Self Healing Improvments

[licho]

Hi,

This suggestion is writen from the perspective of leveling up barbarian without much gear (all get on the way) and mostly duoing with hire elite.
It may be different with better gear, but from the other side not every new player have good gear from the start, and i hope he is playing a little worse than me, so its even harder.

Basicly there is inequality in access to self healing, classes as WF wizard or arti , or all FvS have a very good one, and it dont seem to cost them much (at least not a stuff which really counts) while others have nothing.

There are also silver flame pots, but this is grind, and selective pack - much harder to obtain than stack of 200 repair scrolls in you are neighbourhood store. Moreover SFP is overkill in most situacion i would like some choices between cure serious and SFP.

There are some build options, like HE Cleric dil, or splash rogue but they dont give just a healing but a whole package. For example Rogue means: Evasion, SA, Trap skill, UMD cure on others, UMD alligment bypass, UMD anything you can (tenser transformation, stoneskin, true seeing), haste/dmg boost on separete counter. So a lot of good stuff, where self healing is just a part.

In the end it all comes to choices. Its nice to be able to choose from either Gaxes, Swords, Flachions, Hammers, Rapiers, Scimitars, Longswords, Khopeshes as the primary weapon of choice and be effective. And this is as well desirable to have a choice and options to self heal.

So here come the idea of inprovments:

I. Cure critical wounds pot CL 11-12.
Simple as that, cost 150pp, may be a little more rare like only in house J store or Sovereign Host temple but should be avaiable. There already exist CCW wands so this is not balance changer. Even if decision about lack of CCW pots fo made for the reason that must be before level cap of 20. And now mobs hit much harder.
The CL could be a little higher (like 11-12) so it will not affect early game, but will be more revelant in content where its needed.

II. Extended Vigor Pots.
This is totally new stuff:
The effect last 3 min, and in duracion each 6 sec cure with positive energy for small amount (1-5). So max 30 tics for max 150HP over 3 min.
The pot pop in 5 sizes from least to major. Least vigor cures for just a 1 hp per tick, major one heals for 5 hp per tick.
This pots only drops as loot or end reward. (similar to mnemonic pots) in stack of 5.
The extended vigor do not stack with himself. Better version overwrites lesser, and each drink just set the timer of 3 min.
It also dont stack with jerky and with Druid stuff. But stack with Bard song.

Note: Actually this is not a new stuff, since there is already a Jerky, hams, driad's something which i used to know... however most of this drops in 1d6 quests, while it could drop everywhere.

Note: this is so much annoying when i won the encounter but before going forward i need to chuck the pots. Or run-jump-drink. This serves no purpose since i won, and i have all the time to recover, just need to press single button several times for same effect... boring.
In combat this constant healing dont really change much, since in 15 sec encounter even 25HP is nothing. (its like single serious pot)

Reminder1: Its Drop Only. So its similar to Major Mnemonic, count how much healing can be generated from single major.

II.2 The other aproach is to popularize the "meal" type drops. The general rule is:
You are occupied for 12 sec. (cant do anything else but nom, and can be intterupt) at the end of the duracion you restore 50-100 HP.
Againt it serves purpose of more smooth recover after encounter. The meal may be located in breakables, so there will be the point of all this ransack.

III. Regeneration upgrade.
Currently avaiable version of 1hp/15 sec is such a joke. Nobody every uses that for regeneration. It should be set to more like 5hp/12sec for greater version.

So here comes the new formula:
Regeneration: 5hp/60 sec
Improved Regeneration 10HP/60 sec
Greater Regeneration 25HP/60 sec.
All 3 stacks with each other as well as extended vigor pots, druid vigor, and bard vigor.

Some other aproach may be base regeneration on con mod. (thats not mine)
Like you regenerate each 60 sec for 1/2/3 HP per con mod. This aproach is also nice Maybe even better than static. Regeneration is kinda trollish, so characters with troll con should have it better.

Some of the extisting items should be looked into again. For example ring of trollish regeneration could be upgraded to improved version, so Greatclub of Scrag.

The crafting level of tier 1 lowered to 60 divine, and 2 tier introduce at level 120.

The regeneration of 2 first tier is added to loot tables.

IV. Vampirism Upgrade (kinda)
The problem of Vampirism is thats is nice bonus to already good item.
So its ok for stonedust wraps since they are already good item. Also note that handwraps hits more often, and monks have inherit HA, so for them vampiric wraps are better than for any other. Generally monks are the only class where vampirism is anything good.
Epic Chaosblade is also just good weapon with or withou vampirism.

What to do:
Lesser Vampirism is jUst +2 enhancement and still cures 1hp/hit
Vampirism is +4 enhancement and still cures 1d3/hit.
A greater vampirism is introduced and it cures 1d6/hit. (+6 enhancement)
The epic Vampirism is introduced and it cures 2d6 (+9 enhancement but not to craft).

In SoraKatra chain upgraded 2h weapons gain Vampirism rather than lesser vampirism. Basicly 2h weapons hit less often so they should have a edge here.

Lesser Vampirism and Vampirism are now added to random generated loot. ( i have never seen them on random).

Epic Vampirism is just for epic item, and 2h weapons. Up2 devs when and for what to use it.

Note: This is not really buff but more making vampirism more avaiable, since now its overpriced.

V. Bodyfeeder and life shield is upgraded (kinda)
The enhancement is nice, but its just not scale well. It should have some extra levels:
Lifeshield/Bodyfeeder 15 hp/1min +2 enhancement
Improved Lifeshield/Bodyfeeder 30 hp/1min +4 enhancement
Greater Lifeshield/Bodyfeeder 50 hp/1min +6 enhancement

Some items could benefit from better version of it. Like Heroic Deneith Heavy Chain.

Also added to loot tables, and maybe some future update could bring some good named loot with that.

VI: Life restoring shield and armor.
This is a chain of enhancement from +2 to +6.
Each tier grants a 10% on being hit chance to cast cure on wielder.
The cure is from simple cure to critical cures and caping with heal.
It may be cannith crafted (at least to tier 4).
So basicly Healer Bounty is now in more variants.

VII. Mark of Healing and Marks in general.
This is general problem with marks as all, since there is so many option to acquire special abilities via gear that paying 3 feats for some semi useful spells with limited use per day is just the deal.

The solution is to make Mark of X a single feat.
Spending enhancement points on it will both increase the number of uses per day, as well as unlocking new tiers. So for single feat and 10 AP hhalfings could get this 5 HEals and more cures.

VIII. Initiate of the Faith is buffed
Now it have 10 uses per day. and heals 1d4 per level hit points.

IX. Repair and Heal skills are now useful to something.
You can use repair and heal to stabilize.
Or use it on alive target to restore to him skill check amout of hit points. Additionally:
DC20 remove blindness
DC30: Remove disease
DC40 Remove poison.
DC50: Restore 1d4 stat lost.
DC60: SIngle neg level resotred.
Can be use on both self and others.
Reaching higher DC also applies effect lesser effects.

Moreoever Repair skill now reduce dmg taken to the gear.

X. Healing/cureing clikies.
I bet there could be a little more cure clikies in the game as either random or named.

XI. Paladin lay of hands regenerate over time. (like 1 shot per 90sec)

XII. New Feat Able Learner (int 13) [skill]
CHoose one skill, this skill is now on your multiclass skills list, so you can have max ranks there.

So now, everyone can pick missing skill which he really wants, like ranger can do traps (at least this earch will be used for something), or anyone else can pick the UMD if consider this skill so important.

XIII. New Feat: TrollBlood (con 13, tougness)
You restore single hp every 6sec.

XIV. Drunk Master Enhancement Line (AP cost)
This would be a line where each tier increase CL of pots consumed, as well as increase the healing/repair effect of them.

Now discusion:
1. Self healing should not be a rare feat, stuff like buffs are vanity, since you dont need it to questing. But without hp you are dead. Some classes have of course better self healing, but everyone should be able to top himself in between combat in possibly not annoying way. Cliking cure serious 10 times is annoying as hell. Its ironic that its easier to buff yourself with clikies than restore health.

2. There are silver flame pots, however they are grind to get, require several packs to stack, are often overkill to what is really needed, and hit to stats which not all builds can take.
Comparing it to repair scrolls is like hell and heaven.
There is a lot of space between cure serious pots, and sfp when it comes to self healing.

3. The idea of "you need to suffer to get self healing" got mythbusted. WF arties or wizards, or any FvS have some nice self healing (and others healing) while do not losing any killing power. Often they bring more utylity to the party than typical barbarian or fighter.

4. This will not be a nerf to self healing classes, since they could use all the ideas as well. Moreoever there is always a value in being able to hit yourself with 150 hp base in mid of combat.

4.1 At least in case of Rangers there is a extra case that they sucks. They have poor spell selection, unbalanced FE groups, not enough dps outside FE, poor Temp III pre, no capstone, and no class abilities after lv 12.
Improving self healing of fighters or barbarian will not reduce viability of rangers, since they are weak at the beggining.

5. Advice of "just splash rogue for umd" is wrongly placed. Playing other class is not the solution, in the same way we can say that instead of playing Fighter just go with melee FvS your blade barier, eSoS, dot dps will be just fine, and you will have all self helaing in the world as well as high party utylity.

6. Gear is part of build.
- If you go halfing, or splash rogue you possible loss some dps.
- If you use Khopesh of Water and Kronzek Cruelty you lose some dps but gain other stuff.
- if you use Vamprism, bodyfeeder, regeneration , lifeshield, and life restoring gear you also lose some dps. (or lose other aspects, like hp pool, saves)

There could be more than one way to build for, and several trade-offs.

BTW: You dont splash rogue just for selfhealing. You splash for evasion, possible trap skills, alligment bypass, all fancy wands/scrolls. (restoracion anyone?). Self healing is not worth 2 levels of class.

7. Healing Ampitude is not something which make the ideas broken, HA is something you build for, and posssible make some trades off. If there is no trade offs with gaining high AH there is probably the source of unbalance.

8. It will not kill the healer role. And even if it will be only for good.
There will be always the spot for guy who can hit whole party with 200hp heal. SInce that always speed up questing, specializacion in party generally impves general performance. Moreover if smbd is healing able, as well as can provice some usefull buffs and not to bad dps he will be even more valuable member.
In the end in heroic content there should be no need for healer role at all. Since waiting for this one guy sucks.

9. Hireling is just one way to self heal, why not to have more? Hires are dumb, go berserker against mobs, and refuse to heal when you need it most, always step in wrong place. If smbd can spend PP for hire, he should be able to spend pp on better healing potions.

10. There will always be a place for PUGing. I PUG for company, extra fun, possible speed up completicion. Actually may ideas will only improve puging since there will be less a need of "wait for a healer" or " Be BYOH or ****", and people will be more encourage to roll with any class setup.
And no, micromanagment of hire is not fun. If someone want to skip hire, but instead do the quest hard way, he should be presented with some alternative ways of selfhealing.

And thats it for a while.

Maybe i will add something in future.

[laurawilder]

"Self healing should not be a rare feat", "Some classes have of course better self healing, but everyone should be able to top himself in between combat in possibly not annoying way"

These statements alone show how you actually do not get it in the big picture. No, everyone from every class should not get the ability to self heal between combat.

Why then would you want or need any divine classes? What good would a dragon mark for the haflings be? If you want a human barbarian to heal as well as after each fight.

What you want is already in place. Most quests have enough shrines to rest in between fights. If you do not treat "heal" as a useless skill and raise that you will gain more at each shrine.

After each quest is done you get all healing back. Until it is accomplished you could be at risk so "This serves no purpose since i won, and i have all the time to recover"makes no sense.

In the end rather than asking for easy buttons to make you selected build simplier and wiping away lore and benefits and abilities of others, you need to learn to play the game, or try another class.

In the end since you do not grasp the big picture your silly notions only would help solo playing barbarian builds and would weaken many others.

Maybe we should just make all classes that can heal like rangers, bards, clerics and palis able to have the same dps benefits and hp and dr as barbarians that would accomplish the same thing correct?

[Silverwren]

We've been asking for Cure Critical Potions for some time now, and I've always thought that regen for the players was a joke (go whack a troll and see how fast HE regens).

Ranger healing could stand some improvement.

I'm not too sure about the rest. Maybe a little overkill in some areas. There's some ideas in here that could work.

[Mikula]

/not signed

With all the stuff you are suggesting that would give the barbarian the self healing ability of a paladin right now which is way out of line. In the PvE balance paladins sacrifice dps for versatility and self healing. If you want to self heal as a melee play a paly.

We already have a mechanic that gives players an unheard of amount of "self" healing. You yourself said you're already using it, hirelings. That is all the self healing a Barbarian should need. The hireling builds may not be the best but they are decent enough and their blue bars will last from shrine to shrine. Their AI is **** but you work around it and come up with tactics. Running straight into large mobs without thinking about your red bar should not be encouraged.

I'm not sure you realize how much these changes would really shake up the whole balance of the game. If suddenly everyone is able to keep up their health like this it all goes into easy mode. I think the game strikes a good balance of keeping soloing doable while making pugging still have value.

And I'm sorry but we should not be comparing the self healing of a PC to that of a troll just like we shouldn't compare a PC's health bar to that of the Lord of Blades.

[justagame]

(sigh) Not this again.

I'm shocked -- shocked, to see that healing classes can, <gasp> heal themselves!

[licho]

(sigh) Not this again.

I'm shocked -- shocked, to see that healing classes can, <gasp> heal themselves!

If you havent noticed this is not topic blaming self healing classes for doing so, but suggestions to improve stuff which already exist in the game but dont work, dont scale, isnt as popular as should be. In the end about giving characters options to gear up, build for. You have some aversy to options or what?