that poisons/diseases don't actually cause many problems), but if the rogue gets cursed if can bork up your chances of getting past the traps.
Unless I know I will need the SP or Turns I'd spend removing it, it beats just waiting around until the effect fades.

I make all my chars self sufficient and whilst I appreciate a heal during combat, I also appreciate what a healer goes through, having played them myself and I heal myself between fights, and I tell the healer to save their SP.

How do you handle keeping yourself healed under heavy damage in-combat? If there are more tricks to it, I'm happy to learn.

You say you havent experienced this much, I say that you either A. Havent been playing very long, and/or B. Mostly stick with friends/guildies.

If you have played since game launch and grouped across the server you would see like others have, exactly what the OP is talking about.

I've not been here since launch, so maybe that is it. I've been playing healers on Thelanis, Sarlona and Ghallanda , so it is possible that server attitudes are different. In the years that I have been playing, I've been almost exclusively pugging, but I have yet to be told that my only purpose is to make the melees look good.

This cannot be! For the word has been laid down and that is all that matters on the subject!

By Whom?

[SirValentine]

They decided to go rescue the cleric...

Did you read the OP? The Cleric freed himself, he doesn't need their help! Though I'm sure he'd welcome some company on his future road.

In all seriousness - for a very long time the mele classes were dominant (a typical raid would not allow more than 2 aracens and 3 healzors - and 0 rogues)

Heck, 2 & 3 was generous...a limit of 1 and 2 was quite common that I saw back then. A Hjastebot and 2 Hjealbots.