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  1. #1
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Default Need Help making an unconventional FvS

    So I TRed my Barb/Fighter into an FvS (the Barb/fighter was kinda meh honestly it's why I bought FvS...thought it was goling to be a Battlemage type build) forever ago and its been sitting gathering dust FOREVER and I just don't know what to do with it currently its sitting at Lvl 8 Single-class FvS and has enough xp in the bank to hit lvl 16 (xp stone) so i figured what better time to fix things up.

    The idea being I can get by with a build that would have a bunch of rough levels since im jumping through 8 of them...of course this character has a free LR so feats skills stats are all changeable but being WF and Lvl cannot be changed.

    The issue is I have NO idea what I'm going to do with it, honestly I hate the way the FvS plays for some odd reason and the U14 update just beat WF FvS into a pulp. Now my hope is to hit Lvl 20 by the time the new enhancement system comes out so I can make myself a Occult Slayer Whirlwind Barbarian Multi-class type thing

    I can't power level this guy because he's on my friends and family server orien which means I can't even pug...only reason I took the stone was because 16 is much closer to any of our static group characters than 8. Point being leveling will be slow so I want it to be something I will have fun playing (I have no issue making a 12X/FvS8) but on the other hand it means I can get away with a less than "Uber" build since were just playing to have fun so alot more leeway than usual

    Anyways that was a nice set of text there...I'm just hoping you guys can come up with some crazy but whilst I don't have a build in my mind here's three of my favorite builds to give you an idea of my style.


    1. Dwarven Wizard12(PM2)/Fighter6(SD1)/Rogue2

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=354053

    The idea with this build is I've always wanted to be the type of character that wades into a crowd of enemies and laughs one way or another at their attempts to take him down but I've always found your "standard" tank to be fairly boring...originally I was actually going to take 6 Paladin for the extra saves, spells,etc. and of course the blasphemy of a Undead Paladin but I really needed the bonus feats, also still hoping for dwarven defender. The build is actually going to take the Unyielding Sentinel ED. Anyways the main thing I love about this build is that its Ice based so the majority of those spells have NO save/sr ie. Ice Storm so really helps me keep aggro.




    2. Human Rogue13(Acrobat2)/Monk6(NS1)/Druid1

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=387501

    Heh this build literally came into being simply because of shillegh, I've always wanted to do an Acrobat build before and that spell made me NEED to do it...the best part of this build is it moves like a ROCKET, I actually have to be careful to stay behind the Barb tank but luckily the build is highly survivable and can take quite a few hits...I cannot wait for the +30% speed from GMoF to move even faster (twisted) and the bonus to cleave etc. from Legendary Dreadnought....I just like the adrenaline feel of it. Oh and the changes to cleave are AWESOME!!!!




    3. Half-Elf Sorc 20 "The Sith"

    http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=369227

    I love my multiclass builds but I'm a mage at heart and I love this build its more of a theme build though specced for Lightning and "Force" (wish we had bigby's lines) and the satisfaction of a chain lightning is just so awesome I feel like a real sith lord (also the monkish jump thing is fun)...I took ALOT to convince me to not take 2 Paladin but after much discussion I went single-class and took Pally Dilly instead and I'm loving it just pure unfettered fun...no idea what I'm doing for ED but if it's actually WAI that Shiradi Champion works with Offensive spells I may go with that, otherwise I hate to say it but Magister & Draconic Incarnation are kinda meh.



    So uh yeah...I hope that helps...I know its hard to help with little of an idea but yeah I have no idea so I figured it cant hurt to ask
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-20-2012 at 09:10 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  2. #2
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Just Spit-Balling here, but I've had my mind on a strange "fun" FvS multi for quite some time.

    13 FvS AoV, 6 Pally DoS, 1 Fighter
    1 Fighter qualifies you for DoS AND an extra feat
    13 FvS for Buffs, Self-Heals, and Blade Barrier (all weak, but fine for self-healing/static self-sufficient group)
    6 Pally synergizes with...
    AoV De-Buff aura/condemnation + Divine Sacrifice
    CHA to Saves
    CHA to Smites

    The idea behind the paltry DoS I is to enable MadStone Boots on a blue-bar. Pop in and out of stance to control your rage for self-heals and casting.

    Personally, I was going Dwarf with 2 Templar's Justice's...But a new Item proc greatsword with brilliance (Sun's Fury is common enough at ML 16-18) and LoB should work too.

    The stone would help here...as the main thing holding me back on rolling something like this is the PITA leveling process.

    I've put a TON of thought into this concept and a lot of other benifits with it, but no need to overwhelm ya if it dosn't appeal

    Just a thought
    ShadowFlash
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 08-20-2012 at 02:03 AM.

  3. #3
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    I've put a TON of thought into this concept and a lot of other benifits with it, but no need to overwhelm ya if it dosn't appeal
    No no, go ahead, gimme the juicy details I'm open to pretty much anything at this point and yours definately has perked my interest

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    The idea behind the paltry DoS I is to enable MadStone Boots on a blue-bar.
    Can't you do the same thing with Defensive fighting...not saying DoS 1 isn't great just commenting (Too bad HoD & KoTC are so underwhelming)
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-20-2012 at 09:05 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  4. #4
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    The standard reason for going WF FvS is to take the Lord of Blades line in order to grab great sword proficiency. While it was once fun, it is presently underwhelming.

    Presuming that the character is seeing play only in a static group of friends and family and presuming that it will not stick around on epic levels for long ShadowFlash's build concept seems to have merit.

    But, I get the impression that you are not really sold on FvS as a character class -- that you are more of a melee sort of person. With that thought I'd suggest you go FvS 8/Ranger 12.

    For stats dump everything except STR and CON, taking only enough DEX to qualify for Dodge so that you can get the Tempest PrE.

    Ranger will take care of the TWF feat line for you automatically. Your FvS religion choice becomes moot since Ranger opens up all melee weapons -- instead choose based on what the later enhancements provide. Use Divine Power to fight at full BAB.

    This, IMO, seems closer to the type of character you like to play and it finds the maximum synergy with the existing FvS class by using the divine spells for personal buffs to improve your melee prowess.

  5. #5
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    The standard reason for going WF FvS is to take the Lord of Blades line in order to grab great sword proficiency. While it was once fun, it is presently underwhelming.

    Presuming that the character is seeing play only in a static group of friends and family and presuming that it will not stick around on epic levels for long ShadowFlash's build concept seems to have merit.

    But, I get the impression that you are not really sold on FvS as a character class -- that you are more of a melee sort of person. With that thought I'd suggest you go FvS 8/Ranger 12.

    For stats dump everything except STR and CON, taking only enough DEX to qualify for Dodge so that you can get the Tempest PrE.

    Ranger will take care of the TWF feat line for you automatically. Your FvS religion choice becomes moot since Ranger opens up all melee weapons -- instead choose based on what the later enhancements provide. Use Divine Power to fight at full BAB.

    This, IMO, seems closer to the type of character you like to play and it finds the maximum synergy with the existing FvS class by using the divine spells for personal buffs to improve your melee prowess.
    Honestly I've never been sold on the TWF fighting style (and by similarity the unarmed style) it why despite loving the builds in general I dropped my Monk and Assassin, I've always felt like the attack range is FAR to short...ranged (both repeater and spellcasting) and THF are my preferred style.

    Going back to SFs post I really do think Paladin 6 is the best splash none of the other classes really have a Tier 1 PrE thats adds much to FvS except fighter if the extra feats are needed and than I would just take SD.

    Anyways yeah I'm really not feeling the FvS playstyle the coolness of a Battlemage I was hoping for just isn't there, the drop in DPS from the fighter Barb is painful and the spells aren't really worth it and the U14 nerf really isn't helping just looking to hit 20 with my buddies and than we'll TR since our other two sets (My Sorc and My Wiz/Fighter) of characters are planning on tackling the Epic Stuff

    Really hoping Occult Slayer ends up giving me what I'm looking for when It's time to TR, like I LOVED my Barb but it had a severe lack of things to do and since my play style was charge, jump over the defenders and smash the mage/clerics face in stuff like Silence on-hit, spell evasion (medium armor pre-req) dispel, Truesight, bonus versus mind-affected spells, Slippery Mind, On-hit Drain enemy SP -> gives you HP,ASF Debuff,SR,etc.
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-20-2012 at 10:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  6. #6
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Honestly I've never been sold on the TWF fighting style (and by similarity the unarmed style) it why despite loving the builds in general I dropped my Monk and Assassin, I've always felt like the attack range is FAR to short...ranged (both repeater and spellcasting) and THF are my preferred style.
    Certainly understandable if TWF isn't your thing.

    I find that the increased number of hits compensates for the lower damage and, with monks especially, the faster attack rate (and no loss of STR of off hand attacks) means total damage is pretty comparable.

    I do understand that a lot of people prefer to not be close enough for the mobs to hit back. OTOH, I tend to feel that is the role of arcane archers, artificers and spell casters.

  7. #7
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    Certainly understandable if TWF isn't your thing.

    I find that the increased number of hits compensates for the lower damage and, with monks especially, the faster attack rate (and no loss of STR of off hand attacks) means total damage is pretty comparable.

    I do understand that a lot of people prefer to not be close enough for the mobs to hit back. OTOH, I tend to feel that is the role of arcane archers, artificers and spell casters.
    Well the thing is on all my melee characters I'm pretty much always on the move (which i why i love my acrobat) either circle strafing or like charging through (keeping outside of the enemies attack range, It's one of the main reasons I love DDO) so the range of TWF makes this REALLY hard even my S&B Wiz/Fighter seems to have longer range than TWF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  8. #8
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    OK I'm finally home and I LOVE the build but I'm actually thinking of leaving FvS at 8 simply because if I'm going to force this guy up to 20 just to TR him I may as well go for a build that will get me a useful Passive Past life such as Paladin or Fighter.
    I've given the thread a bit of time to develop and watched your responses to the builds that have been suggested.

    I'm going to go back to my previous suggestion that you keep your 8 levels of FvS and go with remaining the levels in Ranger.

    However, I'm going to alter my recommendation a bit to take into account some of the things you've mentioned throughout the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Well the thing is on all my melee characters I'm pretty much always on the move (which i why i love my acrobat) either circle strafing or like charging through (keeping outside of the enemies attack range, It's one of the main reasons I love DDO) so the range of TWF makes this REALLY hard even my S&B Wiz/Fighter seems to have longer range than TWF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Therigar View Post
    I do understand that a lot of people prefer to not be close enough for the mobs to hit back. OTOH, I tend to feel that is the role of arcane archers, artificers and spell casters.
    Let's be serious about it for a moment. You should only advance to L18 regardless of what you splash in because holding the last two levels keeps you in the lower level content while still earning XP. That means you won't ever really have a chance to benefit from a Ranger PrE -- but, you wouldn't really be getting much benefit from any PrE regardless of what class you splash at this point.

    What Ranger provides that other class choices do not (Fighter, Paladin, Monk, Barbarian) is an abundance of free feats that ignore the DEX requirements. Even though some of those are the TWF line, that does not mean you must employ the TWF style.

    Instead, take advantage of the bow feats that are given to the class automatically. Fire off a few seconds of manyshot and then grab a two-handed weapon and start swinging away.

    As before, the build goes all STR and CON. But, unlike my earlier suggestion, you don't need to invest in DEX as you are not really pursuing the Tempest PrE. Instead, put the final points where they seem to give the most benefit, maybe even INT for an extra skill point here or there.

    Then take THF feats and martial combat feats (Stunning Blow, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave) -- that is all 7 although some will be optional to you depending on your preferences -- and take the WF melee combat enhancements (Power Attack, Great Weapon Aptitude).

    Don't even bother with PrE choices since your stated goal is to TR immediately. Just use the enhancements to boost combat prowess.

  9. #9
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Ok, so uh here's some crazy build plans I threw together

    Warforged FvS13/Paladin6/Fighter1

    Str 18
    Dex 8
    Con 16
    Int 14
    Wis 6
    Cha 12


    Level Order: FvS 1-8, Fighter 9, Paladin 10 - 15, FvS 16 - 20

    1 Extend
    3 Dodge
    6 Mobility
    9 Spring Attack
    9* Combat Expertise
    12 Whirlwind
    15 IC:Slashing
    18 Maximize

    Skills: Concentration, Jump, Balance, UMD



    Another Possibility would be FvS12/X6/Paladin2 but can't think of anything that would synergize there...really only 6 fighter (which may not be a bad idea)

    Another thing to consider would be if I make a FvS8/X? build (ie. FvS8/x10/x2) whats a good passive Past life to aim for when the next life will likely be a Barbarian/Fighter Melee Build

    - Paladin = Heal Amp
    - Barb = HP
    - Fighter = Attack rolls and tactics dc
    Last edited by Failedlegend; 08-20-2012 at 03:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  10. #10
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    I'll have a little somthin' thrown together by the end of the night

    PL: Barb, right? Tomes available?

    ShadowFlash
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 08-20-2012 at 06:23 PM.

  11. #11
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    I'll have a little somthin' thrown together by the end of the night Lookin forward to it

    PL: Barb, right? Yes, +10 HP FTW

    Tomes available? unfortunately I TRed this guy shortly before the keeping tomes through TR existed...my wiz18/rogue2 as well which sucks cause he had a few +3s but no biggie

    ShadowFlash
    comments in orange
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

  12. #12
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    OK...here goes...remember, you said unconventional

    Warforged 34-point (PL:Barbarian)
    Favored Soul 12 AoV I / Paladin 6 DoS I / Fighter 2
    Stats
    STR 17 +2 tome +5 levels = 24
    DEX 8 +2 tome = 10
    CON 17 +2 tome +1 Enh. = 20
    INT 9 +2 tome = 11
    WIS 8 +2 tome = 10
    CHA 14 +2 tome = 16

    Odd ball 1 point in INT just to gain skill points earlier.
    +3 CON tome + lvl 24 stat point = 21 toughness = Epic toughness
    Standard gear, ship buffs, pots, blah, blah, blah need to be added.
    Shown with +2's...but dosen't really matter, although at least pop a +1 on INT for the skill points before the LR. +2 Wisdom Tome is needed for level 6 spell (Blade Barrier) with standard +6 gear.

    Skills
    UMD
    sprinkle spare points where desired.

    Feats & Leveling Order

    Level 1 (Favored Soul) Adamantine Body / Favored by the Lord of Blades
    Level 2 (Favored Soul)
    Level 3 (Favored Soul) Extend Spell
    Level 4 (Favored Soul)
    Level 5 (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Fire
    Level 6 (Favored Soul) Power Attack
    Level 7 (Favored Soul)
    Level 8 (Favored Soul)
    Level 9 (Favored Soul) Cleave
    Level 10 (Favored Soul Bonus) Energy Resistance: Electricity
    Level 11 (Favored Soul)
    Level 12 (Favored Soul) Toughness
    Level 13 (Paladin)
    Level 14 (Paladin)
    Level 15 (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    (Selected) Maximize Spell
    Level 16 (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    Level 17 (Paladin)
    Level 18 (Paladin) Quicken Spell
    Level 19 (Paladin)
    Level 20 (Paladin)
    Level 21 Overwhelming Critical
    Level 24 Epic Toughness

    Enhancements
    Paladin Armor Class Boost I
    Favored Soul Damage Boost IV
    Favored Soul Extra Action Boost I
    Fighter Haste Boost I
    Follower of the Lord of Blades
    Favored Soul Angel of Vengeance I
    Paladin Courage of Good I
    Paladin Bulwark of Good I
    Paladin Focus of Good I
    Paladin Resistance of Good I
    Paladin Divine Righteousness I
    Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
    Paladin Exalted Smite I
    Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
    Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
    Paladin Defender of Siberys I
    Favored Soul Smiting III
    Favored Soul Prayer of Smiting II
    Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Smiting II
    Favored Soul Life Magic III
    Favored Soul Prayer of Life I
    Favored Soul Prayer of Incredible Life I
    Favored Soul Energy of the Scion II
    Racial Toughness III
    Favored Soul Toughness III
    Favored Soul Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Warforged Constitution I
    Warforged Healer's Friend I
    Warforged Power Attack II

    You'll notice I did not take AoV II. I don't think 9 AP is worth it. There's way to many other useful enhancements IMHO. This also represents a Full Level 25 maxed Unyielding Sentinel Loadout. There's plenty of good options to tweak while leveling from 16 up. For example, Smiting lines are not a high priority until your Caster Level catches up with epic levels. Tweak how you see fit.

    Spell List (Favored Soul) Tough for me, I'm use to Battle-Clerics and more slots than choices

    Level 1
    Divine Favor
    Shield of Faith
    Nimbus of Light (don't laugh, it's actually efficient for lazy pew pewing)
    Bless or Nightshield

    Level 2
    Resist Energy
    Cure Moderate Wounds
    Lesser Restoration
    Bear's Endurance (Summons, Hirelings, and Gimps)

    Level 3
    Cure Serious Wounds
    Prayer
    Searing Light
    Aid, Mass

    Level 4
    Divine Power
    Cure Critical Wounds
    Tough Choice of ONE of the Following...
    Recitation
    Freedom of Movement
    Death Ward
    Restoration
    Panecea

    Level 5
    Divine Punishment
    Choice of ONE of the Following...
    Raise Dead (scrollable)
    Protection from Elements (scrollable)
    Flame Strike (hate it, but I still keep trying to like it)
    Cure Light mass (meh...you're not a healer, and this won't change that)

    Level 6
    Blade Barrier
    I choose NOT to take Heal. Spell Power "Heal" nerfing and "Curative" boosting should make up the difference,
    and the extra Feat from one more fighter is worth the trade. Heal of course, is scrollable, while BB is not.

    Points I can Expand on if needed

    If you don't TR right away...and I would suggest farming up a destiny or two before you do to reduce fate point grind (something static "fun" groups like ours really should start considering)...Unyielding Sentinel really pulls this build together. The caster levels extend your short-term buff durations, and more importantly, allows a Caster Level 18 Divine Punishment (lvl 20 is max) and max's Blade Barrier. Spell Points will range between 1600-2000 depending on gear. My battle-Cleric made do with less. For reference +2 WIS = 15sp, and +2 CHA = 21sp. 60% sp bonus from items is very handy.

    I recommend http://ddodestiny.info/ to check out destinies. Investing in Smiting uses (re-charging), Lay on Hands (re-charging) to power Light the Dark, and Turning (re-charging) to power Confront any Foe is what I would do.

    Generic Percs
    Light Vulnerability, Fortification De-Buff, and BB boost from FvS AoV I
    Burst party Heals from US Light the Dark (powered by Lay on Hands)
    spell points of a typical Battle-Cleric
    Divine Power/Favor and other standard divine buffs.
    Damage Boost IV
    Baby Haste Boost I
    AC, PRR, Saves, and HP should be very Solid...not gonna do the breakdowns.
    DoS I Stance is better than a sharp kick to the groin

    Trash
    Divine Sacrifice
    Spam Cleave and Great Cleave
    Blade Barrier

    Boss
    Unload all your turns with Confront any Foe
    Exalted Smites
    Divine Punishment
    Can Hate tank your static group with Divine Righteousness

    Madstone Boots can be fun with this build. Originally, I had a lot of this drawn up before the spell power pass, so the potency would have been superb...now it's meh. Yes, normal defensive fighting can manage the rage between blue-barring, but the DoS stance actually DOES something useful for you

    I'm sure there's more...but I hate typing

    ShadowFlash

    My "Friends and Family" is on Orien as well, so look me up if you need anything. If you roll it, I'd love to see it in action. Currently my wife and I are giving Shadowflaxe and Spiritadrftn (level 18's) most of our love in game....so best bet is to find me on him. Our 3rd (my kid) is TRing ATM rather quickly and today at least, is level 14ish. We all have 20's as well if you need help while catching up to your static group,,,but we level pretty slow, so don't expect power-leveling unless you run with my kid
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 08-21-2012 at 03:11 AM.

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    Cool Yeah.....right....

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    I'm sure there's more...but I hate typing
    Cuz that's why you have been feverishly typing ALL night long...AND might I add far more words typed here than I have ever received from my love...LOL Just sayin...

  14. #14
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiritadrft View Post
    Cuz that's why you have been feverishly typing ALL night long...AND might I add far more words typed here than I have ever received from my love...LOL Just sayin...
    Well thanks for letting me borrow your husband

    Anyways Shadowflash looks awesome I'll look into it more later but for now I have to go to work and I'm not awake enough to do any actual thinking
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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    ShadowFlash how about Warforged Inscribed Armor? ASF on Adamantine Body may be a problem.

    How about 13FvS/6Paladin/1Wizard. Lost one feat so drop Adamantine Body or Epic Toughness. Gain Master's Touch, Expeditious Retreat and one other 1st level spell, Arcane wands, and Wizard Force Manipulation I for +40 spell power on BBs.

    Divine Power will boost the BaB regardless of the +0 BaB from the Wizard level.

    Edit: FvS only get Weapon Specialization bonus at level 15 - if you like this build and TRed at some future point. Then Human with an extra feat and heal amp will likely be a better choice than WF.
    Last edited by emptysands; 08-21-2012 at 05:41 PM.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  16. #16
    The Mad Multiclasser Failedlegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    ShadowFlash how about Warforged Inscribed Armor? ASF on Adamantine Body may be a problem.
    Divine Magic isn't subjected to ASF
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan
    There is little value in getting into an edition debate; as with anything, we create what we believe works best for DDO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Failedlegend View Post
    Divine Magic isn't subjected to ASF
    Yeah I often forget that. Otherwise the classic Cleric in Full Plate would not work.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

  18. #18
    Community Member ShadowFlash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    ShadowFlash how about Warforged Inscribed Armor? ASF on Adamantine Body may be a problem.
    No ASF for Divines as mentioned. Adamantine body with the AC/PRR changes + DoS I is actually pretty tasty for damage mitigation.

    How about 13FvS/6Paladin/1Wizard. Lost one feat so drop Adamantine Body or Epic Toughness. Gain Master's Touch, Expeditious Retreat and one other 1st level spell, Arcane wands, and Wizard Force Manipulation I for +40 spell power on BBs..
    Wand use is OK, but Force manipulation does not stack with FvS AoV's boost. Master's Touch is obviously not needed with fighter and paladin proficiencies. I'm guessing you want FvS 13 for some Hjeals? Spell Power changes putting heal at 50% spell power, vs. Cure Crit at 110% spellpower, makes the curative spell lines more competitive. I personally hate this change, but plenty of bards, paladins, and rangers are enjoying the boosted cures. Remember, taking "heal", Empower Healing feat would be needed to surpass a maximized Cure Crit, costing you another feat.

    Edit: FvS only get Weapon Specialization bonus at level 15 - if you like this build and TRed at some future point. Then Human with an extra feat and heal amp will likely be a better choice than WF.
    Leveling FvS to 15 for weapon Spec. and going human with a different faith would be a completely different build. No DoS & No LoB.

    ShadowFlash

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    No ASF for Divines as mentioned. Adamantine body with the AC/PRR changes + DoS I is actually pretty tasty for damage mitigation.
    Most PPR comes from non-armor sources. But I guess if you don't have a shield then heavy armor may be a good option to get the start of the PRR power curve.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    Wand use is OK, but Force manipulation does not stack with FvS AoV's boost. Master's Touch is obviously not needed with fighter and paladin proficiencies. I'm guessing you want FvS 13 for some Hjeals? Spell Power changes putting heal at 50% spell power, vs. Cure Crit at 110% spellpower, makes the curative spell lines more competitive. I personally hate this change, but plenty of bards, paladins, and rangers are enjoying the boosted cures. Remember, taking "heal", Empower Healing feat would be needed to surpass a maximized Cure Crit, costing you another feat.
    Master Tough is replacement for martial weapon feat. There is no point to 2 wizard, so 13 FvS just follows. If AoV doesn't stack with Wizard Force Manipulation I, then my suggest breaks down.

    Heal is still pretty good with a devotion item.

    So with Quicken, Maximise (+150), Favored Soul Life Magic IV (+80) and Devotion +100. No Empower Healing or Empower.

    Heal is 150 * (1 + .8 + 1) * .5 = 150 * 1.4 = 210 for 50 SP every 4.5s
    CCW 4d6+8+18 * (1 + .8 + 1 + 1.5) = 40 * 4.3 = 172 for 47 SP every 3s.

    Actually is that 150 + 150 * (.8 + 1 ) * .5 = 285? 50% nerf only affect spell power and not base heal?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFlash View Post
    Leveling FvS to 15 for weapon Spec. and going human with a different faith would be a completely different build. No DoS & No LoB.
    Sure, just pointing this it out to people not in the OP situation and considering similar builds. WF is not required.

    There is some personal interest on my side on this rebuild - I have a WF 20 FvS eSOS build that I'm going to TR into something else.
    Varz
    Wanderlust

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    Quote Originally Posted by emptysands View Post
    Most PPR comes from non-armor sources. But I guess if you don't have a shield then heavy armor may be a good option to get the start of the PRR power curve.
    Not quite sure what you mean by this? Most of your PRR will come from your armor AFAIK? Moreover, the "heavier" the armor, the more your BAB contributes to it. For example..

    Bonuses from armor proficiency
    • Heavy Armor gives you Physical Resistance Rating equal to your Base Attack Bonus +6.
    • Medium Armor gives you Physical Resistance Rating equal to 2/3 of your Base Attack Bonus +4.
    • Light Armor gives you Physical Resistance Rating equal to 1/2 of your Base Attack Bonus +2.
    WF PRR is currently only giving straight BAB (no +6) with adamantine body.

    With Adamantine Body...
    25 (with Divine Power)
    10 passive DoS I
    10 passive Tier IV Unyielding Sentinel
    =45 (23.6%) Passive Total
    10 DoS I Defensive Stance
    20 Unbreakable Stance
    =75 (34.4%)

    Without a body feat (zero PRR granted native)
    10 passive DoS I
    10 passive Tier IV Unyielding Sentinel
    =20 (11.8%) Passive Total
    10 DoS I Defensive Stance
    20 Unbreakable Stance
    =50 (25.7%)

    I think these totals (~10% mitigation) warrant the feat cost. This does not even cover the fact, that with the substantial AC that adamantine body grants to docents, DoS boosts to AC, and US's passive AC bonus, A very respectable AC can be reached.

    Add to that US's DR auto-grant, Elemental resists from FvS, and nice saves...This can be a VERY survivable build....albiet holistically, rather than specialized.

    Master Tough is replacement for martial weapon feat
    Paladin Levels are already granting Martial Weapon Proficiency. The only use for Master's Touch would be for Tower Shields. Unfortunately, that's exactly the drawback of Wizard instead of fighter. One wizard level Vs. Two Fighter Levels costs you TWO feats, because you would need to spend an EXTRA feat to qualify for DoS (Fighter grants the qualifying Tower Shield Proficiency for free).

    Heal is still pretty good with a devotion item....snip..
    Actually, I believe it's...(spell power sources halved and build only has Life Magic III-60sp) Let's also use the highest Devotion source of 120
    150base * (1+.3+.6) = 285

    For Cure Crit....Caster Level is 17 with Unyielding Sentinel (assuming a 12/6/2 build), same Enhancements, Devotion, and Maximize (150sp according to wiki). This Spell also recieves 115% from all spell power sources.
    39base * (1+.69+1.38+1.725) = 187

    So yes, Heal is still better. It would be up to the individual as whether or not it's worth it to take FvS 13 (CCW=192) for both Blade Barrier and Heal Vs. the extra feat from 1 Fighter level. The question would be, which feat to drop? I just don't think it's worth it for this particular build. Perhaps if you don't plan on chasing Epic Toughness with a +3 CON tome and level up, dropping it, and pushing OC back to 24 would work if that's your preference.

    ShadowFlash
    Last edited by ShadowFlash; 08-22-2012 at 02:58 PM.

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