Barbarian or Fighter?

[Thozy]

I'm going to make either a barbarian or a fighter THF, but I'm not sure which to choose. I want to deal a good amout of damage and somewhat good surviveability.
So if I could get any advice with which class to choose and maybe link to some builds, I would be gratefull. Thanks.

[countfitz]

A "bit" more info would be nice. For instance, how many build points (28 or 32) and what race do you want to play?

I'd say, if you are completely new, Fighter gives you many, many feats, and lots of options, and lets you make mistakes without really noticing them.

You can, as a fighter, take all the THF feats, Cleave, great cleave, Improved Crit, power attack, Epic O crit, toughness, (multiple times if you're lazy, but I wouldn't, I think that's a waste) and then have about 5 or 6 more feats left to play with, and then some. I'd take at least 2 tactical feats, one debuff and one Crowd control, others would argue take all of them or most of them. I'd go Improved Sunder and Improved Trip, personally.

I'd put all my skill points in UMD so you can scroll/wand heal.

OR, go half-elf cleric dilly, which would let you self heal a bit too, and put your skills where ever. But they're ugly.

Horcs are prettier, and give nice bonuses to THF.

Those are the two races I'd pick. Human is "fine" but you already have so many feats, you really want to try a different race that gives different benefits, IMO. Even Dwarf, for the ax bonuses.

[AidanRyuko]

they are very close together but to put it simply, barbarians have slightly better chance at maxing hp and pure strength and at later levels you will be able to keep rage up entirely, whereas a fighter has better feats to support tactical feats like trip and more importantly critical hits which enables you to be able to land crits on high AC monsters.

Both roads will pay off in dps and comes down to preference, I don't have the time to do an extensive comparison but I'm sure there are enough people that do. If you want a proper dps guide on a thf check out shades post in this same forum, a buddy of mine made a new character with his build (28pt) and did really well with it, its userfriendly.

[licho]

Its one of this ancient questions: who is cooler Pirates or Ninjas?
Every in indiivual way.

Answearing OP question:
I would go with Pure 20 Barbarian, with race of HOrc, Human, Dwarf.
Reason:
- You have few feats to menage. So its harder to screw.
- You get nice class perks (uncanny dodge, speed buff, more skillpoints, supreme cleave)
- You have some very strong synergy with 2H style.

The problem i have with dps fighters is that all they get as class feature is +2 to dmg with limited weapon selection at best, which is both disapointing and blunt. There is no enought cool martial feats in ddo (comapring to pnp).

[Zorth]

at least 6 fighter or 6 Barbarian, with a combo of both, that way we can have a combo of Epic destiny and not just limited to one. I would go 12 Barbarian, 8 fighter, or 12 Barbarian, 6 fighter, 2 of whatever. or 6 barb, 6 fighter, 8 whatever. If we go 20 we are limited in our Destiny. But the combinations are in the 1000's. going pure limits Fate!

[unbongwah]

OP: I consider barbs to be more "idiot-proof" as THF DPS builds, because feats are so tight you don't have a lot of options as to what to take. They also don't specialize in specific weapons the way a Kensai does, which means you can grab whatever's the best 2H weapon you can find and do well. It's also possible to combine the two; barb 6 / ftr 12 is/was a popular combo, usually with a rogue 2 splash.

[akash]

For THF definitely a Horc or Dwarf Barbarian. Fighter is DPS wise far far away than a pure Barbarian, and people usually play Fighter for tanking and TWF purposes. If you want good survivability don't go THF line just make a one handed tower shield bearer max AC and PRR Paladin or Fighter.

[AidanRyuko]

I don't really agree that fighter dps is far far away, you are doing it wrong if that's true. I have 3 barbarian lives and 3 fighter lives and the difference in dps is minimal, I did take 1 or 2 levels of each class every life though, IE when you go fighter and get 1 barbarian level you get the following: passive extra 10% run speed and barbarian sprint boost, heroic durability (+20hp), rage, barbarian power attack and some

if you go barbarian with two fighter levels you get this out of it: Fighter accuracy (Crit bonus), Fighter haste, Fighter str I, you get a bunch of feats but those aren't that spectacular, you do get 1 more feat to pick I think.

I'm currently a fighter as well so I get the chance to list what enhancements I got to help with dps:
Half orc Str I & II
Fighter Str I & II & III

Racial Toughness I & II
Fighter Toughness I & II & II

Power attack
Orcish power attack I & II & II
Barbarian power attack I

Kensei *insert weapon* mastery I & II
total: +2 to hit, +4 to damage and to crit rolls, +8 to critical damage before multipliers (so 24 extra damage on a greataxe)

Fighter Accuracy IV (+8 to crit rolls)

Fighter Kensei II
better tactical uses like Trip, which is extremely useful if you want to survive properly against enemy casters
On top you also get Power surge for a minute which gives an additional +8 strength.

Fighter weapon specialisation +1 dmg
Orcish melee damage +2 dmg

Weapon Aptitude III (+6% chance to start magical effects on glancing blows)

Oh and might as well add my feats to it, this is with 2 Barb 16 Fighter levels.
Cleave + Great Cleave
Fast Movement (10% speed)
THF, Improved THF and Greater THF adding another 30% to glancing blow damage and 9% chance on adding magic properties to em

Weapon focus (+1 attack)
Greater weapon focus (+1 attack)
Superior weapon focus (+1 attack)
Weapon specialization (+2 damage)
Greater weapon specialization (+2 damage)

Improviced critical (doubles your chance to crit with any weapon within the weapon type you choose, similar effect as keen)

Heroic durability (+20hp)

Power attack

Power critical (+2 to crit rolls and +2 damage before modifier)

Rage + past life rage (+8 without doing anything, +4 without past life)

Trip

[akash]

I don't really agree that fighter dps is far far away, you are doing it wrong if that's true. I have 3 barbarian lives and 3 fighter lives and the difference in dps is minimal, I did take 1 or 2 levels of each class every life though

That is because you are experienced multi TRed and most of the time multi-classed you builds properly. On the other hand, for a non TRed (perhaps even 28 point builds f2ps) pure class THF build Barbarian DPS is much more uber than Fighters, and I have tested it in my first life builds with similar gears. Do fighters get more glancing blows than barbarians? Do fighters have supreme cleave, frenzy and death frenzy? Do fighters can easily raise their STR high enough like barbarians? No they can't. So barbarians will always rule the THF line no matter what. Maybe TWF fighters can out DPS barbarians but that is not what OP is looking for. Also I always discourage newbies to multi-class unless they know what they are doing.

[Jsbeer]

I'd go with a Pure Barbarian since you aren't restricted to a particular weapon. A sample build that works well would be (for a Half-Orc):


Str 20 + 5 Levels
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 6

Basically Max STR, get a high CON and put any spare in DEX for higher reflex save.

Skills: Balance, Spot and remainder in Jump. 2 in Tumble at start.


1 - Two Handed Fighting
3 - Power Attack
6 - Cleave
9 - Improved Critical: Slashing
12 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
15 - Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 - Great Cleave
21 - Overwhelming Critical
24 - Stunning Blow or Toughness


Humans and Dwarfs are good choices too, and Humans can get both Toughness and Stunning Blow since they have an extra feat.

[Thrudh]

I'd go with a Pure Barbarian since you aren't restricted to a particular weapon. A sample build that works well would be (for a Half-Orc):


Str 20 + 5 Levels
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 6

Basically Max STR, get a high CON and put any spare in DEX for higher reflex save.

Skills: Balance, Spot and remainder in Jump. 2 in Tumble at start.


1 - Two Handed Fighting
3 - Power Attack
6 - Cleave
9 - Improved Critical: Slashing
12 - Improved Two Handed Fighting
15 - Greater Two Handed Fighting
18 - Great Cleave
21 - Overwhelming Critical
24 - Stunning Blow or Toughness


Humans and Dwarfs are good choices too, and Humans can get both Toughness and Stunning Blow since they have an extra feat.

I'd get Stunning Blow long before maxing out the THF feats... It's much more useful while leveling. Get Stunning Blow at level 1. Helps a ton with survivability. A stunned or tripped oppponent does not swing back.

And for a new player, I'd suggest toughness early on too.... Human might be a good choice for the extra feat so he can start with both toughness and stunning blow. Or take two fighter levels for the extra feats. An 18/2 barbarian/fighter is very solid.

[licho]

As for feats, you are free to skip Toughness. Barbarians have enough HP anyway. To some degree can start with lower con and buff a little dex for reflex.

What helped me most at leveling was PA, Cleave, Great Cleave and IC.
And this feat i would made primary. The stun is not so helpful before gianthold, since elsewhere even casters fall down fast - as well as you cant stun undead.

[Thrudh]

The stun is not so helpful before gianthold, since elsewhere even casters fall down fast - as well as you cant stun undead.

Remember, we're talking about a new player who won't have all the twink gear and the knowledge of the quests you do... Things will not die as fast for him.

[Thozy]

Remember, we're talking about a new player who won't have all the twink gear and the knowledge of the quests you do... Things will not die as fast for him.

I'm not a new player. And I got 32pt.
I will go with a pure barb horc.
20 STR
12 DEX
16 Con
8 INT
8 CHA
6 WIS

Spending my SP on intimidate, jump and tumble and dropping out jump for balance when my jump is decent.

[Therigar]

IMO the poster who noted that fighters have better access to combat feats while barbarians generally have more CON/STR has is right.

In terms of DPS with THF that is very subjective because it depends on a lot of things. In a sterile environment probably barbarian comes out ahead if everything aligns right. OTOH, DDO rarely provides a sterile environment. And, the differences in DPS probably won't be evident to most players unless the two builds are vastly inferior/superior to one another.

So, mostly, it is a matter of playing style. Fighters get a lot of combat feats which may (or may not) be useful. Barbarians go RAWR!

Pick whichever gives you more enjoyment.

[count_spicoli]

Hmmm. Both have pros and cons but i waY prefer ftr myself. I love supreme cleave and frenzied but the dmg you do to yourself to maximize dps is rough. Also the only thing you can do raged besides swing is chug guild pots.

On the other hand ftrs can cast from clickys, dont hurt themselves can achieve better ac amd 4 tiers of ftr haste boost is ridonculous especially with twf and hv 4 dmg. And if you go with cleric or fvs dilly with helf you can self heal raise dead and buff yourself. It would be very difficult to do that on barb.

[countfitz]

See... everyone saying Barbarian is arguing "because you have LESS FEATS, so it's hard to screw up" (ok, not everyone, but enough that I can't just respond to one poster) and that to me is wrong, unless the OP just copies a cookie cutter build and has no options... which he kinda did ask for.

To me a fighter is much harder to screw up, because there are so many feats he can mess around with all the options a melee character can have.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

And to Thrud: Honest question, why Stunning and not Trip? I see this a lot, I personally like trip more on a fighter, stunning on a monk, and really never even fit it into a barb build, especially now with all the feats needed for epic OC. So, why is stunning better on a barbarian (and, in fact, is it better on a fighter too?)

[licho]

And to Thrud: Honest question, why Stunning and not Trip? I see this a lot, I personally like trip more on a fighter, stunning on a monk, and really never even fit it into a barb build, especially now with all the feats needed for epic OC. So, why is stunning better on a barbarian (and, in fact, is it better on a fighter too?)

Improved Trip calls for CE which is another stat investment and tome as well as feat.
Stun is easier for barb to preq.

And as for stun... i recently leveled up 32 human barb without any alts help. And it was quite good, the kicker was early cleave and great cleave for all this moments when you are swarmed by kobolds/goblins/scelies/ogres. I dont really miss stun, till GH (got it at 12) but then pop the problem that when content is hard enought to stun matter it not always land - well life - maybe with dwarf or HO it will work better.

[count_spicoli]

Problem with monk is hp. I have a hard time hotting 600 on monk. On kensaii ftr 1000 is achievable with still great dmg and tactics

[Stormraiser]

18 barb 2 fighter