Lesser Reincarnation Problem

[Relenthe]

SO I bought a +5 heart. My previous level progressions had been:

My plan was the following with -> denoting a class change
Ranger 1
Monk 2
Monk 3
Ranger 4
Ranger 5 -> Artificer 5
Ranger 6
Ranger 7
Monk 8
Monk 9 -> Ranger 9
Monk 10
Monk 11
Monk 12
Monk 13 -> Artificer 13
Monk 14
Ranger 15
Monk 16
Fighter 17 ->Monk 17
Monk 18
Monk 19
Monk 20


I am on the heart of wind airship, and I have taken some monk and rogue levels. I wan to take arti levels at 5 and 13, and change the fighter level back to monk at 17.

However it won't let me take the arti level at 5 since I will supposedly be 4 classes, but I will only be 2 ranger/2monk/1 arti with not taking the fighter level later.

Is there any way I can take arti, or will I have to use 2 lesser reincarnations even though I have enough charges on this heart?

[Moonsickle]

seems you only needed to change 2 levels... a +3 or two +1 would have done that.



since only 2 levels of Artificer... just change FTR to ART at 15 and change one level after that to ART also which would be a non-Monk level I'd take it.


since you're at 20 anyway, where you change levels isn't important UNLESS to need a specific feat only granted by a class [which lvl 5 wouldn't grant a feat but lvl 12 would... changing at 15 is a feat level [you'll lose one taking Fighter away]

to make sure pre-reqs for a feat are in place a class feat, or plan on changing classes again [which any levels after 18 can be tricky and require more than one heart]




You didn't specify your build... like 13-6-1 if that build and dropping to 12-6-2 you'll need to flip a level of the 12 class before level 15 add ART at 15 and during 16-20... make one change for the 2nd ART and another change to make it 12 again.

then you'll be using 4 of your 5 changes which could be why you went with the +5 Heart.


if I'm not being clear enough... if you could post your level by level classes, it will be easier to tell you what to swap... writing it on paper can be a great help too.



Hope I helped... and not further confuse you.



I took a 13ROG-6FTR-1RNG [my 1st character in DDO] and did a +3 LR to change the RNG to BAR at 19 to get to 11ROG-7FTR-2BAR, then a +5 LR to make a 7BAR-7FTR-6ROG to TR with a BAR Past Life...
don't ask why... I just did it.

[Relenthe]

So I went through my notes and edited the op with my level progression, I had taken fighter at 17 and not 15.

This split allows me to get the skills Balance (23), Concentration (23), Move Silently (10), Spot (23), UMD (23), tumble (1) at level 20 with 11 starting int and +1, 2, and 3 tomes, and it required 4 charges.

I'm going to try and find a way to get those skills while taking arti at level 17 and somewhere between 18-20, but I don't think it is possible.

[Relenthe]

Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=27261

Monk 12 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2
Male Half-Elf - Lawful Neutral
________________________________________________________________

PAST LIVES SELECTED:
Fighter (1), Monk (1)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 1
Race Selected: Male Half-Elf
Alignment Selected: Lawful Neutral
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 13, DEX: 16, CON: 15, INT: 11, WIS: 16
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (1), Concentration +4 (4), 
Jump +4 (4), Move Silently +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), Tumble +1 (1), 
UMD +2 (2)
Feats Selected: Point Blank Shot, Half-Elf Dilettante (Rogue), 
Favored Enemy (Construct)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 1 / Ranger 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +4 (5)
Feats Selected: Zen Archery
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 2 / Ranger 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (6), Concentration +2 (6), 
Spot +1 (5)
Feats Selected: Weapon Focus (Ranged), Precision
Tomes Applied: STR: +1, DEX: +1, CON: +1, INT: +1, 
WIS: +1, CHA: +1
Favor Bonus Granted: Coin Lord Finishing School (400 Coin Lord Favor)
Favor Bonus Granted: Draconic Vitality (15 Agents of Argonnessen Favor)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 2 / Ranger 2)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 18
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (7), Jump +1 (5), 
Spot +2 (7), UMD +1.5 (3.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 3 / Ranger 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (8), Concentration +1 (8), 
Jump +1 (6), UMD +0.5 (4)
Feats Selected: Path of Inevitable Dominion
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 3 / Ranger 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (9), Jump +3 (9), 
Spot +2 (9), UMD +0.5 (4.5)
Feats Selected: Dodge
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 4 / Monk 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (10), 
Jump +1 (10), Move Silently +3 (7), Spot +1 (10), UMD +0.5 (5)
Tomes Applied: STR: +2, DEX: +2, CON: +2, INT: +2, 
WIS: +2, CHA: +2
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 4 / Ranger 4)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 20
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +3 (11), Concentration +1 (11), 
UMD +0.5 (5.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 5 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (12), Concentration +1 (12), 
Jump +1 (11), Spot +1 (11), UMD +0.5 (6)
Feats Selected: Toughness
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 6 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (13), Concentration +1 (13), 
Jump +1 (12), Spot +1 (12), UMD +0.5 (6.5)
Feats Selected: Stunning Fist
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 7 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (14), Concentration +1 (14), 
Jump +1 (13), Spot +1 (13), UMD +0.5 (7)
Tomes Applied: STR: +3, DEX: +3, CON: +3, INT: +3, 
WIS: +3, CHA: +3
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 8 / Ranger 4)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 22
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (15), Concentration +1 (15), 
Jump +1 (14), Move Silently +1 (8), Spot +1 (14), UMD +0.5 (7.5)
Feats Selected: Improved Critical (Ranged)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 9 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (16), Concentration +1 (16), 
Jump +1 (15), Move Silently +1 (9), Spot +1 (15), UMD +0.5 (8)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 10 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (17), Concentration +1 (17), 
Jump +1 (16), Move Silently +1 (10), Spot +1 (16), UMD +0.5 (8.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 10 / Ranger 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (18), 
Jump +1 (17), Move Silently +3 (13), Spot +2 (18), UMD +0.5 (9)
Feats Selected: Improved Precise Shot, Favored Enemy (Evil Outsider)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 11 / Ranger 5)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 23
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (19), Concentration +1 (19), 
Move Silently +1 (14), Spot +1 (19), UMD +0.5 (9.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Artificer (Monk 11 / Ranger 5 / Artificer 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: UMD +6 (15.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 11 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +2 (21), 
Move Silently +3 (17), Spot +2 (21), UMD +0.5 (16)
Feats Selected: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Artificer (Monk 11 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: UMD +6 (22)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 12 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 24
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +2 (23), 
Spot +2 (23), UMD +1 (23)
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:288 SP:332 AC:22 FORT:17 REFL:17 WILL:20 BAB:+16/+16/+21/+26
STR:16(+3) DEX:19(+4) CON:18(+4) INT:14(+2) WIS:24(+7) CHA:11(0)
Balance:23, Bluff:0, Concentration:27, Diplomacy:2, 
Disable Device: n/a, Haggle:0, Heal:7, Hide:4, Intimidate:2, 
Jump:20, Listen:8, Move Silently:21, Open Lock: n/a, 
Perform: n/a, Repair:2, Search:3, Spot:31, Swim:3, Tumble:5, UMD:23

So I was able to get this. This finished me with 23 concentration, 23 spot, 23 umd, 17 move silently, 17 jump, and 17 balance. If you can find a way to improve this let me know.

I wish the airship trainer would say something like: You are about to train as an artificer, you will only be able to spend your last charge on the level you took as a fighter in order to avoid 4 classes.


Dumping spot

Character Generated Using: DDO Character Generator
Direct Link to Build: http://www.ddochargen.com/home.aspx?build=27277

Monk 12 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2
Male Half-Elf - Lawful Neutral
________________________________________________________________

PAST LIVES SELECTED:
Fighter (1), Monk (1)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 1
Race Selected: Male Half-Elf
Alignment Selected: Lawful Neutral
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 1)
Abilities Raised: STR: 13, DEX: 16, CON: 15, INT: 11, WIS: 16
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (2), Concentration +4 (4), 
Jump +4 (4), Move Silently +4 (4), Spot +4 (4), UMD +2 (2)
Feats Selected: Point Blank Shot, Half-Elf Dilettante (Rogue), 
Favored Enemy (Evil Outsider)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 2:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 1 / Ranger 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +3 (5), Tumble +1 (1)
Feats Selected: Zen Archery
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 3:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 2 / Ranger 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (6), Concentration +1 (5), 
UMD +1 (3)
Feats Selected: Dodge, Precision
Tomes Applied: STR: +1, DEX: +1, CON: +1, INT: +1, 
WIS: +1, CHA: +1
Favor Bonus Granted: Coin Lord Finishing School (400 Coin Lord Favor)
Favor Bonus Granted: Draconic Vitality (15 Agents of Argonnessen Favor)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 4:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 2 / Ranger 2)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 18
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +2 (7), Jump +3 (7), 
Spot +1 (5), UMD +0.5 (3.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 5:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 3 / Ranger 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (8), Concentration +1 (8), 
Jump +1 (8), UMD +0.5 (4)
Feats Selected: Path of Inevitable Dominion
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 6:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 3 / Ranger 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Concentration +1 (9), Jump +1 (9), 
Move Silently +4 (8), UMD +0.5 (4.5)
Feats Selected: Weapon Focus (Ranged)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 7:
Class Selected: Ranger (Ranger 4 / Monk 3)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (9), Concentration +1 (10), 
Jump +1 (10), Move Silently +2 (10), UMD +0.5 (5)
Tomes Applied: STR: +2, DEX: +2, CON: +2, INT: +2, 
WIS: +2, CHA: +2
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 8:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 4 / Ranger 4)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 20
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (11), Concentration +1 (11), 
Move Silently +1 (11), UMD +0.5 (5.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 9:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 5 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (12), Concentration +1 (12), 
Jump +1 (11), Move Silently +1 (12), UMD +0.5 (6)
Feats Selected: Toughness
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 10:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 6 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (13), Concentration +1 (13), 
Jump +1 (12), Move Silently +1 (13), UMD +0.5 (6.5)
Feats Selected: Stunning Fist
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 11:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 7 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (14), Concentration +1 (14), 
Jump +1 (13), Move Silently +1 (14), UMD +0.5 (7)
Tomes Applied: STR: +3, DEX: +3, CON: +3, INT: +3, 
WIS: +3, CHA: +3
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 12:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 8 / Ranger 4)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 22
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (15), Concentration +1 (15), 
Jump +2 (15), Move Silently +1 (15), UMD +0.5 (7.5)
Feats Selected: Improved Critical (Ranged)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 13:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 9 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (16), Concentration +1 (16), 
Jump +1 (16), Move Silently +1 (16), Spot +1 (6), UMD +0.5 (8)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 14:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 10 / Ranger 4)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (17), Concentration +1 (17), 
Jump +1 (17), Move Silently +1 (17), Spot +1 (7), UMD +0.5 (8.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 15:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 10 / Ranger 5)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (18), Concentration +1 (18), 
Jump +1 (18), Move Silently +1 (18), Spot +2 (9), UMD +0.5 (9)
Feats Selected: Improved Precise Shot, Favored Enemy (Construct)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 16:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 11 / Ranger 5)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 23
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +1 (19), Concentration +1 (19), 
Move Silently +1 (19), Spot +2 (11), UMD +0.5 (9.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 17:
Class Selected: Artificer (Monk 11 / Ranger 5 / Artificer 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: UMD +6 (15.5)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 18:
Class Selected: Ranger (Monk 11 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 1)
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (21), Concentration +2 (21), 
Move Silently +1 (20), UMD +0.5 (16)
Feats Selected: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 19:
Class Selected: Artificer (Monk 11 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2)
Skills Ranks Raised: UMD +6 (22)
________________________________________________________________

LEVEL 20:
Class Selected: Monk (Monk 12 / Ranger 6 / Artificer 2)
Abilities Raised: WIS: 24
Skills Ranks Raised: Balance +2 (23), Concentration +2 (23), 
UMD +1 (23)
Stats at End of Level 20:
HP:288 SP:332 AC:22 FORT:17 REFL:17 WILL:20 BAB:+16/+16/+21/+26
STR:16(+3) DEX:19(+4) CON:18(+4) INT:14(+2) WIS:24(+7) CHA:11(0)
Balance:27, Bluff:0, Concentration:27, Diplomacy:2, 
Disable Device: n/a, Haggle:0, Heal:7, Hide:4, Intimidate:2, 
Jump:21, Listen:8, Move Silently:24, Open Lock: n/a, 
Perform: n/a, Repair:2, Search:3, Spot:19, Swim:3, Tumble:5, UMD:23

gives me Balance 23, Concentration 23, Move Silently 20, UMD 23, jump 18, and tumble 1


message to ira: If you wanted to put in combat archery, change the level 20 stat increase to dex, as well as the 24 stat increase to dex. The difference between the 2 is just skills. I prefer the 2nd as max balance, and spot is still 50+

[Moonsickle]

only thing I could really see to improve your skill points would be starting with 12 INT for the 4 extra 1st level points... but not sure if 4 extra points would actually benefit you in that build and it will leave you with an odd INT score after the +3 tome unless you're planning on a +7 INT later?



The Artificer levels are just for +2 UMD of scrolls? or Rune Arm, but that wouldn't make sense to me as bonus damage is ART level dependent?


If UMD...the Half-Elf Artificer Dilettante can bring you up to a level 4 ART and get you the Scrolls +1, Potions +1, Wands +1 & Armor/Arms +1 feats using 6 AP points through Enhancements [well at least for now... who knows after Enhancement pass]
also makes you a level 4 ART for scrolls and purposes which would be higher than the 2 you're putting in.

you'd need 13 INT to start to get it though...


not knowing your vision of what the final character is suppose to look like stat-wise or what it needs to have to accomplish what you want it to do... let alone gearing...



would think freeing up 2 class levels with the ART Dili might be worth the switching to 13 INT to start... you could in fact make it 12MNK-6RNG-2FTR and gain 2 feats [well 1 over the previous build] while still having up to level 4 ART features might be even better plus 4 extra skill points at level 1...



... or did I miss it before editing... are the ART levels for X-Bow & ranged feats? but Monks can't use those without being uncentered, right? and Rapid Reload is Bow only ... I'm finding myself confused on the inclusion of the 2 ART levels?

[Moonsickle]

forgot...


you would only need a +3 and using only 2 changes... [or only a +1 if you went 12MNK-6RNG-2FTR w/HE ART Dili]




save the +5 if $$$/TP not an issue






change at 17 to new class and I would say 2nd change at 18... if using ART you'll get option for some ART related feats on that level that otherwise wouldn't be available or 2nd change would be at 19 if a Monk related feat is needed at 18.

[Relenthe]

only thing I could really see to improve your skill points would be starting with 12 INT for the 4 extra 1st level points... but not sure if 4 extra points would actually benefit you in that build and it will leave you with an odd INT score after the +3 tome unless you're planning on a +7 INT later?

[COLOR="Red"]So I went with starting 11 int, and managed to get my skills maxed save for 2 points on move silently, so I managed to save myself too much loss./COLOR]


The Artificer levels are just for +2 UMD of scrolls? or Rune Arm, but that wouldn't make sense to me as bonus damage is ART level dependent?

The arti levels give me much more than 2 umd, since it allows me to max it out from 11.5 to 23, so over 10 umc


If UMD...the Half-Elf Artificer Dilettante can bring you up to a level 4 ART and get you the Scrolls +1, Potions +1, Wands +1 & Armor/Arms +1 feats using 6 AP points through Enhancements [well at least for now... who knows after Enhancement pass]
also makes you a level 4 ART for scrolls and purposes which would be higher than the 2 you're putting in.

I went with rogue dilettante for the sneak attack

you'd need 13 INT to start to get it though...


not knowing your vision of what the final character is suppose to look like stat-wise or what it needs to have to accomplish what you want it to do... let alone gearing...



would think freeing up 2 class levels with the ART Dili might be worth the switching to 13 INT to start... you could in fact make it 12MNK-6RNG-2FTR and gain 2 feats [well 1 over the previous build] while still having up to level 4 ART features might be even better plus 4 extra skill points at level 1...



... or did I miss it before editing... are the ART levels for X-Bow & ranged feats? but Monks can't use those without being uncentered, right? and Rapid Reload is Bow only ... I'm finding myself confused on the inclusion of the 2 ART levels?

The arti levels are for the umd and 30% bonus to scroll healing. So just for better self sufficiency, its worth a feat for me

Thanks a lot for your input, responses in red

[Relenthe]

forgot...


you would only need a +3 and using only 2 changes... [or only a +1 if you went 12MNK-6RNG-2FTR w/HE ART Dili]




save the +5 if $$$/TP not an issue






change at 17 to new class and I would say 2nd change at 18... if using ART you'll get option for some ART related feats on that level that otherwise wouldn't be available or 2nd change would be at 19 if a Monk related feat is needed at 18.

I ended up using the +5 since I have no point in saving it. thanks for the suggestion though