Improved Sunder questions (and Stun blow and shatter items)

[RS-Makk]

I'm currently running my first fighter (actually a fighter/rogue mix) and have some questions about tactics (specifically Improved Sunder and Stunning Blow) to help me with gearing and feat selection.

I am trying to see how I can get Improved Sunder to fit with my feat list.. a question: I clearly see the benefit of Improved Sunder for boss fights, but for trash, is there any value in Improved Sunder? As far as I can tell the only benefit may be to lower the DC for Stunning Blow (hit Improved Sunder, then Stunning Blow?). Will I need that -3 in order to be effective with Stunning Blow? (a better question may be - what should my target SB DC be for epic content?).

Assuming I do have Improved Sunder and am using it against a high HP boss, is a Shatter item really all that valuable? Given the fort debuff will proc anyway, wouldn't a few ticks of the fort debuff get me there (without needing the shatter item) to ensure the boss doesn't pass the save check?

[Ap0k]

I'm currently running my first fighter (actually a fighter/rogue mix) and have some questions about tactics (specifically Improved Sunder and Stunning Blow) to help me with gearing and feat selection.

I am trying to see how I can get Improved Sunder to fit with my feat list.. a question: I clearly see the benefit of Improved Sunder for boss fights, but for trash, is there any value in Improved Sunder? As far as I can tell the only benefit may be to lower the DC for Stunning Blow (hit Improved Sunder, then Stunning Blow?). Will I need that -3 in order to be effective with Stunning Blow? (a better question may be - what should my target SB DC be for epic content?).

Assuming I do have Improved Sunder and am using it against a high HP boss, is a Shatter item really all that valuable? Given the fort debuff will proc anyway, wouldn't a few ticks of the fort debuff get me there (without needing the shatter item) to ensure the boss doesn't pass the save check?

You are right, for trash the main benefit is the fortitude debuff. As a DC you should target the 50s. Mid to high 40s is enough for epic normal and epic hard, mid 50s for reliable stunns on epic elite. since imp sunder only has 10s cooldown and stunning blow 15s you can always throw that one in before the stun.
I never used a shatter item as I ususally could sunder raidbosses after i had the full stack of fort debuffs on em (-15 to fortitude).


stunning blow dc is 10+str+enhancements (Dwarf, WF, Fighter(max+4))+5combat mastery item+ (Fighter Past Lifes max +3)
+10 stunning item+6 Legendary tactics

if you can fit a shatter item like say epic marilith chain your golden on that front as well. But its not necessary in my opinion.

if you can twist legendary tactics and sense weakness from fury of the wild you will be a stunner extraordinaire!

[Kinerd]

The tricky part with bosses is that some bosses aren't necessarily in melee range for long enough to keep your Fort debuff stack going; consider Arraetrikos or HRM Lailat. Depending on your tactics investment, difficulty level, and party involvement a Shatter item may (barbs, rogues) or may not (fighters) matter.

[RS-Makk]

That reminds me, another question I had was: any way to tell if other folks are using / proc'ing improved sunder on the same target?

[Book_O_Dragons]

That reminds me, another question I had was: any way to tell if other folks are using / proc'ing improved sunder on the same target?

if the fortification debuff or the improved sunder icon on the examine screen are not under your name all the time they are.

[RS-Makk]

thanks all for the info

So it looks like a shatter item may not be needed a lot of the time (it's situational, depending on boss and party) and just relying on the -15 fort debuff may be enough? If so, then trading off an item that increases DPS to slot a shatter item is a bad idea. Sounds about right?