My depressing DDO Day (Renown)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Got a GuildieD who's actively serving in the military, and can log in once every week or two to say hello, but whose connection isn't good enough to play regularly? According to US Federal Law, you're not allowed to kick their families out of their homes, you're not allowed to fire them, but Turbine encourages you to boot them!

We had 2 members that are in Europe right now, serving in the armed forces.

As a vet, I stated the last to go would be those 2 people.
Before they got deployed, I made an agreement that when they get back state-side, or, can start playing again, they would have a guild to return to. Which they will.

But the fact remains. We were forced to remove those last 2 members to get under 12 members, and lessen decay!

What!!!????? I'm hoping Turbine staff reads this thread, and the other threads against decay, and makes an adjustment.

"Renown is bad for the game" Period.

[eris2323]

I didn't see Thrudh's post or I wouldn't have referenced it again. I do think the reason you've seen it twice is because it's so relevant here

Also you've ignored the substantive part of my post. How exactly does removing these people from the guild affect your ability to play with them?

Generally when you have to tell people 'you're not good enough in turbines eyes to be allowed to play with us' and remove them from the guild - they tend to get angry about it. They're quite rightly justified, in my eyes - they DID help us grow the guild to get where we are today.

Yes, Yes... I know... I'll only have to 'deal with it'. just like we should 'deal with' never be able to gain another guild level again.

You don't see a problem in that part of the problem, either?

[eris2323]

We had 2 members that are in Europe right now, serving in the armed forces.

As a vet, I stated the last to go would be those 2 people.
Before they got deployed, I made an agreement that when they get back state-side, or, can start playing again, they would have a guild to return to. Which they will.

But the fact remains. We were forced to remove those last 2 members to get under 12 members, and lessen decay!

What!!!????? I'm hoping Turbine staff reads this thread, and the other threads against decay, and makes an adjustment.

"Renown is bad for the game" Period.

If the government comes after you for breaking federal law; I got your back.

Will testify that guild renown system forced you to do it, extenuating circumstances, temporary insanity, whatever it takes.

[kafrielveddicus]

Those that have the guilds to earn level 100 deserve it!

Others just have to accept their activity and results as far as renown and decay go, and accept what guild level they will reach as their pinnacle, atleast there is something in game that is attainable by only those that deserve it. oh and by the way our guild is only level 41 and will be quite happy to reach into the 50's at some point but dont expect anything more than that!

People need to stop whining about "i don't have what the other guy has and just enjoy the game for what it is!"

[OzmarDDO]

We will not be able to retain our level above 70 for more than a couple of weeks.

Not with current renown drops.

We will be losing all we've worked (AND PAID REAL MONEY FOR - LOOKIN AT YOU, GUILD RENOWN POTS) for.

Unless I kill my friends.

Harsh! You kill them when you kick them out of the guild? And you call yourself a "casual" guild???

I'd hate to see what you consider hard-core!

-Ozmar the Shocked

[eris2323]

I'm not whining about what the other guy has.

I'm whining about never being able to grow as a guild, unless we take Turbines arbitrary guild renown number formulas, and work with it to remove our casual players, who happen to be friends, who have helped to build our guild.

You uh... might wanna read back through the thread.

Just want a fair chance. Shouldn't have to 'settle'.

And it's ruining my ability to enjoy the game.

Therefore, I post!

[Captain_Wizbang]

If the government comes after you for breaking federal law; I got your back.

Will testify that guild renown system forced you to do it, extenuating circumstances, temporary insanity, whatever it takes.

As your reply is humorous, it is in fact sad, removing 2 members to shore up the renown deficit . I did not mean to fuel the fire about the veteran subject, as it is affects many people in RL.
I support 100% any program to help active duty service members, from ANY country.

[eris2323]

Harsh! You kill them when you kick them out of the guild? And you call yourself a "casual" guild???

I'd hate to see what you consider hard-core!

-Ozmar the Shocked

Well, at that point... they know too much.

[eris2323]

As your reply is humorous, it is in fact sad, removing 2 members to shore up the renown deficit . I did not mean to fuel the fire about the veteran subject, as it is affects many people in RL. And support 100% any program to help active duty service members, from ANY country.

We have a lot of vets in our guild; I myself was born into a military family and travelled all over the place because of it.

It was a humorous response yes; but it's not a fair one. They give their lives in some cases, so we can complain about DDO. They shouldn't have had to be removed by you. Even if they are immediately re-invited... they will have to contact you, and get it set up.

Instead of being welcomed back, right off the bat, guild items and guild chat intact.

That's a horrible choice to have to make right there, and I do not envy you sir.

[kafrielveddicus]

I'm not whining about what the other guy has.

I'm whining about never being able to grow as a guild, unless we take Turbines arbitrary guild renown number formulas, and work with it to remove our casual players, who happen to be friends, who have helped to build our guild.

You uh... might wanna read back through the thread.

Just want a fair chance. Shouldn't have to 'settle'.

And it's ruining my ability to enjoy the game.

Therefore, I post!

They have guild renown formulas, and you have chosen to have casual guild friends which doesn't allow your guild to grow beyond a certain level, that is your choice to play that way and enjoy your casual friends, just accept where that leaves you on guild ship levels! it is only ruining your ability to enjoy the game because you feel you deserve what others have thru hard dedicated progress. When you chose casual friends you chose to settle with the conditions of that over the long run, just accept your guild ship level and continue to enjoy the rest of the game for what it is!

[eris2323]

They have guild renown formulas, and you have chosen to have casual guild friends which doesn't allow your guild to grow beyond a certain level, that is your choice to play that way and enjoy your casual friends, just accept where that leaves you on guild ship levels! it is only ruining your ability to enjoy the game because you feel you deserve what others have thru hard dedicated progress. When you chose casual friends you chose to settle with the conditions of that over the long run, just accept your guild ship level and continue to enjoy the rest of the game for what it is!

No.

I will not accept it. It's wrong.

[kafrielveddicus]

No.

I will not accept it. It's wrong.

No, Actually it is right as guild renown and guild ships are solely suppose to be based off guild activity, the guilds with the most activity and playtime amongst all of their guildies on average are going to reach the highest levels of guildome, your guild my friend does not fit in that bracket, for that matter nor does mine, but I have a ton of respect for those that have earned the highest levels of guildome as they have truly earned it! Those few can call themselves hardcore gamers!

[Susalona]

They have guild renown formulas, and you have chosen to have casual guild friends which doesn't allow your guild to grow beyond a certain level, that is your choice to play that way and enjoy your casual friends, just accept where that leaves you on guild ship levels! it is only ruining your ability to enjoy the game because you feel you deserve what others have thru hard dedicated progress. When you chose casual friends you chose to settle with the conditions of that over the long run, just accept your guild ship level and continue to enjoy the rest of the game for what it is!

Very well said. Guilds have to choose as a whole what directions to take. It's a choice. Getting a high level guild should be an achievement, not a guarantee.

[Thrudh]

There should be a way to designate a casual guild member as an "associate" member of the guild. The "associate" could still be in the guild and use the social aspect of guild membership, but not have to be forced out.

Just some ideas, but here are some restrictions you could put on "associate" guild members:

• Any renown they gain does not count towards the guild renown.
• Any renown they gained prior to becoming an "associate" decays at the normal rate, but they are no longer counted as full members for guild size purposes.
• 30 minute ship buffs instead of 60 minutes.
• Removing an "associate" removes their renown from the guild as though they were a full member.
• When demoting a member to "associate" level their renown decays at the normal rate until their contribution to guild renown is depleted, then they are no longer counted for guild size.

Those are cool ideas..

I also liked Impaqt's idea in the other thread that decay based on number of active accounts should be determined every single day. If a person doesn't log on that day, his account shouldn't be counted as an "active" account.

[kafrielveddicus]

Very well said. Guilds have to choose as a whole what directions to take. It's a choice. Getting a high level guild should be an achievement, not a guarantee.

Thank you!

+1 Rep for you!

[eris2323]

Guild level is NOT casual friendly. I'm not the only poster who believes so.

We have a problem with being told to 'just settle' - to accept we'll never get anywhere higher. We just want a fair chance to keep growing.

[Thrudh]

Generally when you have to tell people 'you're not good enough in turbines eyes to be allowed to play with us' and remove them from the guild - they tend to get angry about it. They're quite rightly justified, in my eyes - they DID help us grow the guild to get where we are today.

Yes, Yes... I know... I'll only have to 'deal with it'. just like we should 'deal with' never be able to gain another guild level again.

You don't see a problem in that part of the problem, either?

I seriously don't... and that's where we disagree... Not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying here's another way to look at it.

Our guild has stalled out, and we're fine with it. The numbers don't mean anything to us.. What does a bigger ship give us? Just more running about and a sonic resist shrine. That's it... We have every single buff except sonic resist on the medium ship. So why is getting to level 80 or 85 so important?

I'd rather keep my more casual friends in the guild.

I know the numbers mean something to you, but why? Why is it important to get to 85 instead of hanging out at 70?

[kafrielveddicus]

This is starting to become an "Occupy" DDO thread!

[eris2323]

I seriously don't... and that's where we disagree... Not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying here's another way to look at it.

Our guild has stalled out, and we're fine with it. The numbers don't mean anything to us.. What does a bigger ship give us? Just more running about and a sonic resist shrine. That's it... We have every single buff except sonic resist on the medium ship. So why is getting to level 80 or 85 so important?

I'd rather keep my more casual friends in the guild.

I know the numbers mean something to you, but why? Why is it important to get to 85 instead of hanging out at 70?

It means something to me, because it means something to a percentage of the currently active people I currently play with. I'm not just one person here thrudh - this is a large(ish) guild. This concerns 187 real people.

A guild that is forever cut off from ever getting another accomplishment is a dead end, and that is how you lose your active players to the little 6 and 12 person guilds.

Which we then pay decay for 14 days for again - on top of our casuals, because the people who DO want to gain levels will leave to do so, rather than fight for years to stay the same level they are.

Sure, some are fine with never gaining a level. Some are not. Those who are not, will leave. This causes more 'bad math' that hurts us more.

It's really pretty simple, when you think about it.

Just because YOU don't care about gaining levels, doesn't mean other people don't, or shouldn't.

[Thrudh]

Guild level is NOT casual friendly. I'm not the only poster who believes so.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree... And I think you read way too much into our motivations behind quoting movies.

We're nerds. Quoting a good movie in a Internet thread on a nerd-game forum is how we get respect from fellow nerds!

But we can agree to disagree on that too.

Respectfully,

Thrudh.