Yes the new epics are easy - still not an excuse

[Hobgoblin]

First off - I was the leader of the group and should have shut things down earlier. ya its my fault i admit it

yes evon5 and 6 on epic hard is easy (now) but that is no excuse.

if you are good enough that you can sleep walk through the quest - then do so and dont carp and critize everyone else in the raid.

i should have realized when the "uber" people kept dying and people not listening that we were screwed and not tried to do 6

but really guys - is it that hard to listen to directions like, hobgoblin go to base 3, darkwin to base 2, caster to base 1. prep your genies do not kill them, if the mob is facinated dont hit it.

I mean really?


wttf!


well i got a lot of xp outta 5 at least

I am not a doomsayer - but i wish that the diff was hard enough that people require use tactics.

sigh.

thanks for letting me vent - now i guess i have to start treating the hapless pugs the way they need to be treated.
"what you arnt listening? gtfo! now biznitch!"

cheers.

hob

[Ivan_Milic]

Yea,for some people that is really hard.
Just watch in Shroud if someone dcs and leader says dont open chest,someone will open,1 out of 10 people wont open.

[Mastikator]

but really guys - is it that hard to listen to directions like, [snip]

Unfortunately yes, this is really hard for some. I wish these people would just not join raids though :/

[Qhualor]

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[Ranncore]

Been saying this in other threads -

You're better off shortmanning your raids than PUGing them. Any of the eberron e-hard raids can be easily done with 6 players.

[Brattyone]

...

but really guys - is it that hard to listen to directions...

I've had the opposite problem. I've done very few raids because I've mostly soloed up until a couple of months ago. I recently joined a chrono raid on one of my alts and before joining I told the leader that I had no clue what to do/where to go but with a little instruction I'd be useful. The person responded with, "No problem, glad to have you join." So the raid started and things were fine until we enter the marketplace where everyone split up. I was fine with not getting any instruction during this part because I can read the objectives...kill monsters. No problem. But then at some point people started going in places. some went into the bank. some went into the tavern. some went...somewhere else. And throughout all of this no one was talking to anyone else, certainly not the leader giving me any clue. The raid finished ok but it didn't warm me up to grouping. I've tried a couple of others and got similar results. Now, I'm not asking that someone give me long and overly detailed instructions...but some basic "don't do this" or "go over there and pull that lever when I say" kind of thing would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll just skip out on raids and continue soloing.

[Hobgoblin]

I've had the opposite problem. I've done very few raids because I've mostly soloed up until a couple of months ago. I recently joined a chrono raid on one of my alts and before joining I told the leader that I had no clue what to do/where to go but with a little instruction I'd be useful. The person responded with, "No problem, glad to have you join." So the raid started and things were fine until we enter the marketplace where everyone split up. I was fine with not getting any instruction during this part because I can read the objectives...kill monsters. No problem. But then at some point people started going in places. some went into the bank. some went into the tavern. some went...somewhere else. And throughout all of this no one was talking to anyone else, certainly not the leader giving me any clue. The raid finished ok but it didn't warm me up to grouping. I've tried a couple of others and got similar results. Now, I'm not asking that someone give me long and overly detailed instructions...but some basic "don't do this" or "go over there and pull that lever when I say" kind of thing would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll just skip out on raids and continue soloing.

good point. i was doing a lil bit of this in the raid - but usually i over tell people what to do. was feeling a lil tired - so when raid started just asked if anyone was new - no one spoke up - so i didnt give my usual speech
now if there is a newbie in the group, i may not tell them everything - but i do lead them around and show them a large portion of it.


my bad.

hob

[Qhualor]

I've had the opposite problem. I've done very few raids because I've mostly soloed up until a couple of months ago. I recently joined a chrono raid on one of my alts and before joining I told the leader that I had no clue what to do/where to go but with a little instruction I'd be useful. The person responded with, "No problem, glad to have you join." So the raid started and things were fine until we enter the marketplace where everyone split up. I was fine with not getting any instruction during this part because I can read the objectives...kill monsters. No problem. But then at some point people started going in places. some went into the bank. some went into the tavern. some went...somewhere else. And throughout all of this no one was talking to anyone else, certainly not the leader giving me any clue. The raid finished ok but it didn't warm me up to grouping. I've tried a couple of others and got similar results. Now, I'm not asking that someone give me long and overly detailed instructions...but some basic "don't do this" or "go over there and pull that lever when I say" kind of thing would be helpful. Otherwise, I'll just skip out on raids and continue soloing.

thats one big problem with the epic raiding now. communication was extremely important before the changes to epics or there was a good chance you could fail.

ive been in some raids where it was basically take the first 11 and go. in record time, the raid would be over and anybody new would be struggling to figure out what happened or be poked fun because they died in an EH raid. ive been in some groups where it was the sloppiest with no strategy involved raid and would have surely failed before the changes. groups like that would usually fail or really struggle just making the run to the bank or wipe before even getting to 3rd base.

making the epic raids with such poor difficulty settings designed have opened the door to a lot of casual and new players, where before they never would think to join in the first place or even not be allowed into the group without proper gear and hp. the downside to this is carry new people through the raid, no strategy required and boring completions. the current raiding scene is in no way helping people learn anything or using their brains. sure we can get easy loot now, but theres no bragging rights anymore.

i havent said i had fun in an Echrono in quite some time. right now, endgame doesnt appeal to me and im glad i stopped doing it. it felt too much like an over geared 20 running a casual tempest spine. when i have to use the club of the holy flame to run an ehard raid just to have fun, than its time to take a break and wait to see what happens.

anyone who wants to say "if EH is too easy, theres EE" they might as well not bother typing that.

[Brattyone]

thats one big problem with the epic raiding now. communication was extremely important before the changes to epics or there was a good chance you could fail.

I would have liked this.

making the epic raids with such poor difficulty settings designed have opened the door to a lot of casual and new players, where before they never would think to join in the first place or even not be allowed into the group without proper gear and hp. the downside to this is carry new people through the raid, no strategy required and boring completions. the current raiding scene is in no way helping people learn anything or using their brains. sure we can get easy loot now, but theres no bragging rights anymore.

i havent said i had fun in an Echrono in quite some time. right now, endgame doesnt appeal to me and im glad i stopped doing it. it felt too much like an over geared 20 running a casual tempest spine. when i have to use the club of the holy flame to run an ehard raid just to have fun, than its time to take a break and wait to see what happens.

anyone who wants to say "if EH is too easy, theres EE" they might as well not bother typing that.

While I would like some instruction, I also want it challenging and not just for me but for others in the group as well. My hesitation to join groups for raids didn't have as much to do with hardness difficulty really. It was about seeing more and more people talking about not taking certain people because of some, imo, stupid reason. What I'd like to see is a better balanced hard difficulty and a little better communication. But hey...I'm nowhere near a vet or power gamer or whatnot; so what do I know?

[Ungood]

Challenge is Lame.

No, really it is. If I wanted "Challenge" I would not farm quests. If I wanted "Challenge" I don't want 1% drop rates.

Sorry, but sleep walk me through it, and I'm happy, knowing I gotta do this moronic raid/quest again and again till my eyes bleed and I am totally sick of it.

If people really wanted "challenge" they would be running EE, nuff said.

[KillEveryone]

I don't lead as many pugs as I used to because people don't listen to requested directions. Used to put up a LFM all the time but people don't bring their own heals when it says so in the LFM, people don't always listen to simple directions to get something done.

I would much rather run with guildies and friends or solo the quest before I put up a LFM and only resort to the LFM if I need something specific like one that can deal with traps on epic elite chest farming.

I don't mind new players. I have no problems at all with one that doesn't know the quest. I'm happy to help and teach those that wish to learn something about it.

It is the ones that just don't want to follow directions when something specific is being requested that annoy me.

[Tirisha]

I know the first von 6 EH I ran since MOTU was a guild run, we all got to our bases to prep and were completely caught off guard by the menial HP the djinns had and they drop so fast multiple bases had theirs down by accident.

[Seph1roth5]

Yeah I had a similar von 5/6 today where no one listened to me in part 6. I know the djini are easy too but can the raid can still be messed up if people just charge in swinging. I had fascinated fire base and one guy kept waking up everything grrr.

[grgurius]

Challenge is Lame.

No, really it is. If I wanted "Challenge" I would not farm quests. If I wanted "Challenge" I don't want 1% drop rates.

Sorry, but sleep walk me through it, and I'm happy, knowing I gotta do this moronic raid/quest again and again till my eyes bleed and I am totally sick of it.

If people really wanted "challenge" they would be running EE, nuff said.

Well why are you running it then if you are sick of it?

And if you want to sleep walk it trough, run in on normal.

[Ew_vastano]

there is a simple answer i always have even in eh at least 3 or 4 channel guild members, easy they are the only people sent to bases everyone else pikes at home base

on a side note you still fascinate bases?

[stoerm]

but really guys - is it that hard to listen to directions like, hobgoblin go to base 3, darkwin to base 2, caster to base 1. prep your genies do not kill them, if the mob is facinated dont hit it.

If you are dealing with people you don't know, i.e. 99% of all pugs, you cannot assume they know anything. Talk through it as if they are first timers and ignore the sighs from the vets. In this case you need to explain what base 1/2/3 means or tell x,y and z to follow Hob. I've only ever run heroic VoN, maybe 5-6 times, and nobody explained base numbering. Same applies to wiz king tower naming. Asking is often futile as well, it's like insider knowledge. That or most just pretend to know.

Also note that a stoner doing eBaseLvl10-16Anything is probably a first timer.

[Aurora1979]

If people really wanted "challenge" they would be running EE, nuff said.

+1 quoted for truth.

If people were saying EE was a cake walk I could understand but not when they say it about EH.

As for grouping, Its always been a hit and miss affair. I do think its down to the leader (op) though, if they dont communicate then they can't expect the party to follow.

However, op clearly was telling people stuff and it is very frustrating when you're standing there watching someone do exactly the thing you told them not to 1 min ago..... hitting fascinated mobs is just completely typical... drives me mad when I am on my bard especially when people then start whining at me coz a mobs not held!!

[Qhualor]

Challenge is Lame.

No, really it is. If I wanted "Challenge" I would not farm quests. If I wanted "Challenge" I don't want 1% drop rates.

Sorry, but sleep walk me through it, and I'm happy, knowing I gotta do this moronic raid/quest again and again till my eyes bleed and I am totally sick of it.

If people really wanted "challenge" they would be running EE, nuff said.

i guess time sink games arent for you. i played my daughters Zhu Zhu Pets WII game once and found it not challenging. just saying...

[varusso]

"Listening" is an epic elite difficulty. Just ask my 5-yr-old.

[Ivan_Milic]

Before the expansion instructions were always given in epic raids and some harder epic quests where 1 mistake can screw up so much(like in small problem talking with brawn before getting to air ele),but now they are easy as Shroud,when did you see last time someone gave instructions for Shroud?