My depressing DDO Day (Renown)

[kafrielveddicus]

I do not 'realize things are great just the way they are'

The system is broken, and needs to be re-examined.

OH, I thought this comment of yours;
"The beauty of a very long conversation on forums is that minds can be changed.
It's like magic, it is."

meant that you had changed your mind!

As I see I am wrong in this assumption, then what you are saying is that you are going to change the minds of all those that have already said "suck it up, buttercup" and chosse which type of guild you wish to have based of the system that works exactly the way it is suppose to work, by creating different classes of guilds in the game!

[eris2323]

OH, I thought this comment of yours;
"The beauty of a very long conversation on forums is that minds can be changed.
It's like magic, it is."

meant that you had changed your mind!

As I see I am wrong in this assumption, then what you are saying is that you are going to change the minds of all those that have already said "suck it up, buttercup" and chosse which type of guild you wish to have based of the system that works exactly the way it is suppose to work, by creating different classes of guilds in the game!

Yeah, you were wrong.

The ones who have told me to 'suck it up buttercup' have had their say; I'm not sure why they keep coming back to the thread, except they probably want the thread closed.

I hope the mods see through that.

[eris2323]

Going from 72 to 73 is not making a community grow. A community is made up of the people, and their interactions, not the meaningless number at the end of your guild name.

By kicking your friends, you are diminishing your community, not growing it.

The math has made it so there is no chance of the community growing. I think the system is broken.

I understand that you do not. I'm not sure why you keep repeating yourself.

I understand that you think guild renown is meaningless.

I'm not entirely sure why you keep repeating yourself, but rest assured, I understand.

I just don't agree.

[eris2323]

"Guild" does not equal "Guild level".

"Guild" equals "people in the guild" or "community"

I don't care about "Guild level". I care about the "people in the guild".

We're not kicking people out because I and my guildmates care about our "community", not our "Guild level"

Your guild, on the other hand, cares more about "guild level" than your "community"

So I find it amusing that you say I don't care about my guild (i.e. the people), when I obviously care more than your guildmates do, because I am not kicking my friends, while they ARE kicking their friends.

I understand that you don't care about guild renown, and I am not sure why you keep repeating yourself.

[eris2323]

Your inability to understand me is not my fault or my problem.

I think you... uh... misunderstood what I was saying there.

[Kylstrem]

This is just insulting.

Insulting to who???

I posed a hypothetical "someone"...

If the hypothetical "someone" I presented doesn't match your philosophy, then you would have no reason to be insulted.

If the hypothetical "someone" I presented does match your philosophy, then essentially I've told the truth about you and then you are going down the road of saying "the truth about me is insulting to me" and then that's getting into some serious issues.

[Thrudh]

I am not sure why you keep repeating yourself.

This is why

I get that you don't care about your guild.

I understand that you don't care about guild renown

These are two very different statments. I have to repeat my statement because you don't seem to understand my position. Not caring about guld renown past a certain point does not equal not caring about my guild.

My position is that kicking one's friends is a much bigger indication of not caring about one's guild/community.

I get that you do care about your guild, because you realize that kicking your friends does diminish your guild/community. I'm sorry that your guildmates do not care as much about your guild/community as you do.

[eris2323]

Insulting to who???

I posed a hypothetical "someone"...

If the hypothetical "someone" I presented doesn't match your philosophy, then you would have no reason to be insulted.

If the hypothetical "someone" I presented does match your philosophy, then essentially I've told the truth about you and then you are going down the road of saying "the truth about me is insulting to me" and then that's getting into some serious issues.

Oh, it was personally insulting - to me.

"I still don't see why anyone is still arguing with the OP. When someone has the viewpoint of"

I hope the mods see that one, too.

[Kylstrem]

Oh, it was personally insulting - to me.

"I still don't see why anyone is still arguing with the OP. When someone has the viewpoint of"

I hope the mods see that one, too.

Yes, they can see it... If I had meant to insult you I would used your name. Instead I created a hypothetical someone.

I can't help it if you are seeing insults where there are none.

In fact, using your tactics, I can say "Wow... you are personally insulting me by intentionally mis-representing my post in order to try to have the moderators take actions against me".

I hope the moderators see that.

See, we can all play the martyr here.

[eris2323]

You're saying it's the games fault you can't pull in over 10k renown a day?

My guildies can probably pull that in an hour of play. We almost always take renown, especially legendaries and impressives.

I'm not sure where you got 10k renown per day.

Your number is WAY off.

[DragonMageT]

You're saying it's the games fault you can't pull in over 10k renown a day?

My guildies can probably pull that in an hour of play. We almost always take renown, especially legendaries and impressives.

How about 50K of renown everyday for 30 days ?
How about 100k of renown everyday for 30 days ?

What if you pike a day, you going to make up 20k the next day.

Sound a bit much does it ? (and you don't get to figure in guild size bonuses)

All depends on the activity of your guild.

[eris2323]

How about 50K of renown everyday for 30 days ?
How about 100k of renowned everyday for 30 days ?

What if you pike a day, you going to make up 20k the next day.

Sound a bit much does it ? (and you don't get to figure in guild size bonuses)

All depends on the activity of your guild.

Or, could be 70,524 per day. Or 2,115,720 per month.

Just to break even.

[eris2323]

So, a casual player plays one day a week.

That's 4,571 each week owed.

Say you have, say, 40 casual players out of 100.

That's 182,840 for casuals. Each week.

That's 731,360, each month, for your group of casual players.

[Bosco]

Who of my friends should I kill?

Can i get an ETA on when you killed your friends and the horse that was beaten to death?

[Thrudh]

So, a casual player plays one day a week.

That's 4,571 each week owed.

Say you have, say, 40 casual players out of 100.

That's 182,840 for casuals. Each week.

That's 731,360, each month, for your group of casual players.

So for your 60 non-casuals, they need to make up 12189 extra guild renown each to cover their friends, the casuals. Over a month.

That's 406 renown a day. Plus their own 653 renown decay each day.

So 1000 a day from the 60 non-casuals for the entire guild to break even. Not too bad.

This is assuming the numbers above are correct for a guild of 100 accounts at guild level ??

This will be my last post in this thread by the way. Take care all.

[phillymiket]

At this point if I were in your guild reading my leaders post's I would be embarrassed to death so you wouldn't have to kill me.
.

[eris2323]

So for your 60 non-casuals, they need to make up 12189 extra guild renown each to cover their friends, the casuals. Over a month.

That's 406 renown a day. Plus their own 653 renown decay each day.

So 1000 a day from the 60 non-casuals for the entire guild to break even. Not too bad.

This is assuming the numbers above are correct for a guild of 100 accounts at guild level ??

This will be my last post in this thread by the way. Take care all.

Oh no, it's not that easy.

The first 40 casuals were once a week players.

Now let's think about the other 40 casuals. They place once a month.

They immediately owe 19,500 each. Immediately. Upon logging in to say hi. So, 40 of those... 783,600 per month.

Now okay, we've got some inactives that are STAYING inactive.... that's say, 60 more. They aren't costing anything, but they're not gaining anything either.

So, in the end, we have... 48 players that play fairly regularly.

They now have to make up the vast majority of the 2,115,720, just to break even.

Now we're looking at 11019.375 per week needed by those active, playing characters to cover the mostly inactive ones.

Really? Seriously? Just because we allow casual players?

Caveat: My math may have been wrong, but it is also conservative. There is not 48 people who play EVERY DAY. There are 48 people who play enough to be considered NOT once-a-weekers or once-a-monthers. Twice a week players, players who play 4 times a week. Assuming they are all daily players is incorrect on both of our parts.

This isn't right. This is broken. This is not fun anymore.

This is math.

[Kylstrem]

This is so easy. Kick out the once-a-monthers. Once a month is not Casual!

someone who only logs in once a day a every month, 12 times a year?!?! And you are worried about keeping them in the guild WHY??!?!


These surely can't be people you care about. If they want to login to say hi, start a channel and tell them about it... then they can login and everyone in the guild can see them say Hi 12 times a year.

But 3-4 threads and countless arguments and you finally bring up this bit of news?!?!

This further proves this is in no way a game-mechanic issue, but rather a guild leadership issue.

[eris2323]

This is so easy. Kick out the once-a-monthers.

someone who only logs in once a day a every month, 12 times a year?!?! And you are worried about keeping them in the guild WHY??!?!


These surely can't be people you care about. If they want to login to say hi, start a channel and tell them about it... then they can login and everyone in the guild can see them say Hi 12 times a year.

But 3-4 threads and countless arguments and you finally bring up this bit of news?!?!

This further proves this is in no way a game-mechanic issue, but rather a guild leadership issue.

This is my whole point. Why should we have to kick out the once a monthers?

If we do, we will have to pay 365,680 debt just from the action of kicking them, as well as 25% of whatever they added during their years of play.

Not to mention the 60 real people who would have to go are being penalized solely because they don't play daily.

The system is very unfriendly to casual players who want to be part of a social guild. It has never been seriously examined, and I believe it has flaws that could be fixed that would make the game more fun for all.

Casual players pay money too. Casual players pay money to avoid the grind. Casual players pay money for adventure packs, they pay for vip.

They shouldn't be so harshly penalized, and there should exist the ability for large, social guilds to support a casual population.

[LordPiglet]

I'm not sure where you got 10k renown per day.

Your number is WAY off.

sorry, misread it, it's just over 100k

How about 50K of renown everyday for 30 days ?
How about 100k of renown everyday for 30 days ?

What if you pike a day, you going to make up 20k the next day.

Sound a bit much does it ? (and you don't get to figure in guild size bonuses)

All depends on the activity of your guild.

Still as the numbers show, with 187 that's just over 500 renown per account. Even if they don't play daily, an casual account should be able to hit over 500 renown daily average.

As far as me, yeah, I almost always take renown in end rewards, have used pots etc (especially when they were the weekly sample item). Most members of my guild follow this same policy and commitment.

My main, has earned over 2.3 million renown. That's one out of 7 active toons I have. If he wants to run a large casual guild, then he has to accept the downside that not everyone will be doing their part to earn renown, take renown when needed, etc. Other members have to make up for that. Instead of caring so much about guild level, why not just make sure you're having fun with your guild. Isn't that really the point. You don't want to kick your friends, then don't. If others in the guild want to, then they can always find a guild more to their liking and style of play.