Cannith Challenges Untouched

[Ytteri]

Epics give triple experience (to 20+ characters). If you had the same (lack of) over-level penalty, you would get 1600 xp for a 3 star run on heroic.

Oh.

Been quite some time since I ran a challenge for any purpose other than solo token farming, so yeah, I can see now the merit of everyone's complaints.

[totalmir]

Come on guys,why would you want more xp from the overpriced challenge pack when you can have all these beautiful bugs on live servers.Seriously,some people always complain.**** and enjoy the bugs and massive lag Turbine provided us with.
Don't forget to say "thank you devsies" either.

[Zindro]

Hello MadFloyd,

What will the fix be for challenge XP? When will it come?

Thank you.

[Ancient]

It is something easy, and would cheer a lot of people up. Why is Turbine not jumping all over a no-brainer?

[redspecter23]

It is something easy, and would cheer a lot of people up. Why is Turbine not jumping all over a no-brainer?

This right here is my number one issue with anything that ever changes in this game. Sometimes it's honestly a balance fix. Sometimes, it's a clear nerf, and often we need it whether we like it or not. The biggest disappointment is that we don't know the guidelines or direction the game is headed in the developer minds so we don't have any insight into what is balanced or not when it comes to shadier issues.

The challenge xp before the nerf was likely too high. After the nerf, we feel it's too low. Do the devs feel it's just right? Do they envision it higher? How high? We can't possibly know without any communication and that's the most troublesome part. It's been said that devs don't have to communicate on the forums, but perhaps it would be a very good move to give us a bit of insight on the intended direction of the game and what certain expectations should be.

When any sort of nerf happens, there should be an open line of communication explaining the reasons for the nerf and why they feel the new way is better. The response we got was "xp is too high, nerfing to oblivion, thanks for playing!" I think a bit more in depth analysis explaining why the new xp is more in line with what they want would have really helped out. Otherwise, as we are doing right now, we'll assume it was a double mistake and keep asking for dev input until they finally decide to respond on the WAI status of the challenge xp.

At least with this change, it is fairly clear the reasons for the change, even if we don't all agree it was necessary to cut it as far as they did. I'm still waiting to hear why a nerf to abbot loot was required (requiring seals to upgrade to loot which dropped normally before). In my mind, that was a change for the sake of change with no balancing reason to be done. We were never given a reason why it was done and were just told to take it and like it. Turbine, please in the future consider communication with all nerfs. Make us understand why it's necessary and to what degree so that we all don't jump on you, assuming you have no clue or whimsically nerf just for the sake of it.

[Carkolda]

This right here is my number one issue with anything that ever changes in this game. Sometimes it's honestly a balance fix. Sometimes, it's a clear nerf, and often we need it whether we like it or not. The biggest disappointment is that we don't know the guidelines or direction the game is headed in the developer minds so we don't have any insight into what is balanced or not when it comes to shadier issues.

The challenge xp before the nerf was likely too high. After the nerf, we feel it's too low. Do the devs feel it's just right? Do they envision it higher? How high? We can't possibly know without any communication and that's the most troublesome part. It's been said that devs don't have to communicate on the forums, but perhaps it would be a very good move to give us a bit of insight on the intended direction of the game and what certain expectations should be.

When any sort of nerf happens, there should be an open line of communication explaining the reasons for the nerf and why they feel the new way is better. The response we got was "xp is too high, nerfing to oblivion, thanks for playing!" I think a bit more in depth analysis explaining why the new xp is more in line with what they want would have really helped out. Otherwise, as we are doing right now, we'll assume it was a double mistake and keep asking for dev input until they finally decide to respond on the WAI status of the challenge xp.

At least with this change, it is fairly clear the reasons for the change, even if we don't all agree it was necessary to cut it as far as they did. I'm still waiting to hear why a nerf to abbot loot was required (requiring seals to upgrade to loot which dropped normally before). In my mind, that was a change for the sake of change with no balancing reason to be done. We were never given a reason why it was done and were just told to take it and like it. Turbine, please in the future consider communication with all nerfs. Make us understand why it's necessary and to what degree so that we all don't jump on you, assuming you have no clue or whimsically nerf just for the sake of it.

Very well said. However, I'm quite certain I'm not the only one that would have not purchased the Challenges if their xp was as abysmal as it is now. I feel like I got bait-and-switched. And if it's such an easy fix (since it was such an easy double nerf), why aren't they doing it? It feels like betrayal.

[Ladywolf]

yah, I bought the challenges because of the experience awarded

[Zindro]

Did they fix this yet?

[Doperogue]

Could a DEV or QA Chime in here with an Answer? Alot of us paid money for this content, and would enjoy running it more if you fixed the XP.

It's hard enough even finding people who are still willing to run the challenges due to the bad exp or they plain just dont want to buy it due to that.

Fixing the XP, Stating that there has been a positive improvement/change, Will allow you to sell more Challenge Packs from the DDO store.

[Fejj]

yes we are still planning on upward-adjusting the XP for Challenges, though it's going to require a new formula. In the current form, trying to aim for the middle using the XP adjuster tool still results in some challenges being way too low, or some being way too high. The formula pass is still slated to happen before the end of this year (aiming for 16 but there is a possibility that it may slip into a subsequent patch).

Dev Tracker is your friend

[Carkolda]

Thanks Feji. I guess if they are taking this long to fix their mistake, I have to wonder why they didn't take this long when they screwed us the first two times. Shouldn't this testing have been one before they changed the XP levels?

[Kinerd]

Thanks Feji. I guess if they are taking this long to fix their mistake, I have to wonder why they didn't take this long when they screwed us the first two times. Shouldn't this testing have been one before they changed the XP levels?

The trick here is that Turbine is not literally monolithic. This is speculation, but I'm pretty confident it is accurate speculation...

Highly Paid, Highly Out of Touch Executive: Whoa! That challenge xp is way too high. Nerf it!
Poorly Paid, Overworked Developer: Well, uh, actually...
HPHOTE: Do it or you're fired! Ok bye!
#the next day#
HPHOTE: Whoa! That challenge xp is way too high. Nerf it!
Separate and Distinct PPOD: Well, you see the thing is...
HPHOTE: Do it or you're fired! Ok bye! (to self) Wow, deja vu!
#the changes are grudgingly and independently implemented, unbeknownst to either#
HPHOTE: Ok this update we need MORE TREES! I don't see enough trees! Everyone make trees!
PPODs: Well, we were thinking we would tweak up the challenge xp....
HPHOTE, crossly: I see your mouth moving, but I don't hear anything about trees.
PPODs:
HPHOTE: Plus that xp was way too high!! :bluffing: It would have to be fundamentally reworked for me to even consider allowing a tweak!
PPODs: Well, we suppose we could squeeze in a complete overhaul in a few months by staying late an hour here or there...
HPHOTE: How many times do I have to say "trees" before I fire you?
PPODs: ...

Scene.

[Carkolda]

The trick here is that Turbine is not literally monolithic. This is speculation, but I'm pretty confident it is accurate speculation...

Highly Paid, Highly Out of Touch Executive: Whoa! That challenge xp is way too high. Nerf it!
Poorly Paid, Overworked Developer: Well, uh, actually...
HPHOTE: Do it or you're fired! Ok bye!
#the next day#
HPHOTE: Whoa! That challenge xp is way too high. Nerf it!
Separate and Distinct PPOD: Well, you see the thing is...
HPHOTE: Do it or you're fired! Ok bye! (to self) Wow, deja vu!
#the changes are grudgingly and independently implemented, unbeknownst to either#
HPHOTE: Ok this update we need MORE TREES! I don't see enough trees! Everyone make trees!
PPODs: Well, we were thinking we would tweak up the challenge xp....
HPHOTE, crossly: I see your mouth moving, but I don't hear anything about trees.
PPODs:
HPHOTE: Plus that xp was way too high!! :bluffing: It would have to be fundamentally reworked for me to even consider allowing a tweak!
PPODs: Well, we suppose we could squeeze in a complete overhaul in a few months by staying late an hour here or there...
HPHOTE: How many times do I have to say "trees" before I fire you?
PPODs: ...

Scene.

Then who do I have to scream at at Turbine HQ to have these people fix their inter-rectal cranium impactitus? Because I'm still upset at this issue, and a "rework" that is being done instead of simply removing the nerfs is a pretty poor response to player outrage.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

They know people will continue to play and pay even with a sharp stick planted firmly in an eye.

They give us updates with weak-sauce fixes to specific things that by and large only affect a very narrow margin of players.

But they non-stop DROP THE ELFING BALL on some of the issues that affect a HUGE NUMBER of players.

They only seem to give an elf about some easy stuff they can fix quickly to perform a "smoke and mirror" type update that looks like it could do something for someone but absolutely FAILS to address most of the far reaching a blanket bugs and ages old known issues.

Handwraps: Still Bugged in many many ways. SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in the eye.

Healing Spell Power: Still Bugged. The Fix will be bugged. SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in the eye.

Mob standing 5 feet RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU "You are not facing..." "Out of range...." SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in your eye.


The fact is DDO models all of life.


Buddhist type quote......"Life is Suffering" SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in your eye.


Ever feel like you are paying for privilege to be annoyed with the stick in your eye that comes with DDO entertainment?

[bibliomane]

They know people will continue to play and pay even with a sharp stick planted firmly in an eye.

Healing Spell Power: Still Bugged. The Fix will be bugged. SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in the eye.

Mob standing 5 feet RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU "You are not facing..." "Out of range...." SOLUTION: Get better acquainted with the stick in your eye.

Ever feel like you are paying for privilege to be annoyed with the stick in your eye that comes with DDO entertainment?

I feel this pain.

[Purkilius]

TURBINE DEV listen:

As I understand it the challenges were nerfed due to lvl 18 and 19´s were doing epic challenges and getting huge amount of xp.

The fact is the lvls 18 and 19 are really slow and the action is not the way it used to be so change it back NOW and you will make some precious money.

[Carkolda]

It amuses me that when a group of players that have to slog and grind through the 2-3 worst levels in the game find a way to get XP rolling in (in 8-10k increments, mind you), the initial knee-jerk reaction by the devs is to destroy the xp reward for the entirety of the challenges.

They failed to identify the primary cause of the problem: There isn't enough content at the top levels (17-20) that makes pushing through to 20 easy. So punishing the entirety of the playerbase (treating the symptom) was easier than making more quests at the 17-20 range (treating the disease). The first nerf was bad enough, but the second nerf was really the kick in the ass.

[Farayon]

It amuses me that when a group of players that have to slog and grind through the 2-3 worst levels in the game find a way to get XP rolling in (in 8-10k increments, mind you), the initial knee-jerk reaction by the devs is to destroy the xp reward for the entirety of the challenges.

They failed to identify the primary cause of the problem: There isn't enough content at the top levels (17-20) that makes pushing through to 20 easy. So punishing the entirety of the playerbase (treating the symptom) was easier than making more quests at the 17-20 range (treating the disease). The first nerf was bad enough, but the second nerf was really the kick in the ass.

Well said.

[MRMechMan]

It amuses me that when a group of players that have to slog and grind through the 2-3 worst levels in the game find a way to get XP rolling in (in 8-10k increments, mind you), the initial knee-jerk reaction by the devs is to destroy the xp reward for the entirety of the challenges.

They failed to identify the primary cause of the problem: There isn't enough content at the top levels (17-20) that makes pushing through to 20 easy. So punishing the entirety of the playerbase (treating the symptom) was easier than making more quests at the 17-20 range (treating the disease). The first nerf was bad enough, but the second nerf was really the kick in the ass.

This. People go where the XP is. Particularly when you need a million+ of it for the last levels, and a huge amount of that content is mediocre xp.

People weren't running to challenges, they were fleeing from cannith quests, amrath and IQ1 and their 3-4k base xp with 8000hp mobs.

They still aren't fixed btw. 6 starring a lava caves (not easy, solo) gave like 14k for first time bonus and about 3k for repeats....eugh...used to be 3x that. Don't even get me started on rushmores/kobolds and some of the 15-20minute ones. Flawlessly executed, the best xp quests in the game at level 7-16 give 3k-4k xp/min, or more...why should challenges be nerfed THIS much?

They WERE too high, particularly for epic characters, but taking away a decent source of xp for lvl18-20 characters was not a good move IMO...I see so many TRs stuck at lvl18 straight up QUIT the game that they have to be losing revenue just based on that....challenges being a viable option at that lvl was a good thing.

I do find it ironic that they can flip a switch (without telling anyone, lol) and cut the XP in half (then another 30% lower a few weeks after that), but they cannot unflip the switch and make them decent xp again.

I haven't seen a cannith challenge lfm in weeks that wasn't my own.

[Zindro]

The challenges did need fixed. The first nerf was alright and needed. They also needed to nerf the 5 minute challenge exp. But I quit the game over wha they did. Just completely make challege exp irrelevant while saying some bullcrap about evening out the EXP throughout challenges.