My depressing DDO Day (Renown)

[shadereaper33]

Seriously, the whole "killing my friends" bit takes an otherwise legitimate complaint and just makes it comical. Honestly, over-exaggerating the situation does nothing but make you look bad. I can understand your complaint, and personally I think the decay system should be overhauled such that it is set on a month to month basis as follows: daily guild renown decay equals total renown earned by the guild during the previous month divided by 100 (i.e. 1% of last months total renown income is your decay for this month). That way, when guilds hit a stretch of low renown income, their decay will drop accordingly. The exact percentage of decay is open for debate, but I think the once a month calculation should stay at that time frame to keep some semblance of stability within the guild. along with this system, we would need a tooltip somewhere on the guild tab showing the current rate of decay and the current renown earned during the month.

[madmaxhunter]

70 gets you 97% of the benefits. That's all I'm saying... 63 gets you 95% of the benefits...

If you're truly a casual guild, I'd think being able to maintain around that level is pretty good... And not a hard choice.

That's all you're saying over and over again. This may shock you, different people have different styles of play.

Gratz on 13k+ posts.

[sebastianosmith]

I'm sorry your having such a hard time of it. Perhaps you might contact those members who are the most casual and ask for a few volunteers. I know it may not be easy to get hold of them, but having someone willingly resign would help assuage your burden. Hopefully they would understand and realize they'd be welcomed back when circumstance permits.

I wish you well.

[eris2323]

I bet right now people are considering if they might have different meanings for the word 'meaningless'

But I dunno, it was kinda tricky there - you really had to be paying attention there to notice it.

[Thrudh]

This may shock you, different people have different styles of play.

Yes, ubers want 100%. Casuals, BY DEFINITION, should be fine with less than 100%.

Get 95% of the benefits and not having to kick your homeless friends seems like a pretty easy decision to me.

If getting that last 5% of the benefits is more important than your homeless friends, then I don't think you can call yourself a "casual" guild anymore.

And again, I'm not against a revamp of guild decay... The system could use a change, but it's not that terrible as is... 95% benefits for everyone is a pretty casual friendly system.

[eris2323]

I'm sorry your having such a hard time of it. Perhaps you might contact those members who are the most casual and ask for a few volunteers. I know it may not be easy to get hold of them, but having someone willingly resign would help assuage your burden. Hopefully they would understand and realize they'd be welcomed back when circumstance permits.

I wish you well.

Actually, the main problem isn't QUITE that.

It's that the characters have to be both removed, and they can't be allowed to return as casual players.

What is hurting us is the people who log in once every couple of weeks... then cause 30 days decay.

I personally love that these people can even come say Hi.

Turbine has decided that saying "HI" is worth 30 days of renown debt.

Allow these casual players back in would just cause the exact same problem they are currently causing.

It's sadder than 'well, we hope you can rejoin us someday' its more like 'turbine has decided your class of casual playing has no place with us, and they made a system to prove it to us. Your contribution, past or present, is meaningless unless you can commit to playing more than once a week... (or month... or day, or whatever it would end up being, depending on your guild level and amout of players)

[eris2323]

Yes, ubers want 100%. Casuals, BY DEFINITION, should be fine with less than 100%.

Get 95% of the benefits and not having to kick your homeless friends seems like a pretty easy decision to me.

If getting that last 5% of the benefits is more important than your homeless friends, then I don't think you can call yourself a "casual" player anymore.

And again, I'm not against a revamp of guild decay... For some strange reason, I just feel compelled to jump in whenever someone exaggerates wildly on these forums... and that's why I have 13,000 posts...

The system could use a change, but it's not that terrible as is... 95% benefits for everyone is a pretty casual friendly system.

So, having a system with both casual players, and people who play daily, is just foreign to you? Having a wide, varied group? It must always be that all casual players stick together (but then, who would combat the decay) and all powergamers must stick together?

I'm sorry you don't see the value in having many different kinds of friends, as opposed to just the same power-gamer friends you see every day, who can't form a raid because the ideal mathematically sound number for guild size is six.

I guess it takes different strokes, for different folks, huh?

[madmaxhunter]

*snip*
And again, I'm not against a revamp of guild decay... For some strange reason, I just feel compelled to jump in whenever someone exaggerates wildly on these forums... and that's why I have 13,000 posts...
*snip*

Okay, that we can agree on. I took kill a friend to equal kill a friendship. I know I've done that more than once.

On the rest though, I'm not an uber/elitist/min-maxer type, nor is my guild. Forget Eris's guild, forget mine. The guild system as it stands today is hurting DDO.

Hell, I can still remember the thrill of all of us standing around watching renown hit a new rank. 50! Woot! All of us typing "gratz" in guild chat. Rushing to the vendor to get the next ship. Going onto the ship and chatting about what color to make what, where to put the amenities. Now there are 9 of us. 6 of whom rarely log on. That's the depression I believe eris was talking about.

[eris2323]

At one point, there was between 300 and 400 of us.

I can't recall, it was so long ago, and I'm horrible with number memory.

Now it's less than half that.

How many more friends will we have to lose, solely to break even?

[Inferno346]

It's a common fallacy to think that nonexistence is "neutral", that is, killing someone who is living a good life is somehow detrimental to them. But really, actually ceasing to exist is neither worse nor better than living well-- it is simply the same; you are not robbing them of anything.

I hope this knowledge allows you to more easily kill your friends without remorse.

[eris2323]

It doesn't.

[NostraVar]

It's just... ugh.

Makes me just want to log off of DDO, and go play minesweeper.

How can I choose?

Should I choose GuildieB - who is currently homeless due to bad family situation - but can occasionally log in and say hi?
.....
Turbine, you've put me in a bad position here.

Decay needs to stay.
Otherwise, lets just give everyone a guild lvl 100, and the best ship with all the buffs. Permanently, no timers.

Powergamers will auction themselves off for membership into a guild to get them to lvl 100. Then leave and do it again.

Cuz that is what would happen, without some form of decay mechanic.

As fer yer GuildieB, he should do the right thing an drop guild. Seriously, he can always rejoin when his situation improves. He can keep in touch the same way everyone did before guild chat existed. Through friendslists and or channels.

The guild lvls were designed as a perk.
I know the guild that I am in will plateau at some point. When it does, it does.
And if we lose active members, it will decline.

Guess what? The game can still be played and yes, even enjoyed without these perks.
You are creating this inner-turmoil yourself, to yourself.

Should I rage at the clerk cuz I can not afford to buy a perk of a dessert for lunch? No, It's not a necessity it's a perk.

[Susalona]

kill my friends

You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means. (/Inigo Montoya off)

I just can't take you or your issue seriously when you are being this melodramatic. You're not killing your friends. You're not deleting their characters. You're not even removing your ability to play with them. You're just removing them from your guild, which no one is forcing you to do. You are choosing to do it keep your guild level, which as others have pointed out, is probably not that important to keep the majority of the guild benefits.

Just start a channel and include all those people in it if it's that important to you, then reinvite them if they become active again.

[eris2323]

Decay needs to stay.
Otherwise, lets just give everyone a guild lvl 100, and the best ship with all the buffs. Permanently, no timers.

Powergamers will auction themselves off for membership into a guild to get them to lvl 100. Then leave and do it again.

Cuz that is what would happen, without some form of decay mechanic.

As fer yer GuildieB, he should do the right thing an drop guild. Seriously, he can always rejoin when his situation improves. He can keep in touch the same way everyone did before guild chat existed. Through friendslists and or channels.

The guild lvls were designed as a perk.
I know the guild that I am in will plateau at some point. When it does, it does.
And if we lose active members, it will decline.

Guess what? The game can still be played and yes, even enjoyed without these perks.
You are creating this inner-turmoil yourself, to yourself.

Should I rage at the clerk cuz I can not afford to buy a perk of a dessert for lunch? No, It's not a necessity it's a perk.

Did I even once suggest removing renown?

I would like a fair chance. I would like to not suffer (as much) for our casual players.

Never once suggested removing decay.

[eris2323]

You keep using that phrase. I do not think it means what you think it means. (/Inigo Montoya off)

I just can't take you or your issue seriously when you are being this melodramatic. You're not killing your friends. You're not deleting their characters. You're not even removing your ability to play with them. You're just removing them from your guild, which no one is forcing you to do. You are choosing to do it keep your guild level, which as others have pointed out, is probably not that important to keep the majority of the guild benefits.

Just start a channel and include all those people in it if it's that important to you, then reinvite them if they become active again.

I just can't take you seriously; when you see the silly words 'I do not think it means what you think it means', in reference to a lame movie from decades ago, more than twice in a single day. Sorry bout that.

DDO Memes. Love em or hate em, I guess.

[Susalona]

I just can't take you seriously; when you see the silly words 'I do not think it means what you think it means', in reference to a lame movie from decades ago, more than twice in a single day. Sorry bout that.

DDO Memes. Love em or hate em, I guess.

I didn't see Thrudh's post or I wouldn't have referenced it again. I do think the reason you've seen it twice is because it's so relevant here

Also you've ignored the substantive part of my post. How exactly does removing these people from the guild affect your ability to play with them?

[psteen1]

I just can't take you seriously; when you see the silly words 'I do not think it means what you think it means', in reference to a lame movie from decades ago, more than twice in a single day. Sorry bout that.

DDO Memes. Love em or hate em, I guess.

Despite your dislike of people quoting movies, that shouldn't block you off from good ideas.

Set the guild rule that after a month (or some number, you pick), a guild member is automatically removed from the guild. Upon returning to the game, they send you a tell, or talk into a pre-set channel to get their membership back. No hard feelings- set it up as a guild rule and expectation.

Will this solve all your problems? No. But it will help some.

My guild boots everyone after 60 days. Officers and members alike, a character is gone after 60 days. It is expected so there is no concern of hurting someone's feelings.

[Barazon]

It's just... ugh.

Makes me just want to log off of DDO, and go play minesweeper.

How can I choose?

Should I choose GuildieA, who is working to support 4 kids, and has only been able to log in twice this month - but who is an excellent player, and an all around good person?

Should I choose GuildieB - who is currently homeless due to bad family situation - but can occasionally log in and say hi?

Should I choose GuidleC - who spent the turbine points every day they played to keep a renown pot running 24/7? But they couldn't play much, they got the wife-aggro too much if they were online too much? And now can only average an hour or two a week?

All. Real. People.

All. Real. Friends.

Turbine, you've put me in a bad position here.

Got a GuildieD who's actively serving in the military, and can log in once every week or two to say hello, but whose connection isn't good enough to play regularly? According to US Federal Law, you're not allowed to kick their families out of their homes, you're not allowed to fire them, but Turbine encourages you to boot them!

[eris2323]

Despite your dislike of people quoting movies, that shouldn't block you off from good ideas.

Set the guild rule that after a month (or some number, you pick), a guild member is automatically removed from the guild. Upon returning to the game, they send you a tell, or talk into a pre-set channel to get their membership back. No hard feelings- set it up as a guild rule and expectation.

Will this solve all your problems? No. But it will help some.

My guild boots everyone after 60 days. Officers and members alike, a character is gone after 60 days. It is expected so there is no concern of hurting someone's feelings.

I dislike people quoting movies when it is an obvious attempt at an insult; Yup.

We've actually had a similiar system set up the past. But here's the thing. We can't ever go higher without removing them again - so, what, we boot the idle character out, he comes back in, plays for day.... we take 30 more days renown debt for that character.... and we kick him out again?

This system doesn't work. You're losing the 25% for kicking him, plus 30 days debt each time.

It's even worse than letting people 'just be idle'.

[gk_zone]

There should be a way to designate a casual guild member as an "associate" member of the guild. The "associate" could still be in the guild and use the social aspect of guild membership, but not have to be forced out.

Just some ideas, but here are some restrictions you could put on "associate" guild members:

• Any renown they gain does not count towards the guild renown.
• Any renown they gained prior to becoming an "associate" decays at the normal rate, but they are no longer counted as full members for guild size purposes.
• 30 minute ship buffs instead of 60 minutes.
• Removing an "associate" removes their renown from the guild as though they were a full member.
• When demoting a member to "associate" level their renown decays at the normal rate until their contribution to guild renown is depleted, then they are no longer counted for guild size.