objection to streaks

[trapmana]

in the past few months i have seen ongoing reduction in the number of non streak based groups most of these contain player who are under equipped or running on low stats due to being 1st or 2nd lifers.

but then i cant blame them for trying to get in to elites as they really have little other option.
They ether run on elite or they don't get to play.

The bonuses from streaks are now making up so much of the exp reward that the range of players viable for exp reasons has been narrowed to 2 lv's this is particularly frustrating as you will now typically break the level range of a raid during the flagging process (yes im aware levels can be held back but doing so then means your not meeting the level range for other quests)

im finding this damaging to the lfg system as the previously acceptable level range 3 above or below for a total of 6 it is now a range of 2.

i would like to suggests the following ideas to try and improve this situation.

make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

allow players to freeze there streak so that they can take part in guild raids and quests like devils assault.

allow players to disable exp rewards they by allowing loot or fun runs with guild members.

allow players to down level them selves so that if your to high you can reduce your level and still get to play with your guild members.

have the streak apply to any first time content run rather than specific mode settings (this would help retain the main benefit the streak system has brought in varying the quests run)

make it so first life characters (or maby first ever toons) can get bravery bonus on normal (I do not want to run elite with people who have never done a quest at all ever)

make its a flat bonus for first time ever elite instead of a accruing streak (yes people are that fussed about it even thou its only 5 quests to max it.

i believe if some thing is not done then new players are going to be put off and that the lfg system will continue to be stagnant.

[Kylstrem]

If there are that many people who want to run non-elite streaks, then I would imagine if those people started an LFM for that type of group, they would fill up relatively fast.

Otherwise, it sounds like too many people just don't want to create their own LFMs.

[trapmana]

not the case i have encountered many instanced when elite isnt wanted but is forced on player due to the current streak culture.

and no people wont risk losing a streak to run a non elite even if they would quite like to i can under stand this from a numerical point of view but its damaging to lfg and to guild runs etc

from a logical point of view some one mite not want to run elite due to a lack of a healer / trapper there for instead of running normal / hard as would pre streak it dose not go ahead at all.

this has lead to lots of groups trying to for over a long period of time with out success.
(setting the party to find normal's or hard's doesn't help as elite streakers would be penalized for doing them there for wont consider it i am aware of many players who pre streak being a lot more relaxed about what content and settings where played i can under stand why they think in this fashion as they are numerically rewarded for doing so how every the reduction in quest running is not a good thing for any one)

[shadereaper33]

Also, keep in mind that there are some players, like myself, who find normal/hard generally easy enough to solo that joining a pug isn't worth the headache. with regards to your various suggestions:

1- defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus
2- you can already do this as long as someone in the party is 3+ levels over the quest level. thus, anyone level 9 or higher would "freeze" the BB for everyone in devil assault, regardless of quest difficulty
3- um, I just can't see how that would ever be used
4- this could be abused to run lower level quests that give significantly better xp (von3/shadowcrypt)
5- not sure what you are getting at with this one
6- again, this defeats the purpose of the bravery bonus
7- there is already a flat bonus for doing a quest for the first time on elite, the BB is supposed to be a seperate bonus on top of that.

As far as your concerns go, during my playtime on my server, the LFM panel is quite full. Are a lot of them BB streaks? probably. But nothing stops a new player from joining, saying "hey, im new, but I will try to learn" and then having fun learning how to do the quest on elite.

[Saravis]

I was going to come in here and say /not signed, sick of all these BB whiners, etc, etc. However, you've at least shown the decency to actually provide suggestions, rather than just whine and rant and not provide any sort of compromise to those of us who like BB. I can respect that.

However

/not signed

Reason boils down to simply that your suggestions prevents BB from being a bravery bonus.
Keep it up though, you may yet come up with a more adequate suggestion to the system.

[trapmana]

been standing in a lfg for tear for 2 hours it has not run.the party refuses to try hard with mercs due to bb/ streaks there for its not going to run this isnt the frist time i have encountered this and im sick of it.

i have seen new played stop playing due to being forced in to content there is no way there character can handle (majorly rouges due to ludicrously high dcs on elite traps for first lifers)

cant do normal due to streaks
cant do hard due to streaks
cant do elite due to a first life trapper / healer / tank who just doesn't have the equipment or base stat points.

this isn't a new situation it happens at all levels and has lead me on occasion to go an entire week with out being inside a single quest. that just isnt fun

regarding signing i think it displays my characters name on the left of my post just i case it doesn't its Trapmana

the reason people are whinging is there is a problem ignoring it wont fix it

how about if your toon could be down leveled but received exp equivalent to its actual level this would still allow you to at east get in a a quest

[N1ko]

Devils assault does not have any influence on one's bravery bonus, thus you are free to run it with your guild/friends if you are wanting to.

[goodspeed]

lol your in a group for tear? One on elite, forget those ops. All it takes is one lagger or jumpless person to miss the falls and then the whole city lights up as they attempt to flee. Or drown themselves.

I think the only place you really need a trapper is gwylands stand, delera part 1 and 4. (Not really one if you have the hp to take a double hit of ice with some reflex) And a couple others.

But tear is usually always a headache with a pug because they are all nubs. The time you waste on those ops you could of ran the thing twice. Elite then hard. Then usually theirs the people that have a fit. OMG no healz!! OMG NO Full Grpz?

Useless baggage the lot of em. Only good for 10% hit to xp.

Theirs not even a twink factor in there. From scratch, no pots, no real gear, just a training dummy ship buff and a starter great axe with a hire and I soloed it. As a fighter. Not a mage, not a healer, not some specialist arti, or ranging ranger. A true blue, blow for blow handicapped low level melee.

[Ertay]

I can relate to that somewhat. From earlier dev statements, streaks seemed to be designed to encourage going elite, which they thought would be somewhat rare and restricted to mostly TRs and their alts. Now though, that running elite pretty much became standard, it feels more like punishment to break the streak instead.

Thus, it creates a situation where newer players who can't find a group feel like they can't do anything because they fear breaking their streaks. They could of course always pick it up again, but the feeling of wasting potential hurts somewhat, and I can accept it might be a bit too much.

On the other hand, streaks are nice for the TR folks, who need every bit of xp they can get, even more so on the higher levels. Maybe a middle ground solution would work: When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. Optionally, VIPs could get a slight bonus in a similar way, maybe have their counter decrease only from the second run on.

[dunklezhan]

I... actually agree with the OPs main point. And I say this as someone who levels s l o w l y and needs all the XP help he can get.

Also I like the concept of bravery bonuses and streaks very much. I think perhaps the max streak bonus just ought to be reduced by maybe half so it's just not that big a deal to lose them*, and I certainly think it shouldn't count for raids at all. No-one runs raids for XP, that's not the point of them.

*in truth it isn't that big a deal to lose them. Before they were around you just ran NNNNNNHE anyway if you cared that much right?

[dragons1ayer74]

... Maybe a middle ground solution would work: When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. Optionally, VIPs could get a slight bonus in a similar way, maybe have their counter decrease only from the second run on.

+1 Great Idea!

[Qhualor]

elite BB has really made questing... um.. interesting. sometimes you do find that group that works well together, but often you find 1, 2, 3 players in the group who are clearly not ready for that difficulty. the streak is so good that people just wont try to complete on *gasp*hard or *gasp gasp* normal.

its really not that hard to pick up elite streak again. you could even do worst xp quests to get it back and save the good xp quests for when you get the elite BB again. also, if you work your xp farming right like im doing, you can get the elite streak doing quests 2 levels below your level. in other words, im currently 11 and im doing elite level 9 quests. when im 12, ill do elite level 10 quests. this way im not so stuck in the mid level range and the quests arent overly difficult for me.

i dont know what an alternative would be to streaks easier, but i like the idea of freezing your streak.

[dunklezhan]

When you'd break your streak under the current system, make it just decrease by 1 on both counters instead. .

Don't think this goes quite far enough. When you have 50 elite streak total, taking that to 49 provides no penalty. It should simply reduce your 'sequential streak count' by one instead.

You max out at what, 10 elites in a row or something for your 50% bonus? Regardless of what your streak total is, if doing a quest on normal all of a sudden makes you count as if you'd only done 9 sequential, you could earn it back with one quest at 45% elite bonus after you finish your normal. And if you do a couple of normals in a night with a guildie or something, you've still not got to go too far to catch back up.

Of course, this might be exactly what you meant. But it could've been read to mean reduces your elite streak total by 1, taking you from 100 to 99, resulting in no change to the XP bonus. Which means it may as well be no penalty at all.

[trapmana]

1-make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus.

i dont see how as most tr's have done there quests a million times in fact its only really bravery for first life or first ever toons and they just can not handle the elite setting

2-allow players to freeze there streak so that they can take part in guild raids and quests like devils assault.

you can already do this as long as someone in the party is 3+ levels over the quest level. thus, anyone level 9 or higher would "freeze" the BB for everyone in devil assault, regardless of quest difficulty

i meant more as in have a guild ship crew man who can lock your exp/streak allowing you to help out new or struggling members with out the pugs there riding with freaking out about loss of bb or screwing your self over

3-allow players to disable exp rewards they by allowing loot or fun runs with guild members.

um, I just can't see how that would ever be used

pretty much the same as number 2 think of it as being like recalling out of shroud before the end chest but with out the risk that some one just walks up and opens it

4-allow players to down level them selves so that if your to high you can reduce your level and still get to play with your guild members.

this could be abused to run lower level quests that give significantly better xp (von3/shadowcrypt)

make it so you get exp as if your of your original level this still stops you screwing over the rest of the party


5-have the streak apply to any first time content run rather than specific mode settings (this would help retain the main benefit the streak system has brought in varying the quests run)

not sure what you are getting at with this one

as in if you have never ever run a quest you get the bonus regardless of mode this would still encourage quest variation. if you repeatedly do new quests rather than grinding you get the bonus regardless of setting (sorry but i don't see how a elite run is more difficult for a 3rd lifer with green steel than is is for a first lifer with random gear)

6-make it so first life characters (or maby first ever toons) can get bravery bonus on normal (I do not want to run elite with people who have never done a quest at all ever)

again, this defeats the purpose of the bravery bonus

again is it really a bravery bonus atm i find putting on green steel at lv 12 make things a lot easier if it really is a bravery bonus maybe it should be 1st life only as currently i believe its really a how cant we stop it taking 5 grinding repeats of the same old quests for a tr to level up bonus. at which point i wish to suggest there are better ways of doing this such as maybe releasing the new content between levels 14 and 20 rather than this how many times can u use a d100 system that is the post lv 20 set up (but that's getting off topic)

7-make its a flat bonus for first time ever elite instead of a accruing streak (yes people are that fussed about it even thou its only 5 quests to max it1- defeats the whole purpose of the bravery bonus.

there is already a flat bonus for doing a quest for the first time on elite, the BB is supposed to be a seperate bonus on top of that.

if not for a reason already mentioned why is it needed then its not a matter of being brave when your massively over geared.

8-i dont see how as most tr's have done there quests a million times in fact its only really bravery for first life or first ever toons and they just can not handle the elite setting

if the toon has 500 hp toon dose not die to traps/ disintegrates evocations etc is basically unchallenged by some things in an elite

if i have 200 hp the toon (pritty typical for a first lifer) how can can it survive every other spell/ attack /effect or trap dealing more damage than its total hp and dc's being set well beyond numbers they can actually obtain at there level with out out side help from a player acting as there patron.

[trapmana]

i like the idea of a tick toking counter but from the current culture unless it counted up to 12 but capped out at 10 then you wouldn't get any normals or hards the people dont self nerf if they can avoid it even by as little as 5 % just look at the dedication to usage of ship exp buffs and voices etc

[Heladron]

but then i cant blame them for trying to get in to elites as they really have little other option.
They ether run on elite or they don't get to play.

There is another option and that is put up an LFM for a lesser level. There are still plenty of people running normal as far as I can tell. I'm always asking if they are running elite and if they say no I just put up an LFM or go in on elite by myself.

i would like to suggests the following ideas to try and improve this situation.

make it so that the bb bonus is awarded the first time the quest is completed on elite regardless of if it has been previously been done on normal or hard.

Not sure that is very good as I think part of the point of the bravery bonus is to challenge yourself and earn a reward for doing so. It's not very rewarding if I can go in and run elite later for a huge bonus.

This is really about what players currently find valuable and right now players find more value it running first time elite. Your renown, level and everything goes up faster and you are rewarded greatly for taking big risks. It seems like a perfect system. Great risk yields big reward and little risk yields little reward.

[Purgatorii]

My opinion is how about we just leave the whole streak system exactly the way it is?

People aren't unable to find people willing to run Hards and Norms, they're just not finding LFMs for them already up.

Throw up a Hard or Norm LFM and see if you don't get some interest.

Us elite streakers join norm/hard LFM all the time (after we've done it once on elite). Hard is usually the best XP farm difficulty (judging time spent vs xp received).

The point here is that people have got to get over this irrational desire to NOT be the leader of the party. Even if you don't know the quest you can still be the LFM manager.

[teh_meh]

bravery bonus, overall, is a major improvement to the game. yes, it has caused some unfortunate fallout.

I just solo-hard-streak to cap but if I did pug it out, my lfm would go a little something like this:

running on hard. What Justin Beiber is thinking about RIGHT NOW concerns me more that your elite streak.

[goodspeed]

Bah forget that decrease stuff. I say we change bravery bonus altogether and only allow it on elite difficulty! Or wen entering the quest the first time choose what diff you want your brave bonus to count for, and then the others won't add it.

Go it, select elite, then play hard and streak saved. Of course this would probably promote more soloing as if I didn't need some poor sucker with 2 or more wings above em to open elite, I'd just farm the quest from norm up collecting my bonus at the 3 time end.

[Skavenaps]

been standing in a lfg for tear for 2 hours it has not run.

sorry to say that,and dont mean to be personal

only a fool wait 2 hours to do a sad quest. maybe i could imagine waiting for it at lvl 25 for a raid.. but at low level for tear? if cant find a group to do 1 dungeon.. jump to another and try later. if you are wasting 2 hours of your time.. well its really no BB's fault.