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  1. #1
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    Default Phantasmal killer, true seeing.

    http://ddowiki.com/page/Phantasmal_Killer
    "You create a phantasmal image of the most fearsome creature imaginable to the subject simply by forming the fears of the subject’s subconscious mind into something that its conscious mind can visualize: this most horrible beast. Only the spell’s Foe can see the Phantasmal Killer. You see only a vague shape."

    http://ddowiki.com/page/True_Seeing_(spell)
    "You confer on the ally the ability to see things as they actually are."

    True seeing should let you see that the image is fake and thus make you immune to the effects of the spell. Change the description or change the spell. It doesn't make sense as it stands right now.


    Edit-
    Being a fear based effect (in the description at least), fear immunity should also make you immune to it, and effects that gives a bonus to resist against fear should also give a bonus against this.
    The descriptions and the actual effects are completely inconsistent.
    Last edited by Mastikator; 08-15-2012 at 03:38 AM.
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  2. #2
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    I see it as the image being projected directly into the mind of the target so bypassing the eyes and TS


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  3. #3
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    "Only the spell’s Foe can see the Phantasmal Killer"
    You can see it that way, but the description say it's not that way.
    That which does not kill you gives you experience points.

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  4. #4
    Community Member Talias006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uska View Post
    I see it as the image being projected directly into the mind of the target so bypassing the eyes and TS
    This is how I think they mean True Sight being.
    It's a perception issue with regards to Illusions, which also gives bonuses to seeing hidden objects such as secret doors.
    The "image" from PK is only absolutely visible to the subject and somewhat perceived by the caster as a "vague shape."
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator
    "Only the spell’s Foe can see the Phantasmal Killer"
    You can see it that way, but the description say it's not that way.
    That line is in the description of the spell as a fancy way of stating the spell is single-target (on what it effects with the nightmarish vision). You can blame the D&D 3.5 source description for the way it is worded.
    Last edited by MrCow; 08-15-2012 at 03:55 AM.
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  6. #6
    Community Member Mastikator's Avatar
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    The caster can see a vague shape, it is at least partially outside the target.

    If it is a negative energy based death effect then it should be necromancy school and it should say so in the description. If it is a "scare you to death with your worst fear" effect (as it SAYS) then it should be blocked by "see through illusion" and "fear immunity" effects, not anti-death effects.
    Why am I the only one bothered by a completely inconsistent description of spells!?
    Last edited by Mastikator; 08-15-2012 at 03:57 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCow View Post
    That line is in the description of the spell as a fancy way of stating the spell is single-target (on what it effects with the nightmarish vision). You can blame the D&D 3.5 source description for the way it is worded.
    This.

    In the 3.5 D&D System, Phantasmal Killer is described as a "mind affecting" (sub-school) spell. It could be viewed as the"exception" of the Illusion school when it comes to questions like the OP's

    Actually, it seems this question has been made many times before DDO and there is no absolute answer, it depends on house rules. So, it seems that the "house-rule" in DDO is that TS wont prevent PK

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    "Only the spell’s Foe can see the Phantasmal Killer"
    You can see it that way, but the description say it's not that way.
    Doesnt matter TS shouldnt protect from PK PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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  9. 08-15-2012, 05:19 AM


  10. #9
    Community Member salmag's Avatar
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    As stated before by others, PK is a mind altering affect, so true seeing should not effect it. As for the description, that is perfectly ok as well. One can see things with their minds (i.e. day-dreaming), and not simply their eyes.

    I do, however, agree with you regarding the fear immunity. If you are immune to fear, then one would think you should be immune to fear effects.

  11. #10
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    See, the way I read PK is that you create an image that is real to the target, so as far as TS is concerned, the target of PK is seeing reality.

  12. #11
    Founder & Hero Vordax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by salmag View Post
    I do, however, agree with you regarding the fear immunity. If you are immune to fear, then one would think you should be immune to fear effects.
    Fear immunity already grants immunity to PK. It appears the OP just assumed it didn't, and did not test. Greater heroism fear immunity has been working perfectly fine to block PK since the level cap was 12.

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  13. #12
    Community Member incineration's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordax View Post
    Fear immunity already grants immunity to PK. It appears the OP just assumed it didn't, and did not test. Greater heroism fear immunity has been working perfectly fine to block PK since the level cap was 12.
    this, PK does nothing to paladins either last I checked
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  14. #13
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    True Seeing lets you see things "as they are". Effects like Blur, Displacement and magically concealed secret doors (illusion) are there so you "dont see things as they are". In other words, the purpose of True Seeing is for you to "bypass" that magical mantle that would otherwise hinder your sight.

    The purpose of Phantasmal Killer is not to cover, conceal or deceive. Its purpose its to kill the target by messing up it's psyche.

    True Seeing is not meant to grant the user "psyche-sight".

    And yes, if you have any source of fear or death-effect immunity then you are protected from PK.

  15. #14
    Community Member fco-karatekid's Avatar
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    I've wondered the same thing out it being a EDIT: illusion-based effect - looks more like it's a pseudo-psionic like mind blast.

    Nothing to stop it but will.
    Last edited by fco-karatekid; 08-15-2012 at 04:48 PM.

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mastikator View Post
    Why am I the only one bothered by a completely inconsistent description of spells!?
    First guess? Because it's hard for us to be bothered by inconsistencies that only really exist in your head.

  17. #16
    Community Member dng242's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSilence View Post
    This.

    In the 3.5 D&D System, Phantasmal Killer is described as a "mind affecting" (sub-school) spell. It could be viewed as the"exception" of the Illusion school when it comes to questions like the OP's

    Actually, it seems this question has been made many times before DDO and there is no absolute answer, it depends on house rules. So, it seems that the "house-rule" in DDO is that TS wont prevent PK
    This is basically the answer. PK has two descriptors, mind-affecting noted above and Fear. Thus fear immunity should help. You will notice death ward protects against death spells. Finger, destruction, have the death descriptor.

    As to TS. It is a conscious effect, PK is an unconscious effect.

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