Fatesinger or Shiradi for ranged builds?

[HatsuharuZ]

Fatesinger has alot of ways to increase your ranged damage, and they are what I like to think of as 'static' damage sources. That is, they are reliable and act when you need them to.

On the other hand, Shiradi has alot of random procs, and I believe that one can get up to a 35% chance for something to happen once you get to level 5 in the ED. However, you can't control what procs, and the buffs Shiradi gives to ranged attack and damage are mostly conditional and thus more difficult to gain and use.


All other things being equal, if you had a ranged build that had fully unlocked Shiradi Champion and Fatesinger, which would you use?

[Glenalth]

I've got both maxed out, and I'm liking Shiradi far more just because of how much CC that it can add to your bow. Nerve Venom, rainbow stat damage, double rainbow random helplessness procs, pin, and otto's combined with some 900pt slaying arrows due to sense weakness make for some good times. It also does wonderful things to my Spike Growth.

Fatesinger was still entertaining, but nothing felt special with it. The extra +3 to attack and damage from the nerfed Tailwind is less than you're getting from Shiradi auto-grants. Reign is nice, but is a vorpal proc and most of an archer's damage spikes are already loaded on those. The 10% speed increase from Echoes of the Ancestors is probably the most interesting, but it can be twisted without issue.

[FuzzyDuck81]

I'd personally go with shiradi too, but then i love that destiny The rainbow procs can be a lot of fun, and its hilarious when the knockdown one goes off & leaves a rednamed boss on his backside

[Persiflage]

Personally, I reckon there's no contest...

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Shiradi Champion

Shiradi static ranged buffs:

+2 to hit and damage from autogrants
Automatic ghost touch from autogrants
20% enemy dodge bypass from autogrants
Up to +10 luck bonus to hit from Fey Favor (I find it builds up to max very quickly, and stays there)

Shiradi procs:

Favourable Winds - 7% chance for 10d10 sonic
Fey Power - 7% chance for 2d100 force damage
Prism - 7% chance for 2d10 stat damage
Rainbow - 7% chance for 1d100 extra <random> damage
Double Rainbow - 7% chance for <+++OUT OF CHEESE ERROR +++ REDO FROM START+++>
Nerve Venom - 7% chance to paralyze

_________

Fatesinger

+3 to hit and damage from autogrants
+3 to hit and damage from Tailwind (doesn't stack with Wind Howler bracers though, and you only get it while Inspire Courage is running)
Reign - 9.5% to 19% chance (vorpal chance depending on crit range, assuming you confirm on a 2[*]) for 11d20 sonic and 11d20 electrical damage (depending on crit range), lasts three minutes, costs a song
Echoes of the Ancestors - 10% attack speed increase

_________

So, with Shiradi, you have a 35.31% chance of getting at least one effect per attack, and with your Fey Favor stack maxed you'll pretty much never miss. You get slightly more static damage out of Fatesinger, assuming Wind Howler Bracers. You could argue that Echoes of the Ancestors is a not-to-be-missed, straight-up 10% DPS increase, but as Glenalth points out, you could twist that into Shiradi and never look back. Also, there's an opportunity cost associated with keeping your Fatesinger songs running (without them, you're getting pretty much nothing), while Everything Shiradi Just Happens.

All of that aside, possibly the most important aspect of Shiradi - one that is not in any way duplicated by Fatesinger - is that Shiradi is made out of PURE FUN! It makes me smile, constantly.

Regardless of its relative power compared to destinies for other character types, they got that absolutely right and I hope (probably in vain) that they never mess with it.




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[*] Which, in the case of some mobs - and particularly bosses - you won't.

[Aliss7]

The 10% speed increase from Echoes of the Ancestors is probably the most interesting, but it can be twisted without issue.

I just got this last night and haven't really tested the speed increase. I noticed though that the BAB ranged tooltip does not show a 10% speed increase (It doesn't show the ranger capstone increase either), so I'm skeptical that this even works.

[Ape_Man]

Fury of the Wild.

[Glenalth]

I just got this last night and haven't really tested the speed increase. I noticed though that the BAB ranged tooltip does not show a 10% speed increase (It doesn't show the ranger capstone increase either), so I'm skeptical that this even works.

It doesn't seem to show anything except haste and other enhancement bonuses.

[maddmatt70]

Neither for many ranged builds. Fury of the Wild is amazing on a ranged build one adrenaline while manyshotting is 4 arrows at 1,500 pts of damage or greater depending on your build. An archer can reach updwards of 10,000 points of damage per shot while standing safely 30 ft away.

[Glenalth]

Neither for many ranged builds. Fury of the Wild is amazing on a ranged build one adrenaline while manyshotting is 4 arrows at 1,500 pts of damage or greater depending on your build. An archer can reach updwards of 10,000 points of damage per shot while standing safely 30 ft away.

For a limited amount of times, that needs to be recharged through melee, and that has been stated by a dev as not WAI with Manyshot.

It does work out pretty well for the melee ranger that wants some good bursts of damage with their free bow feats though.

[maddmatt70]

For a limited amount of times, that needs to be recharged through melee, and that has been stated by a dev as not WAI with Manyshot.

It does work out pretty well for the melee ranger that wants some good bursts of damage with their free bow feats though.

I have not seen the dev post that you reference. In the vast vast majority of quests in DDO there are many shrines and for the majoirty of bow range builds this is the best destiny the vast majority of the time and it really is not that close.

[Glenalth]

I have not seen the dev post that you reference. In the vast vast majority of quests in DDO there are many shrines and for the majoirty of bow range builds this is the best destiny the vast majority of the time and it really is not that close.

Here's the initial note and the dev response from the Lamannia forums.

I will still argue that adrenaline in combination with when combined with exalted smite or MS/IPS is crazy broken

There was a bug at one point where Adrenaline could last for multiple hits of Manyshot. That should be fixed now, and if it isn't, expect that to change at some point!

I had read it as meaning you wouldn't get multiple adrenaline hits per volley, but it could be about some other bug.

[zealous]

I had read it as meaning you wouldn't get multiple adrenaline hits per volley, but it could be about some other bug.

I'm not sure if you are referring to the situation where multiple draws of the bow string would all retain adrenaline effect or that all 4 of the arrows would hit with adrenaline on one draw of the bow, or maybe you were referring to both.

Iirc there was once a bug where you would retain the adrenaline buff after making a ranged attack, what he wrote seemed to indicate that he was referring to that situation.
MS is one attack that get's 4 arrows fired at the same time. Adrenaline is correctly removed by one attack, yet you get the buff to all arrows of that one attack.

Never got a clear answer.

[maddmatt70]

Never got a clear answer.

I hope they do not change anything about fury for ranged combat.. That it works well for range is great.. I never liked shiradi as it never really fit my style. I am not sure that fury is exactly my style either, but it is fun..

[slimkj]

All of that aside, possibly the most important aspect of Shiradi - one that is not in any way duplicated by Fatesinger - is that Shiradi is made out of PURE FUN! It makes me smile, constantly.

This this this.

[krackythehoodedone]

They are changing the Adrenalin to not work with Manyshot (well thats what i thought i read) ?

However I am doing really silly damage with Adrenaline rush and manyshot

Its 10,000+ damage and the crit is pretty much auto cos i crit on a 13 anyways.

However i'm still thinking Shiradi for overall Ranged bonusses. Pin is especially good

I'm just ploughing through Fury of the Wild on my way to Fatesinger

Glenalth, given that Shiradi will ultimately be your chosen stance what are you going to twist in ?

Thats mainly why i am working towards Fatesinger anyway

[Glenalth]

Glenalth, given that Shiradi will ultimately be your chosen stance what are you going to twist in ?

Currently set up as:
Tier 1: Brace for Impact
Tier 1: Fast Healing / Energy Sheath / Unearthly Reflexes / Primal Scream, depending on quest
Tier 4: Sense Weakness / Gird Against Demons / Echoes of the Ancestors: Shiradi / Grim Precision, depending on quest

If I'm not doing anything special, it will just be Brace for Impact, Fast Healing, and Sense Weakness.

And at some point going to upgrade another tier 1 to 2 just for a few more options, but a bit burned out on grinding XP.