My depressing DDO Day (Renown)

[eris2323]

So... today I logged in, do my normal stuff.

I have to check renown first off, so when I get the messages later today asking about it, I know what's up.

Uh oh, it's fallen even lower.

So, today's first big DDO decision in my game...

Which of these 187 accounts of great people and good friends... should I *BANISH* for not playing enough.

Which should be deleted.

Of the One Hundred Eighty Seven. Accounts.

Who of my friends should I kill?

THIS IS NOT A CHOICE I FEEL I SHOULD HAVE TO MAKE

And - this is not even to gain levels. It's just to have a chance to break even and stay where we are. We lost our ability to gain levels the day after they implemented renown decay. Our large, casual guild just could not support itself AND grow. We've been the same level for years, and it's demoralizing.

This is my most depressing DDO Day ever. I have to kill off some of my friends, so they won't come back, and cause another 30 days debt for logging in for a day to say Hi.

I have to shove it in their faces - DDO doesn't want your type here, go away. DDO has placed a value on all players, and you do not play enough to have value to them - which is obvious from the amount of penalty we get from allowing casual players into our guilds. I guess guilds only exist for the PowerGamers, and the rest of us should go find another game.

I could be playing the game, and enjoying myself, Turbine. I could be letting the new people I meet in my current TR life have a chance at joining us, if I feel their personality matches our guild. I could be playing. I could be having fun. I could be meeting new people.

Thanks for not letting that happen.

(so sick of this renown decay garbage - make your game more friendly for casual and new players - and the guilds that support them. We're not looking for a free ride, we're looking for a fair chance.)

[danotmano1998]

Agreed.

It sucks when you have to nuke your friends.

If it were up to me, I wouldn't kick any friends no matter what.. but..
The guild wants to increase levels. To do that, you have to make hard cuts.

Not because of any reason other than they are casual players..
Not a fun decision.

[madmaxhunter]

I did something stupid yesterday, I let a player into my guild, worse is he's a dual boxer, so two accounts into the guild. Guild went from 7 to 9. A player that's been inactive for over six monthes logged on, 10 actives now. I was angry that he logged on. I share your depression.

[eris2323]

It's just... ugh.

Makes me just want to log off of DDO, and go play minesweeper.

How can I choose?

Should I choose GuildieA, who is working to support 4 kids, and has only been able to log in twice this month - but who is an excellent player, and an all around good person?

Should I choose GuildieB - who is currently homeless due to bad family situation - but can occasionally log in and say hi?

Should I choose GuidleC - who spent the turbine points every day they played to keep a renown pot running 24/7? But they couldn't play much, they got the wife-aggro too much if they were online too much? And now can only average an hour or two a week?

All. Real. People.

All. Real. Friends.

Turbine, you've put me in a bad position here.

[madmaxhunter]

Sorry eris, Turbine doesn't care. They've made that clear. Either they don't care, or they got their heads stuck in the sand, hoping this issue will go away.

[Thrudh]

What level is your guild?

If you can maintain above 70, then you really don't need to delete any guild members.

You don't get very much for guild levels above 70... It's much easier to decide between your "friends" (you have 187 friends?) and the tiny benefits above guild level 70.

Now if your guild is dropping back into the high 50s, and you're losing your +2 stat shrines... then yeah, you better start kicking people.

[eris2323]

We will not be able to retain our level above 70 for more than a couple of weeks.

Not with current renown drops.

We will be losing all we've worked (AND PAID REAL MONEY FOR - LOOKIN AT YOU, GUILD RENOWN POTS) for.

Unless I kill my friends.

[madmaxhunter]

What level is your guild?

If you can maintain above 70, then you really don't need to delete any guild members.

You don't get very much for guild levels above 70... It's much easier to decide between your "friends" (you have 187 friends?) and the tiny benefits above guild level 70.

Now if your guild is dropping back into the high 50s, and you're losing your +2 stat shrines... then yeah, you better start kicking people.

We get that Thrudh, easy to say "don't worry about it". This is a GAME. GET IT? Part of playing a game is ADVANCING. Stagnating is not fun. Besides, even if we don't care, as guild leaders we have a responsibility to follow the wants of our guildies.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I totally agree the decay system needs a complete over-haul.

[eris2323]

And yes - after you've played a long, long time, you end up with a lot of friends.

They're just easier to realize you've got them when you have to choose which ones to kill.

Even if they don't play daily. Even if they don't play monthly. Even if you haven't played with them in 6 months.

They're still my friends, and it really looks like I'm going to not only kill some of them, but place a limit on how active my friends can be.

I don't want to kill my friends. I don't want to punish people for their real life situations.

Why, why must I kill my friends? Why is there no place for a large, guild, with social players, casual players, and all the rest

[Thrudh]

We will not be able to retain our level above 70 for more than a couple of weeks.

Not with current renown drops.

We will be losing all we've worked (AND PAID REAL MONEY FOR - LOOKIN AT YOU, GUILD RENOWN POTS) for.

Unless I kill my friends.

Well the only thing you get between 63 and 70 is the Large Guild slots on items... You have to decide how much those are worth...

Think you can maintain a 63+?

You can also put them on your friends' list you know, and still group with them when they pop in...

[Thrudh]

Why, why must I kill my friends? Why is there no place for a large, guild, with social players, casual players, and all the rest

Heh... I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If being social and casual is your thing, drop the Large Guild slot perk, and keep your friends...

[eris2323]

Heh... I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If being social and casual is your thing, drop the Large Guild slot perk, and keep your friends...

I'm glad your choices are so easy - some of my other friends would like to still gain levels.

Instead of just being yourself, Thrudh, how about trying to do what I have to do.

Sympathize with the people you're about to kill. And see both sides of it.

It's depressing me. I know I 'don't have to have them in my guild'. I also 'don't have to play', I also 'don't have to spend money'.

Turbine is forcing me to change the way I want to play - and forcing me to kill my friends.

That's really all there is to it. I have to remove my casual friends from my guild in order to BREAK EVEN - I'll have to be even more stringent, and both kill more friends, AND put a limit to how often my friends go idle, in order to gain levels.

I do not like that. I am allowed to post my feelings on the matter.

[madmaxhunter]

Heh... I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If being social and casual is your thing, drop the Large Guild slot perk, and keep your friends...

Funny, I looked you up in MyDDO, no public characters, was looking to see what your guild level was.

[Thrudh]

Funny, I looked you up in MyDDO, no public characters, was looking to see what your guild level was.

mid 70s... not sure, since it doesn't matter past 70. We've pretty much stabilized around that number. We're a pretty casual guild too.

[madmaxhunter]

mid 70s... not sure, since it doesn't matter past 70. We've pretty much stabilized around that number. We're a pretty casual guild too.

Cool, good going, congrats.

No one needs or wants a larger ship, a non-TP planescaller or +5 exp shrine. Yep 70 should be all anyone needs.

You've made your point. Thank you for visiting.

[Thrudh]

I'm glad your choices are so easy - some of my other friends would like to still gain levels.

Why? You're never going to make 85 unless you get rid of ALL your casual guild members. You prepared to do that? Guild levels above 70 are pretty much meaningless. It's just a number

Turbine is forcing me to change the way I want to play - and forcing me to kill my friends.

That's really all there is to it. I have to remove my casual friends from my guild in order to BREAK EVEN - I'll have to be even more stringent, and both kill more friends, AND put a limit to how often my friends go idle, in order to gain levels.

I do not like that. I am allowed to post my feelings on the matter.

Sure, but you're not making your case stronger by using the phrase "kill my friends" over and over.

And you don't HAVE TO gain guild levels.

Tell you what though, I'd support them lowering the decay for guilds below 72... Make it easier for every type of guild to hit 70-71.

[Captain_Wizbang]

OP here's an online decay calculator.
http://filespace.amitykeepers.eu/Jontas/GRDCalc.html

From there, you can determine how much each active member should strive for.

If you are unable to maintain even the minimum, then trimming is in order.

[Thrudh]

Yep 70 should be all anyone needs.

70 gets you 97% of the benefits. That's all I'm saying... 63 gets you 95% of the benefits...

If you're truly a casual guild, I'd think being able to maintain around that level is pretty good... And not a hard choice.

[eris2323]

OP here's an online decay calculator.
http://filespace.amitykeepers.eu/Jontas/GRDCalc.html

From there, you can determine how much each active member should strive for.

If you are unable to maintain even the minimum, then trimming is in order.

I have my own tools; my own website to help our guildies (now in version 2.0!), as well as my own tracking system to count alternative players. I've put in a fair amount of working making up for the shortcomings in the guild system in-game!

Doesn't matter - the math still beats the casual player, and all large, social guilds have to make the same choice:

Remove casual players, or never, ever gain levels again.