Advice on TR

[MagnusXI]

Hello Everyone,

Apology: I originally posted this in Custom but realized there is a Classes forums ( i thought it had to go in one of the categories, what i get for not looking)

Background:
I just got my Artificer to 20, (8-16 from stone) and have played a few characters 1-10 but playing the later levels as my artificer i realize that I really dont know alot about these quests, and would like to TR to a class that would get invites steadily so i can learn them.

Cleric:
I was thinking cleric would fit nicely, i was thinking a cleric/monk, since it seems fun and keeps with being able to be a cleric.

Questions on Cleric:
Would this be a good option for a born again player?

I read that you should only splash 3 monk if you are melee, why is this? can a 17/3 still main heal later content?

Closing:
I understand that with a 3 splash i wouldnt be able to be an offensive caster, I can live with that, but could i melee/heal? (understanding that some quests/situations i wont be able to do both at the same time)

Bard:
Bard was my other thought, as it is very versatile and would be able to get invites.

Questions on Bard:
Is it a good option for a born again player?

Will it get invites like a cleric?

Closing:
my issue with bard is i would want to melee (which from my understanding would take warchanter) and crowd control ( which takes Virtuoso?) is there a build that would meet both my needs?

Other Options:
I am open to other options but it would have to be something i can get into groups with so would be needed/wanted and something that isnt relied on to know the maps well like a trapper.

[Hellllboy]

TR means you go from level 20 and reincarnate to a 34 or 36 stat point level 1 character.

Usually when you TR-you want to make sure you are all geared up for your next life.

No matter if you go Cleric or Bard-(personal preference for you)-I would suggest reading up a little bit on gear that may benefit you-grind it and then utilize it with your next life. All your saved gear will go into a Storage to be pulled out as you see fit.

Good luck and congrats on your advancement to level 20!

[hcarr]

For a bard you can take any pre and just have a melee build. You can crowd control easily with fascinate and irrisistable dance when its needed. You will not get invites like a cleric but if you build yourself right( take some metamagics) and are able to heal halfway decently with certian groups they will make do with you healing and skip the cleric.

[licho]

Hi,
Grats on cap. Keep going.

Some notes:
- TRing could be stresful experience, since you need like 60% more xp to cap. And obviously it take more time, sometimes with farming certain quest repeatedly which may be not so fun. I would advise against TR for the sake of it.
- If you TR you may think of "what past life will help me for ultimate toon". And for example try to catch some casters tr on one toon, and melee past lives on other.
- Artificer PL may be good for a any UMD user (Rogue, Bard, splashes)
- There is a option to use your other toon slot for leveling other toon. You can park your arti at 20 and sometimes run raids with it wile leveling "proper way" another toon. In the end you will have some choice of caped toons for different roles needed.
- The cleric is most welcome class (maybe exept wizard soloist), however it may be welcome from wrong reason. Some people not only expect from clerics being "smarter hire", but also expect imposible.
- What the toon can do is often no matter of build but gear, so well geared 18/2 can heal same.better as fresh pure.

As for build: I would rather go with wis cleric with melee option.
Which means either 2Monk splash, or 1Fig/HE depending whats avaiable for you. It will be easy to find party, and you will have good soloing options. Divines have more powerful tools than bards.

[MagnusXI]

TR means you go from level 20 and reincarnate to a 34 or 36 stat point level 1 character.

Usually when you TR-you want to make sure you are all geared up for your next life.

No matter if you go Cleric or Bard-(personal preference for you)-I would suggest reading up a little bit on gear that may benefit you-grind it and then utilize it with your next life. All your saved gear will go into a Storage to be pulled out as you see fit.

Good luck and congrats on your advancement to level 20!

That sounds good, ill see what gear is worth grinding out, which would give me a little more experience with the quests and since im a higher level the lower ones should be easier.

For a bard you can take any pre and just have a melee build. You can crowd control easily with fascinate and irrisistable dance when its needed. You will not get invites like a cleric but if you build yourself right( take some metamagics) and are able to heal halfway decently with certian groups they will make do with you healing and skip the cleric.

so are you suggesting pure? with just building some feats melee and some meta? i dont know if ill have enough feats and if i splash wont it hurt my CC/Healing

Hi,
Grats on cap. Keep going.

Some notes:
- TRing could be stresful experience, since you need like 60% more xp to cap. And obviously it take more time, sometimes with farming certain quest repeatedly which may be not so fun. I would advise against TR for the sake of it.
- If you TR you may think of "what past life will help me for ultimate toon". And for example try to catch some casters tr on one toon, and melee past lives on other.
- Artificer PL may be good for a any UMD user (Rogue, Bard, splashes)
- There is a option to use your other toon slot for leveling other toon. You can park your arti at 20 and sometimes run raids with it wile leveling "proper way" another toon. In the end you will have some choice of caped toons for different roles needed.
- The cleric is most welcome class (maybe exept wizard soloist), however it may be welcome from wrong reason. Some people not only expect from clerics being "smarter hire", but also expect imposible.
- What the toon can do is often no matter of build but gear, so well geared 18/2 can heal same.better as fresh pure.

As for build: I would rather go with wis cleric with melee option.
Which means either 2Monk splash, or 1Fig/HE depending whats avaiable for you. It will be easy to find party, and you will have good soloing options. Divines have more powerful tools than bards.

this gives me mixed feelings, seems my past life would help bard more than cleric, but cleric would get me more invites and i think it would be funner. maybe ill play with another slot like you suggested and see which i want to play, and use arty to gear it

But also why not 3 monk for the fists of light/25% SP cut? is it not work the hits to SP/DC?

Note: I should have said earlier but i am V.I.P so i have access to all except the new expansion.

Thanks for the advice guys.

[HastyPudding]

//snip//

this gives me mixed feelings, seems my past life would help bard more than cleric, but cleric would get me more invites and i think it would be funner. maybe ill play with another slot like you suggested and see which i want to play, and use arty to gear it

But also why not 3 monk for the fists of light/25% SP cut? is it not work the hits to SP/DC?

Note: I should have said earlier but i am V.I.P so i have access to all except the new expansion.

Thanks for the advice guys.

18 cleric/2 monk is the standard 'Clonk' build. It's an excellent solo build and still able to heal effectively in parties as well as deal decent dps. However, by taking 2 monk you lose your cleric pure lvl 20 capstone (an automatic raise-dead that goes off when the target 'dies'), some SP, and your ability to wear armor except for robes/outfits and the use of shields. On the other hand, you gain evasion, a wisdom bonus to AC, +2 wisdom and extra saves from using ocean stance, and the ability to use handwraps effectively.

Taking 3 levels of monk isn't advisable. You're losing a decent chunk of sp and several important spell slots. With 3 monk you will lose 3 lvl 9 spell slots, 2 lvl 8 spell slots, and 1 lvl 7 spell slots, all of which have some very useful spells. And, once further cleric PrE's come out (they only have 1 currently) you won't be able to get tier III of any PrE, as they require level 18. The gain from 3 monk just doesn't balance out what you lose.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Cleric with a monk splash in ocean stance has a better DC than a full cleric (not including optimal gear where they tie) but lower spell pen.

The big problem you will have is, where do you slot your devotion item while keeping a real weapon equiped.


As far as bards, they are much, much stronger than most people realise and you might have trouble getting into groups lead by such people. Or any group that already has a bard since you will be seen as a redundant buff bot.

[Jeromio]

Just a little warning... there are people around that are hesitant to invite non-pure clerics (maybe because of bad experiences or lack of knowledge concerning healing... who knows).
This might lead to sometimes being rejected, even though you're able to heal just as well as a pure cleric.

[HastyPudding]

Just a little warning... there are people around that are hesitant to invite non-pure clerics (maybe because of bad experiences or lack of knowledge concerning healing... who knows).
This might lead to sometimes being rejected, even though you're able to heal just as well as a pure cleric.

I've never had an issue having clonks join my LFM's, or even clerics that have 1-2 levels of fighter. I do, however, ask in the case of rogue splash clerics whether they can do traps. The vast majority of them that I've seen are absolutely horrible with traps; there's a few good ones and a whole lot of bad ones.

[Rawrargh]

Hi, grats on level 20!

Since you're VIP the first TR isn't gonna be that bad... You only need 3.1 million xp wich isn't all that bad. However I'd advice you to level another character to about 10 and do the first 4 quests in necropolis I, the first 3 quests in delera's and the first 4 quests in necropolis II.
That way you'll be able to open and farm 3 of the best xp quests at low level and should be able to breeze through.

Secondly if you decide on doing a clonk you will most likely want to find a non-weapon devotion item since ardor clickies are no longer the way to go... if you know anyone who's been leveling cannith crafting you can put devotion on a ring, thus freeing up your weapon slot for dps wraps. At low level you could use the wraps from delera's for devotion: http://ddowiki.com/page/Devotion_%28handwraps%29

About the pure vs splashed cleric... I see no point in going pure cleric since the capstone is situational at best where as evasion and +2 wis isn't... same goes for 2 free fighter feats... or a free metamagic + force enhancements for blade barrier from splashing wizard. However keep in mind that most groups are inviting you to heal so make sure you put those AP into the healing lines and atleast try to prevent people from dying.

... Also for the love of god DO NOT put stuff like "I do not heal stupid" in your bio... it makes you look like an ass.

Oh yeah one last thing. Make sure you get a greensteel accessory before TR'ing, they're still the best items in the game for TR's since they have a minimum level of 11 - I'd advice you to get a pair of concordant opposition goggles with either SP or HP.

[MagnusXI]

Once again thank you all fpr your advice,

Hi, grats on level 20!

Since you're VIP the first TR isn't gonna be that bad... You only need 3.1 million xp wich isn't all that bad. However I'd advice you to level another character to about 10 and do the first 4 quests in necropolis I, the first 3 quests in delera's and the first 4 quests in necropolis II.
That way you'll be able to open and farm 3 of the best xp quests at low level and should be able to breeze through.

Secondly if you decide on doing a clonk you will most likely want to find a non-weapon devotion item since ardor clickies are no longer the way to go... if you know anyone who's been leveling cannith crafting you can put devotion on a ring, thus freeing up your weapon slot for dps wraps. At low level you could use the wraps from delera's for devotion: http://ddowiki.com/page/Devotion_%28handwraps%29

About the pure vs splashed cleric... I see no point in going pure cleric since the capstone is situational at best where as evasion and +2 wis isn't... same goes for 2 free fighter feats... or a free metamagic + force enhancements for blade barrier from splashing wizard. However keep in mind that most groups are inviting you to heal so make sure you put those AP into the healing lines and atleast try to prevent people from dying.

... Also for the love of god DO NOT put stuff like "I do not heal stupid" in your bio... it makes you look like an ass.

Oh yeah one last thing. Make sure you get a greensteel accessory before TR'ing, they're still the best items in the game for TR's since they have a minimum level of 11 - I'd advice you to get a pair of concordant opposition goggles with either SP or HP.

So after talking to you guys i believe clonk18/2 is what i want and will start gathering gear for it prior to TR. Unfortunitly ill have to do alot of research on the craftings as i dont know anything about either. and perhaps make another artificer and build him for crafting.

As far as the "I do not Heal stupid" no way that is one of the reasons i am playing it, and plan to learn when i can and cannot melee. but i also wont let them force me to the back just because they prefer me there.

[HastyPudding]

Once again thank you all fpr your advice,



So after talking to you guys i believe clonk18/2 is what i want and will start gathering gear for it prior to TR. Unfortunitly ill have to do alot of research on the craftings as i dont know anything about either. and perhaps make another artificer and build him for crafting.

As far as the "I do not Heal stupid" no way that is one of the reasons i am playing it, and plan to learn when i can and cannot melee. but i also wont let them force me to the back just because they prefer me there.

Sounds like a plan. A good idea is to get the Gauntlets of Eternity from the Reaver's Fate raid in Gianthold. There really aren't many good glove slots for clerics/fvs, and these give a healer everything they need and are great when upgraded. This frees up your hands for handwraps, etc.

[MagnusXI]

Sounds like a plan. A good idea is to get the Gauntlets of Eternity from the Reaver's Fate raid in Gianthold. There really aren't many good glove slots for clerics/fvs, and these give a healer everything they need and are great when upgraded. This frees up your hands for handwraps, etc.

Thank you for the suggestion, ill look into it, is there a thread that i can look at that has more of these suggestions? or do i basically need to just research?

[MoonRunner]

My 2nd life(for my cleric) was a 3/17 clonk and I loved it. Level 3 allowed me to allign the heavens there by giveing me a 25% sp cost reduction or effectively making my 2200 sp =2750. So in addition to increasing my effective sp I could buff the party mellee, prevent stun and add healing hit or whatever that one is called. Whatever you do, if you are going for a melee clonk then max wis and get stunning fists.

As far as building a toon so it will get invites perhaps you should look for a guild or a better guild if you are not getting them from your current one. A TR buddy or group would also be very nice.

The biggest advice I can give you is since you self admitedly, need to learn the quests better build yourself a nice healbot and sit back and pike and heal. That and soloing are the best two ways to learn a quest. Definately go 3/17or 2/18 and 12-14 dex for your reflex saves or the evasion was a waste of classes.

BTW My Bio sais "If you get feebleminded I can help you, but I have no cure for stupidity. Stay with the group." Does that count as I dont heal stupid? :P

[HastyPudding]

BTW My Bio sais "If you get feebleminded I can help you, but I have no cure for stupidity. Stay with the group." Does that count as I dont heal stupid? :P

I like that one.

"My blue bar is not your red bar."