Are rouges Redundant?

[MaximusParthas]

The artificer's weakness is their lack of evasion. The rogue's weakness is their terrible DPS against fortified enemies. Pick your poison or splash the former with the latter.

Rogues actually have a better chance than any other class at high end hits against fortified opponents. Why do you think they need threat reduction?
Feats like opportunist and fortification reduction abilities/items have more times when even the most boss boss has no fortification at all.

[MaximusParthas]

Nice! wish I could +1

My Rogue is an artist.

Killing monsters is her art.

She is a very tallented artist.

[Jendrak]

rogues can get traps that most arties have little or no chance at due to where the box his rogues can do a lot of damage ASSASINATE! rogues are fine

FTFY,

Its all about build, gear, knowledge, and skill. My rogue became my arti and trappping ability regardless of location is not an issue for me.

[arkonas]

Are rouges Redundant? Because Artificers have come out and well provided if they are built well, can out-class a rouge anytime. Rouges are in my mind weak and not good at melee or ranged now because artificers have essentially made them redundant and superfluous. A arti can self repair/heal and can cast as well as rock with crossbows. A rouge has to take the feat where it is just given to an artificer.

you know some makeup multi class into an arti so now they can shoot their makeup where ever they need to hit their targets.

honestly some rogues that are mechanics splash 6 arti for battle engineer. why not get the best of both worlds? im sorry both classes have their weakness and strength.

[Imatotalnoob]

I love these threads

to the OP
If U don't like them, don't play them.
Even my first life rogues out kill, out trap, out last
the rest of the party.

if any class is not working for U, you're doing it wrong.
You're same comment can be levelled at ranged rangers,
with arty ranged damage being so strong.

Cheers U troll

[Ranncore]

The only thing that makes Rogues redundant (and artificers) is that traps are so weak on any difficulty besides Elite that they can be walked through.
I seriously don't know why people running E-hard [insert quest here] bother looking for Clerics or Rogues.
The last time I ran an E-Hard Big Top, whoever got to the wheel first pulled it because the traps pose absolutely no threat, the rogue didn't bother disabling boxes because the time it takes to disable them isn't worth the XP it grants, and the only healing I did during the entire quest was my Aura. I did not cast a single spell to restore HP or use a single scroll.
Hey, at least I got to smite some stuff.
But if quests are going to be this easy Rogues and Clerics are going to be out of a job.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

The only thing that makes Rogues redundant (and artificers) is that traps are so weak on any difficulty besides Elite that they can be walked through.
I seriously don't know why people running E-hard [insert quest here] bother looking for Clerics or Rogues.
The last time I ran an E-Hard Big Top, whoever got to the wheel first pulled it because the traps pose absolutely no threat, the rogue didn't bother disabling boxes because the time it takes to disable them isn't worth the XP it grants, and the only healing I did during the entire quest was my Aura. I did not cast a single spell to restore HP or use a single scroll.
Hey, at least I got to smite some stuff.
But if quests are going to be this easy Rogues and Clerics are going to be out of a job.

Well, I've always been of the opinion that no class should be required to complete a dungeon.... so IMO most current traps in DDO should NOT be too deadly.

I say current traps because with just a little thought involved you can have deadly traps that do not prevent a quest from being completed without a Rogue.

Stop making the dungeons with traps that go across the entire pathway that has to be traversed to get to the end fight.
and start putting random traps in part of a hallway, or positioned so that they can hit people when they go off, but then can be gone around safely.

This will make Rogues (well...those who invest in Spot anyway. ) useful... ut not required.

I am all for deadly traps.
and majorly annoying traps.

that parties really wish they could detect and disable.

But I am very much against traps blocking quest advancement, so that a trapper is required... if you want to comlete the quest.

[Chai]

The only thing that makes Rogues redundant (and artificers) is that traps are so weak on any difficulty besides Elite that they can be walked through.
I seriously don't know why people running E-hard [insert quest here] bother looking for Clerics or Rogues.
The last time I ran an E-Hard Big Top, whoever got to the wheel first pulled it because the traps pose absolutely no threat, the rogue didn't bother disabling boxes because the time it takes to disable them isn't worth the XP it grants, and the only healing I did during the entire quest was my Aura. I did not cast a single spell to restore HP or use a single scroll.
Hey, at least I got to smite some stuff.
But if quests are going to be this easy Rogues and Clerics are going to be out of a job.

Its a choice between the lesser of two evils. The other side of the story is they could balance traps to always be lethal regardless of what dificulty we are on, and we always have to have a trapper in the group.

Most people the forumites are running epic hard with are overgeared for that difficulty and have high end quest knowledge. The majority of all players, who werent even playing ANY epics at all pre U14 are the people who are challenged by eHard. Anyone who was running epics regularly before U14 should not be using eHard as any kind of measuring stick.

As far as clerics - they will never be out of a job. Theres a huge gray area between "not absolutely necessary" and "dont bother rolling the class".

[Elaril]

Is this a mind trick thread to get rogues a buff? If so, forget I mentioned it.

[Shunlee123]

It is obvious that the OP is not familiar with playing a rogue (simply from the fact that he does not know how to spell the name of this class correctly).

Although the forum is a free speech area, one has to do some homework on his/her comments before posting it on the forum.

By the way, the OP does not even come back to response to the comments of the poster.

[Jay203]

i like how many ppl's heads the joke went over

[Zorth]

I once Disarmed a Trap by tinting a sleeping Kobold's cheeks with foundation and threw him into the trap and it blew up! Thus Disarming the trap. The tint of the cosmetic used was perfect.

[Brattyone]

To all of you who so sarcastically, creatively used *rouge* in your replies...thank you! It's been fun reading through them.

To the OP, it is clear that either you don't play a rogue or you really don't know how to play one. A well played rogue is a thing of beauty and very lethal. Perhaps you can find someone on your server who might be able to show you this.

[Therrias]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0711.html

[Badnade]

Ok, I just wanna put myself out there a bit...

For the LONGEST time, I spelled rogue as "rouge," and posted it this way often in another game I played.

For years.....

I NEVER got the sarcasm or jokes to be had at my expense..
Once I learned how to spell....

I couldent stop laughing.

Ive gone back and read all the "unhelpful" threads from that game, and really, some of the best thought up stuff.

Seems like all the best jokes I hear are always "inside" jokes from one game or another.

If youve never tossed the dice, you just dont get it.. but man is it funny.

Great stuff here too.

Thanks for getting me to smile at the end of a bad day.
+1 OP

[danielhrobbins]

Are rouges Redundant? Because Artificers have come out and well provided if they are built well, can out-class a rouge anytime. Rouges are in my mind weak and not good at melee or ranged now because artificers have essentially made them redundant and superfluous. A arti can self repair/heal and can cast as well as rock with crossbows. A rouge has to take the feat where it is just given to an artificer.

Errr, wrong. Wrong. And wrong.

You obviously haven't run with a good rogue before. Generally speaking, a well built and played rogue will often lead the kill count, out-dps the tank, self heal, toss resurrection scrolls and heal scrolls when the cleric is busy, and sneak past mobs to pick up your soulstone. Oh, and if you ask nicely, they might disable traps now and then, though most of the time they are having way too much fun killing stuff and would rather not stop to perform this petty function that too many people misconceive as a rogue's primary role.

[Tirisha]

I do not believe that any other class can provide as much DPS as a rogue aside from a mana dumping caster.

Artificers are miles behind rogues in damage assuming both the rogue and artificer are built well.

[MaximusParthas]

Errr, wrong. Wrong. And wrong.

You obviously haven't run with a good rogue before. Generally speaking, a well built and played rogue will often lead the kill count, out-dps the tank, self heal, toss resurrection scrolls and heal scrolls when the cleric is busy, and sneak past mobs to pick up your soulstone. Oh, and if you ask nicely, they might disable traps now and then, though most of the time they are having way too much fun killing stuff and would rather not stop to perform this petty function that too many people misconceive as a rogue's primary role.

Preach!

[Cinos]

I do not believe that any other class can provide as much DPS as a rogue aside from a mana dumping caster.

Artificers are miles behind rogues in damage assuming both the rogue and artificer are built well.

Let's not exaggerate now. Very situationally, yes, a rogue's going to be the best DPS. But this is only against mobs without fortification and only if they can avoid aggro. A barbarian is also going to almost match rogue DPS even with sneak attacks. (at the cost of not having anything else rogues have)

[sandypaws]

Let's not exaggerate now. Very situationally, yes, a rogue's going to be the best DPS. But this is only against mobs without fortification and only if they can avoid aggro. A barbarian is also going to almost match rogue DPS even with sneak attacks. (at the cost of not having anything else rogues have)

With improved deception, bluff, and a high attack rate, I find that aggro isn't really an issue anymore (Note: This is for regular quests, not raids where you probably don't want to be pulling a raid boss's attention away from the tank. Unless you're a rogue tank).
Regarding fort, fort is always a problem. But there are a number of skills that reduce fort, and in a well-balanced party it's possible many of those can be brought to bear (e.g. improved sunder for -10, insult for -10, improved destruction for -8, fvs proc (infrequent), monk dark dark dark finisher for -25 against cursable things). If your target is a construct or undead, you can get an additional -20 (mournlode equipment/blasting chime), and -30 from tier III wrack construct.

I'm still not quite seeing how devs are saying that fort can generally be reduced to 0, but it can definitely be significantly reduced. Plus, precision even lets you bypass it, supposedly 25% of the time? Or so forums seem to say. The tooltip on the feat itself seems to only indicate a +5% attack increase.