Barbarian: Heavy vs Medium Red Dragon Armor

[crazydamage]

Red Dragon Plate max dex bonus is 2, max dodge 2%
Red Dragon Scale max dex is 7, max dodge 7%
With a barbarian you will easily hit 7% from uncanny dodge.

Assuming 22 BAB at level 25
Plate gives PRR equal to BAB + 6 (22+6 = 28)
Scale PRR equal to 2/3BAB + 4 (14.6+4 = 18.6)

% reduction = (1 – (0.99^PRR)) × 0.65 (from ddo wiki)
For plate, 28 PRR = 15.94% less dmg = 84.06% dmg received
For scale 18.6 PRR = 11.08% less dmg = 88.92% dmg received

85% * 0.98 (2% dodged) = 82.38%
88.92% *0.94 = 83.58%

From this I conclude that on a barbarian, red dragon plate vs scale are roughly equivalent.

Awaiting assessment by others.

[Musouka]

Shouldn't this be in a class discussion?

[djl]

4% physical DR is nothing, especially considering you give up 5% dodge AND a precious feat to get it. To put it in perspective, let's say mobs on Epic Elite hit for 150 damage average. That's a fair estimate. At 150, a 4% difference is about 6 damage per hit. Nothing, particularly when you should have 1k+ HP.

Barbarians do not naturally get Heavy Proficiency, so you either have to splash fighter (which reduces your DPS considerably-- that 10% glancing damage from the Capstone is huge-- particularly since with Destinies you will likely be hitting for 130+ a hit) or give up a feat. You'd be better served using that feat on Great Cleave or Improved Sunder.

I did all this math many times on my own character-- and for a short time I actually did have Heavy Proficiency. I am much happier now that I dropped the feat and gained Great Cleave and Overwhelming Critical. The benefit of having super-high strength is that your attack bonus is high enough to allow you to use heavy armor without totally gimping your accuracy from the non-proficient penalty. I wouldn't recommend it as general practice, but situationally there are some very nice Heavy armors such as Firebreak.

[bbqzor]

Well, it gets a bit harder since PRR values have dimishing returns to factor in as well. I prefer PPR to Dodge generally, since its more predictable to heal. However, as the previous poster says, because one option takes a Feat it somewhat breaks any comparative-ness. In the end, its almost better (but not quite) to spend a feat on something like Mobility, and I think that more or less everyone can say thats not worth it on a barb.

I've run the numbers for my barb, and while I conclude that the Heavy Armor one does (after my gear/build/etc) result in better defense at times, its not enough to be worth the feat. Mathematically, it mattered most on Epic Normal (which is irrelevant, he can solo this either way), somewhat in Epic Hard depending on the mob in question (enough that it would be noticeable, but I'm not sure it would be enough actually change what I could or couldn't do, just make successes easier), and virtually none at all on Epic Elite (which is really where build concerns should probably aim at this point).

If you want to be able to solo Epic Normals a lot easier while grinding xp or something I suppose it could make an okay temp build you planned to swap out of later. But I would never recommend it for something as "end game" as Red Dragonscale crafting. You won't want to recraft that in any fashion; sticking to scale and spending the feat elsewhere is the way to go.

[cru121]

You only compared PRR vs Dodge. What's the AC difference? Or is AC completely irrelevant for Barbs in epic elite? If you can hit 10% miss chance, instead of the minimum 5%, that's enough to compensate for the 5% less dodge.

You could also slot Greater Twilight for +2 max dex (i.e., +2 dodge). You could perhaps also find a slot to wear cannith crafted mobility for additional +2 max dex (+2 dodge). Does this affect the math somehow?

[HalfORCastrator]

I have about 9%+ prr(14+) using Hide of the Goristro and can get up to 14% max dodge.

6% uncanny dodge
4% addy cloak of wolf
3% grim's bracelet
1% eldritch dodge ritual

Of course, I don't get the extra 4 seeker(and damage is king!), but I don't have my comms yet.

Then again, the Dragonscale Hide has a mdb of 15.

Hide(Light red) = ~8% prr, 14-15% dodge - 92.94% * .86 (14% dodged) = 79.92%
Scale(Med red) = ~11% prr, 7% dodge - 88.92% * 0.94 (7% dodged) = 82.69%
Plate(Heavy red) = ~16% prr, 2% dodge - 85% * 0.98 (2% dodged) = 82.38%


Note:
You messed up, calculated .94 instead of .93 for medium armor(7%).

You only compared PRR vs Dodge. What's the AC difference? Or is AC completely irrelevant for Barbs in epic elite? If you can hit 10% miss chance, instead of the minimum 5%, that's enough to compensate for the 5% less dodge.

We get all these minuses, minus here, minus there, minus everywhere. AC is totally worthless unless you're not raged. If you're not raged you're playing your barb wrongly. (The numbers I've seen on my barb have been 20-40 ac, sometimes below 20. How good is that on epic elite, or even epic hard? Yeah)


EDIT:
Fixed factors and math.

EDIT:
Actually, let me show you my work:

Barb BAB=23
23/2=11.5+2=13.5=13

As per wiki:
10 prr = 6.22%
20 prr = 11.84%

11.84-6.22=5.62

5.62*0.3=1.686

1.686+6.22=7.906% prr

EDIT:
Typing it all out made me realize another error, fixed above.

[Ivan_Milic]

Even after your rage is over due to the bug you will still get minus to ac(think players said its because of fury of the wild destiny).