Healer Druid Review

[Cesious]

Well Mark, when you get done for the day we're all going to get on your case about it for another viewpoint on the setup. The UMD should work pretty well, might have had to dump cha in instead of str for it though. The extra feat is always helpful on a feat starved class at the end of the day. SF/GSF evo with max/emp would pull out nice power for a caster, emp healing for heals, quicken for several things. Wish we at least had 1 or 2 bonus feats so I could grab all of those on top of toughness/mental toughness/imp mental toughness.

Wish we could get some confirmation about why it isn't being sped up, because that would remove the biggest need for the cleric dili. Though it could still prove useful in plenty of situations.

[Mark2422]

Warning: This build is tailored to suit me and my own play style. Some things may not be what you consider “optimal” or even “worth it”. But feel free to point that out if you feel inclined to do so.

Markeyx - Cleric - FvS - FvS - Wiz - Druid

Druid 20, Epic 5
Exalted Angel 5
Human

Base Stats:
Str: 8
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Int: 8
Wis: 16
Cha: 16

Geared Stats:
Str: 8 + 6 item + 3 tome = 17
Dex: 14 + 6 item + 3 tome = 23
Con: 16 + 6 Item + 3 exceptional + 3 tome = 28
Int: 8 + 3 tome = 11
Wisdom: 16 + 7 item + 4 exceptional + 3 Tome + 5 enhancement + 6 levels + 6 ED = 47
Cha: 16 + 7 item + 3 exceptional + 3 tome = 29

Notes: Caster Druids have 3 dump stats. Str, Int, Cha. With Int 8 I was still able to take 3 skills +1 for being human. Strength I originally had at 12 and was always in wolf form and meleeing quite well up to about level 11. Even though I was a pure caster build. I played it as a melee until I reached the second necro chain. Then i started playing as a caster with FW. Made leveling easier, but I dropped it later with an LR. Cha IS a dump stat. However because of the current situation with reincarnate and the fact I am currently Human, I went 16 for the added UMD. If it was not for UMD i would have 18 Wisdom and not even sure where I would put the last for 4 points. I did find when I first rolled it I had 4 points left with no real place to put them. Hence I went 12 Strength.

Note also that I have not tweaked my gear yet and have just taken the numbers from how my toon is standing now. Hence a lot of odd numbers.

Skills:
Balance: 19
Concentration: 43 (no item or gh)
UMD: 31 (includes shroud cha skills 6 but does not include UMD item or GH. So a possible 40 with those included.)
Diplomacy: 53 (+10 item)
Intimidate when + 2 tomes kick in: 36 (no item or gh)

Notes: Balance and Concentration are the only ones I would say I NEED. UMD is because of Reincarnate. Diplomacy, I have had on my toon since forever. And I NEVER use it to clear agro. But it is nice to have with some npc optionals etc. Took Intim for the same reason. On my FvS I would have had jump instead but druid gets jump spell so I decided to carry Intim for same reason as Diplo.

Feats:
Mental Toughness
Improved Mental Toughness
Epic Mental Toughness
Empower Spell
Empower Healing
Maximize Spell
Enlarge Spell
Quicken Spell
Spell Focus Evocation
Toughness

Notes: All the usual Caster goodies. In comparison to what I had as a FvS. Empower Healing is in as I wanted my HoT’s to be as powerful as possible. Heighten is dropped as, as someone else mentioned, the only spell I can see it making a big difference to is FoD. But my FoD is hitting for around 600 points of damage on a non crit. So my FoD is more like a DPS spell with a chance of killing a mob instantly rather than it being a pure death spell. Evo focus is so i can twist in 3 dc from the magister. Mental toughness is to soften the blow to my spell pool. I was a FvS for years. I can’t not have 3000ish sp lol. They do only add upto giving about +500. But I can do a lot with 500 extra sp ;-). My FvS did not have them. I was HElf so had -1 feat their. Had Bulwark of Defense and I am not sure which other feat I had instead. Finally a word on Enlarge. Lots of people question why I have it. Many say “its not needed”. Correct it is not needed. But in the same way that you do not NEED to eat chocolate or drink beer. Well Enlarge is one addiction I am not willing to give up. The world is a much better place with Enlarge.

Hp:
base 210
Con Bonus 225
feat/enhancement 87
Items 95
Total: 617

Saves:
Fort: 27
Reflex: 20
Will 38

AC: 54
Dodge: 0%
PRR: 16
Defence Chance: 38%


Fortification: 225%
Spell Resistance: 30

Notes: All of these are with the current gear I have on and with NO buffs. It is good gear. But as I said earlier, its not been tweaked yet so these numbers I would expect to improve once I have gotten around to doing that.

Enhancements:
Capstone Hierophant
Druid Autumnal Susurrus
Druid Crown of Summer
PrE: Druid season’s Herald I
PrE: Druid Season’s Herald II
Druid Winters Heart (Naff imo but not dropped it YET)
Human Adaptability Wisdom I
Racial Toughness I
Druid Waxing Hoarfrost I
Druid Waxing Hoarfrost II
Druid Waxing Hoarfrost III
Druid Waxing Life I
Druid Waxing Life II
Druid Waxing Life III
Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost I
Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost II
Druid Zenith of Hoarfrost III
Druid Zenith of Life I
Druid Zenith of Life II
Druid Zenith of Life III
Druid Energy of the locus I
Druid Energy of the locus II
Druid Energy of the locus III
Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost I
Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost II
Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost III
Druid Eminence of Hoarfrost IV
Druid Eminence of the Storm I
Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Druid Eminence of the Sun II
Druid Eminence of the Sun III
Druid Eminence of Life I
Druid Eminence of Life II
Druid Eminence of Life III
Druid Eminence of Life IV
Druid Wisdom I
Druid Wisdom II
Druid Toughness I
Druid Toughness II

Notes: I have basically just maxed my cold/acid spells along with pos/neg. Neg being a bi-product but the reason why my FoD is now working as a good DPS spell! Taken some of the fire/light spell power and the wisdom and some toughness. I did originally take the Pre. Then i thought it was naff so dropped it. But I have taken it again because, granted it is a pain when 5mins some of your spells are good and the next 5 your other spells are good. But I looked at it another way. For 5 mins half of your spells have a 30 spell power boost. And then the next 5 the other half of your spells get the boost. There is no negative for being in winter. It is just a small boost. So I am now looking at it in that way and giving it another chance. Does cost fair AP to get it though and for the cost it should be better. But with the new enhancement system right around the corner, I cant be arsed tweaking and perfecting these. Its working nice as is so it can stay that way.

Spell Power:
Acid: 80 (No item on)
Cold: 80 (No item. 228 with weapon and winter on)
Fire: 209 (With item and summer)
Force: 117 (holy symbol of Lloth)
Light: 187 (^^)
Negative: 227 (^^ and winter)
Positive: 227 (only a 72 item and summer)

Notes: I would say these are sitting at the decent mark. I will push them a bit higher when iItweak gear and they are not counting meta magics, buffs or clickies. These are raw stats.

Epic Destiny:

Exalted Angel
Currently using this. I have taken +6 wisdom, blood of radiance for another stacking +30 to pos spell power while I am healing, and the same for light spells. Then I have all the tier 1 abilities with Raidiant Power only at 2/3 and Endless Faith 2/3. I have none of the top tier as they suck imo. Reborn in Light looks good on paper. But in reality I very rarely die and hardly ever reach 100 stack without being close to needing a shrine. So its almost useless. All the time I had it I never once had that situation where I made use of it. Leap of faith is a big ++ and the deciding factor for being exalted right now. Astral vibrance sucks because of the sp drain. Ascendance is bugged as far as I am concerned because even when i activate it Astral Vibrance STILL drains my sp....

So basically from this I get +6 wisdom which means +3 to spell DC a bit of sp and another 3 will save. Leap of Faith. 30 healing spell power with another possible 30. +7% sp. +250. +2 charisma from angelic presence. SLA Avenging Light.

Magister
I have played as the magister and like the exalted, it did give me some nice things but nothing as useful as what I found from the exalted. The loss of Wisdom was not an issue since I gain the +3 evo without need for twist. Thats the same as +6 Wisdom anyway, just without the 3 will save and marginal sp gain. And it just free's the twist up to get a further +2 from draconic instead. It was going to be my destiny but then I found that the -10% spell cost reduction is from the base spell cost and not the total spell cost after meta magics. So you don’t save a great deal from 3000sp. So i went back to exalted. It did work well but in the end I just felt I got a bit more from exalted than Magister.

Shiradi
Someone earlier said that it was a mistake not to be Shiradi because of the caster levels I lose. But like I said in my reply to that. All of the spells I am using are either max level capped or max damage capped. With the exception of Creeping Doom. So I think druids have been screwed in that respect and it is a false bonus that actually gives us nothing. Maybe I am wrong?

Shiradi would give me, +100 sp. +6 Wisdom. +25 universal spell power with a possible +10 if i stand still (which may I point out for me is erm..... Never. Unless I am piking). And a bunch of % chances of doing extra DPS. Whilst the extra ticks of dps is nice on aoe's, I'm down about 500sp compared to when I'm in exalted and i would not pay 500sp for that dps. Healing spring is very nice though...

Twist of Fates:
Twist 1 (tier 4): Energy Burst. This is what I carry mostly and I would recommend to everyone. 1500 points of damage to every mob around you. 4000-8000 on crits. Every 30 seconds, and did i mention its FREE. Save is based on Cha and thanks to reincarnate I do have a nice amount so every cloud and all that.

In some raids, mainly shrouds, I will swap this for Magister Energy Negation. It gives a stacking 60 to all elemental resistance if your stood inside it. You should see how much damage your group doesnt take when fighting harry in pt 4 of shroud. Just remind them about blades. When melee don’t take no damage from harry they start thinking they are GOD. You need to remind them its your greatness protecting them and not there own.

Twist 2 (tier 2): Evocation Specialist. +3 dc to earthquake.

Twist 3 (tier 1): Healing Spring. Very nice free healing!

[Mark2422]

I can see the day when I no longer have FVS or cleric for healers coming. I am so much more ineffective and inefficient at it. Are they good past lives for druid? Absolutely. But only as past lives do I see them viable long term. I predicted at U14 that the end of clerics was coming(I was a wee bit upset about the healing nerf). I had not levelled up my druid yet. I was accused of being a doomsayer. Now, I am completely calm and totally convinced I was correct. This is a much easier class to play and still be good at party politics. (all healers know what I mean)

I have been very careful with this thread. I have compared my druid to healer FvS and not healers in general. The reason being that would include the cleric. I hate playing a cleric. Back in the day before the prestige class RS, I had 4 clerics. I played them exactly how I still play/played my FvS. But RS changed the cleric for me as the bursts and aura force me to get closer to the melee action than I want to. And the risk to my life, vs the power of them is just not good enough for me. And so I havnt played a cleric in 2 years. But they are different healers now to a fvs and to when i played them so I don't like to comment on them as a healer as I don't think it is fair for me to do so. They just don't suit my style.

I'm not sure about the end of FvS and Clerics. But at the moment I do feel a healer druid has more to offer a party than either one of them does. And any melee would much rather have an earthquake aoe druid as their healer than a bb kiting FvS/Cleric.

[Mark2422]

I am testing Shiradi as we speak. And I am down 500sp! tut tut. However i just used healing spring for the first time. And that will be going into my tier 1 twist for sure.

[Sylvado]

Is it the FvS past life that allows you to take exalted or is there something I don't understand about destinies?

[lanthan]

Any character can use any destiny once they unlock it by leveling neighboring destinies. Class only restricts which destiny you start with.

If you pick a destiny and then TR you keep all destiny XP but you can not choose a different starting point when you get back to 20. You have to unlock them the hard way.

[AtomicMew]

I This far outweighs anything my cleric can come up with to defend herself. This keeps the mobs where they are to take the damage which leads to MUCH less fussing from the melee. Kiting drives them crazy. Yet it is really the only thing a cleric has that is effective to damage mobs. And a cleric kiting a mob is not paying attention to healing as much as staying alive. It just is what it is.

Implosion? Destruction/slay living? Heck, even symbol of persuasion if you really feel the need to CC. Divines can do a lot more than BB kiting.

There are currently two FvS in the achievement section that have solo'ed literally all of the new epic elite quests. If druid can indeed be comparable, let's see some achievements.

[~Susie1262]

Implosion kills 5 mobs MAX. On a good one. And gets aggro of anything that does not die. Destruction kills sometimes. Usually requires neg levelling first. Same for Slay Living. Plus you have to be within touching distance to use Slay Living. What you don't kill is then aggroed on you. For you to do what? BB and kite. It almost always comes down to BB and kite for a cleric to manage mobs. See my earlier comments about how melee feel about it.

Earthquake + AoE of some kind STOP mobs. It is rare that mobs save. If they do, I have Word of Balance or Finger of Death waiting on them. Or both.

I have answered the whole Implosion/Destruction/Slay Living thing before. I have actually used these spells. Have you?

As far as achievement section goes, I did include the statement, "I play healers." Several times. Do I need to say it again? I PLAY HEALERS. I have never once said that Druids are better than FVS for soloing. The whole thread is about Druid HEALERS.

[Mark2422]

There are currently two FvS in the achievement section that have solo'ed literally all of the new epic elite quests. If druid can indeed be comparable, let's see some achievements.

Ok, lets ignore the fact that one of them is a monk splash who used GMoF to melee a lot of the mobs. Lets also ignore the fact that druids have been out for about 8 weeks, and the fact that in this thread we have been talking about druid casters and how well they work in a party as a healer with cc and DPS ability. Lets finally ignore the fact that WHEN I do this, it will be more a testament to my own personal skill and experience rather than the class.

I like a challenge and since I am off work for 6 days starting on Saturday.......

[Sylvado]

Any character can use any destiny once they unlock it by leveling neighboring destinies. Class only restricts which destiny you start with.

If you pick a destiny and then TR you keep all destiny XP but you can not choose a different starting point when you get back to 20. You have to unlock them the hard way.

That part I understand but Exalted is 3 or 4 away for a Druid.

[JasonJi72]

Finally, a Druids don't suck thread! +1

Is that you doing all that CC?. Yes, I have these spells called howl and earthquake, and they work surprisingly well against the right mobs. Earthquake is da bomb btw. Haven't tried it with sleet storm yet, but I've been itching to.

My Druid is not quite as heal specced as yours, but I don't think twice about being the only healer in a non-raid or the second healer in a raid. The only thing is that I feel that the group is losing a lot of dps if my druid has to fill a healer role, because I do conserve my sp and hold back more when I play my druid as a healer.

Wings wings wings... you guys do know that there is a wolf spell that acts as an abundant step while providing dps and CC at the same time right? It can be spammed much quicker too.

Currently, my druid character is my third priority for gearing up, but it is competing fiercely for the #2 slot. It will also be on hold for a couple weeks while I level up a legend life too; except for a shroud every 3 days of course.

I am also considering taking the animal prestige line since I spend a lot of time in wolf form. The melee dps is actually pretty decent with some effort put into it. Also, the wolf companion contributes nicely without the need for augment summoning; just buff it.

Not having mass protection from elements seems strange to me. If any class should have that spell, it should be the druid.

My druid is a human, and I won't be able to get my umd up any time soon, so people are stuck with my 30 minute reincarnate casting time. Considering how most characters can raise dead these days, I don't see it being too much of an issue, and at least I CAN raise, albeit not during combat.

You really can't play a druid as anything but a druid. If you try, you will be disapointed, and never discover the true strengths of the class.

May the forest be with you!

[AtomicMew]

Ok, lets ignore the fact that one of them is a monk splash who used GMoF to melee a lot of the mobs. Lets also ignore the fact that druids have been out for about 8 weeks, and the fact that in this thread we have been talking about druid casters and how well they work in a party as a healer with cc and DPS ability. Lets finally ignore the fact that WHEN I do this, it will be more a testament to my own personal skill and experience rather than the class.

I like a challenge and since I am off work for 6 days starting on Saturday.......

I'm not sure how this is quite relevant.

-Feel free to splash monk or use GMOF on your druid. In fact, that's a really good combo.


-Performance in 6 man party's is incredibly subjective and highly dependent on your other teammates. I've gone in EE quests and piked while my guildmates cleaned house. This doesn't mean that a toon build for piking is a good build.


-Druids have been out for 8 weeks - YES! That's a massive amount of time for druid fans to have attempted various achievements. Were already around the bend with update 15.

All I'm saying is, it's easy to talk. How about some proof that druids really are on the same level as other casters.

[Diyon]

Finally, a Druids don't suck thread! +1

Is that you doing all that CC?. Yes, I have these spells called howl and earthquake, and they work surprisingly well against the right mobs. Earthquake is da bomb btw. Haven't tried it with sleet storm yet, but I've been itching to.

My Druid is not quite as heal specced as yours, but I don't think twice about being the only healer in a non-raid or the second healer in a raid. The only thing is that I feel that the group is losing a lot of dps if my druid has to fill a healer role, because I do conserve my sp and hold back more when I play my druid as a healer.

Wings wings wings... you guys do know that there is a wolf spell that acts as an abundant step while providing dps and CC at the same time right? It can be spammed much quicker too.

Currently, my druid character is my third priority for gearing up, but it is competing fiercely for the #2 slot. It will also be on hold for a couple weeks while I level up a legend life too; except for a shroud every 3 days of course.

I am also considering taking the animal prestige line since I spend a lot of time in wolf form. The melee dps is actually pretty decent with some effort put into it. Also, the wolf companion contributes nicely without the need for augment summoning; just buff it.

Not having mass protection from elements seems strange to me. If any class should have that spell, it should be the druid.

My druid is a human, and I won't be able to get my umd up any time soon, so people are stuck with my 30 minute reincarnate casting time. Considering how most characters can raise dead these days, I don't see it being too much of an issue, and at least I CAN raise, albeit not during combat.

You really can't play a druid as anything but a druid. If you try, you will be disapointed, and never discover the true strengths of the class.

May the forest be with you!

I would like to clarify that snow slide is not spammable faster than wings. Wings has a 6 (3?) second cooldown, regenerates one every 15 seconds. Snowslide has a 15 second cooldown. However snowslide costs 25 SP. On the other hand, it goes a good bit further than wings and has a 10 second +50% action boost bonus to speed.

Something to note if you go wolf form while casting: Magic fang= 15 spell power. Or more if you get your CL to 25 or 30. (Increases enhancement bonus on the weapon, which if has an implement bonus, that bonus is directly tied to the enhancement bonus)

[Mark2422]

That part I understand but Exalted is 3 or 4 away for a Druid.

I should of mentioned that I have all the destinies at level 5.

[Mark2422]

I'm not sure how this is quite relevant.

-Feel free to splash monk or use GMOF on your druid. In fact, that's a really good combo.

Its all relevant because we have been talking about druid CASTERS and not druid melee/casters and how they perform as a group healer compared to a FvS. No where have I talked about my solo ability compared to a FvS. And your right, talk is cheap so I won't bother until I have done as your requested...

[AtomicMew]

Its all relevant because we have been talking about druid CASTERS and not druid melee/casters and how they perform as a group healer compared to a FvS. No where have I talked about my solo ability compared to a FvS. And your right, talk is cheap so I won't bother until I have done as your requested...

This is just my opinion:

It is dead easy and requires minimal gear and investment to be a healer on any number of classes. If you're just planning to make a druid as a party healer, then sure go for it. But just realize you aren't really offering anything special or superior to other classes, since again, being a healer is very very easy.

The thing that sets a caster and few other builds apart is their ability to be a one man powerhouse of destruction. So from the evidence presented thus far in the achievement section, FvS are capable of soloing epic elite and druids, at least, shall we say, not yet.

But the thing is, those same FvS builds are easily capable of healing parties in epic elite just as well, if not better. Personally, I have already blind-healed half the new quests on epic elite and just being honest, was never in any danger of wiping - because healing a party doesn't require significant skill or investment.

Essentially, what I want to say is this: so if FvS can be a healer just as well AND has potential to solo epic elite, whereas druid can only be a healer and ostensibly has no potential to solo epic elite, what does druid offer? This is yet another reason why I think you need to show capabilities without the huge bias of a party. To be considered at the same level as casters, a druid needs to actually be able to rise to the same challenges that other casters already have - not just perform marginally better in an already easy party role.

[wax_on_wax_off]

This is just my opinion:

It is dead easy and requires minimal gear and investment to be a healer on any number of classes. If you're just planning to make a druid as a party healer, then sure go for it. But just realize you aren't really offering anything special or superior to other classes, since again, being a healer is very very easy.

The thing that sets a caster and few other builds apart is their ability to be a one man powerhouse of destruction. So from the evidence presented thus far in the achievement section, FvS are capable of soloing epic elite and druids, at least, shall we say, not yet.

But the thing is, those same FvS builds are easily capable of healing parties in epic elite just as well, if not better. Personally, I have already blind-healed half the new quests on epic elite and just being honest, was never in any danger of wiping - because healing a party doesn't require significant skill or investment.

Essentially, what I want to say is this: so if FvS can be a healer just as well AND has potential to solo epic elite, whereas druid can only be a healer and ostensibly has no potential to solo epic elite, what does druid offer? This is yet another reason why I think you need to show capabilities without the huge bias of a party. To be considered at the same level as casters, a druid needs to actually be able to rise to the same challenges that other casters already have - not just perform marginally better in an already easy party role.

Hmm, last time I checked at least one of the characters that soloed all EE quests CAN'T heal a party as they don't carry heal spells beyond heal iirc.

FvS are great at specialised roles. There's the EE soloer without heal spells, the healings easy build with a thousand HP, the evokers and the melee builds ... What I don't see is hybrid builds that effectively combine all aspects of the class into a cohesive whole that isn't gimping anything along the way.

Druids, well, I certainly don't know as I haven't played one yet but this thread has revitalised my interest in the class and I may TR an idle character as for a worst case it will be good to play the class and I'm a sucker for a challenge and playing builds for what they are (in this case a Druid) rather than what someone would like them to be (a FvS).

[Mark2422]

being a healer is very very easy.

healing a party doesn't require significant skill or investment.

Not even going to get into this debate with you. These sort of comments can only come from a part time healer at best who usually runs with a group in quests that dont even need a healer.

Essentially, what I want to say is this: so if FvS can be a healer just as well AND has potential to solo epic elite, whereas druid can only be a healer and ostensibly has no potential to solo epic elite, what does druid offer? This is yet another reason why I think you need to show capabilities without the huge bias of a party. To be considered at the same level as casters, a druid needs to actually be able to rise to the same challenges that other casters already have - not just perform marginally better in an already easy party role.

You dont see achievements because as i said, druid has only just been released and people are still trying out what works and working on there skills with them.

As for they dont bring nothing? As I have siad multiple times. DRUIDS BRING GREAT CC to which FvS do not. This not only saves on healing and increases EVERYONES survivability, it also makes the melees alot better as the mobs stay still so they can beat the **** out of them. FVS CANNOT DO THIS to anywhere near the same degree as a druid.

I am not bias at all. I love the FvS. I am a FvS and have been almost exclusivly for many years. I have nothing to gain by sticking up for the druids.

[Myrrae]

For what it's worth I saw quite a few posts when U14 came out that made it sound like druids weren't really exceptional at anything. While being solely a healer isn't one of my big goals, healing + cc sounds interesting to me and I'm glad this thread got posted.

This has definitely upped Druid on my list of classes to play and I appreciate it.

[Havok.cry]

When you did magister, did you try out it's antimagic line? I liked it on my sorc an am wondering if it is a good addition it things like earthquake, or if it would just be redundant.

Also how does earthquake interact with drow priestesses?