TR build assistance

[Paroon]

So this will be my first time TRing, and I'm really excited! However, I want to make sure the build is sound before doing it.

I feel I've run into a bit of a snag, as I decided to TR as a half orc instead of sticking with dwarf. The bonus feats I saw just seem to trump everything as far as damage goes.

I'm a VIP, and this will be a 34 point build, and I've included the fact I have a +4 tome on each stat (so +1 at lvl 3, +2 at lvl 7, +3 at lvl 11, and +4 at lvl 15, as per the current info I have on how tomes work with reincarnation)

I'm sticking with thf, greataxes, because they're just so shiny, and I have a lit2 greensteel that makes me smile each time it goes smash with its lightning rod

However, onto the build! If you have any critiques or advice, please let me know. But bare in mind I'm looking for info, not "This is wrong, do this instead", I want to know the why behind it!

I chose not to get anything but the cleave/greater cleave as I've found out, with the epic destiny, lay waste and momentum swing, I'm just not using anything else, I may in the future based on what they do with epic destinies, but for now, I don't see them worthwhile.

Also decided to chase down kensei once again, but also wanted to take haste boost, which means I have two different boosts now. I'm curious if they stack, or if I can only use one at a time, shall have to see soon enough.

I voted against taking the past life ability, it just seemed useless, and from everything I read on the forums, seems that may be more correct than not, not sure if this will be true with all past lives though.

And now, the build!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
DDO Character Planner Home Page

TR1 Pure Fighter
Level 20 Lawful Good Half-Orc Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 446
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 17
Reflex: 7
Will: 7

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             20                 29                   34
Dexterity             9                 13                   13
Constitution         17                 21                   21
Intelligence          9                 13                   13
Wisdom                9                 13                   13
Charisma              6                 10                   10

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 2
+1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 2
+1 Tome of Constitution used at level 2
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+1 Tome of Wisdom used at level 2
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 2
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 6
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 6
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 6
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 6
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 6
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 10
+3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 10
+3 Tome of Constitution used at level 10
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Wisdom used at level 10
+3 Tome of Charisma used at level 10
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 14
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 14
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 14
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 14
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 14
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 14

                  Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               0                 12                   12
Bluff                -2                  0                    3
Concentration         3                  5                    8
Diplomacy            -2                  0                    3
Disable Device       n/a                n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                  0                    0
Heal                 -1                  1                    1
Hide                 -1                  1                    1
Intimidate           -2                  0                    3
Jump                  7                 17                   17
Listen               -1                  1                    1
Move Silently        -1                  1                    1
Open Lock            n/a                n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                  1                    1
Search               -1                  1                    1
Spot                 -1                  1                    1
Swim                  5                 12                   12
Tumble               n/a                 2                    2
Use Magic Device     n/a                11                   11

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Critical
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Cleave
Feat: (Selected) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack II
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery II
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage II


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Flanking Mastery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude III


Level 17 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Greataxe Specialization II
Enhancement: Orcish Power Attack III


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Sunder
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Kensei Greataxe Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Brutal Throw
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV

Appreciate the info you may have in advance! I look forward to your insight!


EDIT: I decided I didn't like where the HP stood, and finally came to the conclusion I can't effectively take kensei AND haste boost, so decided to just go with kensei instead. Gained 60 base hp bringing it from 366 to 426, a much better number as far as I see it (please know this number is with no equipment or stat increases beyond the +3 tome, so obviously it will be higher than that.

EDIT 2: Learned that if I put the tomes a lvl early on the planner, it shows up properly, so adjusted that. Also changed points up to give myself a higher UMD, maybe I can be a bit more self sufficient now, as always any help is appreciated!

EDIT 3: Got rid of fighter crit accuracy IV, didn't even notice I put it in there. Squeezed out another 10 hp, bringing the total before equipment/buffs to 436.

EDIT 4: Another group of changes. Got rid of Orcish Fury II and III, after I thought on them, I couldn't see them being useful at 25/10% hp...the +1/+2 str modifier just doesn't sound beneficial for 1 or 2 hits before I'm back up or dead. Got another 10 hp out of it though, so now at 446, and took Fighter Flanking Master I at lvl 15, it isn't much, but was the best choices for what was left over for the 2 AP I had floating.

EDIT 5: Got my hands on the +4 tomes, added +1 to each stat at lvl 14 to reflect this (stat hits on lvl 15)

Thanks again ^^

[Paroon]

Going to take the 121 glances but lack of comments so far as a good sign ^-^ Still have another 10 shrouds to go before I complete, but we shall see ^-^

[Paroon]

Another readjustment to the build, now with a few extra skill points, so decided to give myself some UMD goodness, get +10 at lvl 20, but with a nice umd item should be able to use most thingies to make myself more self sufficient

[Paroon]

Figured I'd also add the equipment I'm using/intend to be using.

I know this may not be the "best endgame equipment", but it is not for endgame, it's for TRing, and since I'm TRing 3 times as a fighter, and then 3 times as a barbarian, hoping for multi-functionality here, as well as as early a use as I can get.


ring 1 - Calitomes' Ring
ring 2 - Kyosho's Ring
goggles - Greensteel goggles (neg, neg, neg, all immunities + deathblock) negII
armor - UNDECIDED (right now using whatever drops, hoping for a nice dragontouched, but the drops on the pieces for the stats I want are annoying, so HOPING for marilith chain as next in line)
bracers - Tharne's Bracers
boots - Cannith Boots of Propulsion
gloves - Gloves of Titan's grip
waist - Knost's Belt
cloak - Phiarlon Mirror cloak
trinket - Litany of the dead
necklace- Finger Necklace
helm - Minos Legens

Ends up giving me con, str, dex, char, and wis +6, armor bonus +6, spell res (17), greater false life, and deathblock

As far as weapons:

Greensteel lit2 (tier 3)
carnifex
Antique Greataxe

I have others for those random situations (ie: everbright greataxe), but those three seem to be the most useful

As far as clickies...I don't have any yet, having trouble trying to get them (ransacked planar gird chest with no luck), I have an invisi clickie, but it's lvl 18, defeating it's purpose, still looking! Am going after the Stave of the seer (+5 UMD), so hoping to get some clickie uses

Any opinions would be awesome! I've got a few low level pieces of gear (IE: FF ring for lvl 3, some starter +2 str gear, etc), but could always take some advice as well, for equip or for the build!

Thanks again!

[Kinerd]

You don't need Critical Accuracy 4 for Kensei, therefore you don't need Critical Accuracy 4. Voila, Haste Boost!

You cannot use Fighter Haste Boost at the same time as Fighter Attack Boost, if that's what you mean, but FAB is junk anyway. You can't use it at the same time as Epic-thingy Haste Boost either, but you can spend the points/twist on something more useful. If you need more AP, the Great Weapon Aptitudes and Furies are where I would start whittling.

If all you are concerned with is damage as a THF, half-orc makes sense. For everything outside of raiding, though, you would really help yourself out with some heal amp or dodge chance or both. Finally, triple negatives had a lot of steam taken out of them with the disease/poison changes. You can still set your watch by deathblock, but there are other ways to get deathblock.

It's possible you will get practically no benefit out of further fighter or barbarian TRs. Just something to keep in mind.

[Paroon]

You don't need Critical Accuracy 4 for Kensei, therefore you don't need Critical Accuracy 4. Voila, Haste Boost!

You cannot use Fighter Haste Boost at the same time as Fighter Attack Boost, if that's what you mean, but FAB is junk anyway. You can't use it at the same time as Epic-thingy Haste Boost either, but you can spend the points/twist on something more useful. If you need more AP, the Great Weapon Aptitudes and Furies are where I would start whittling.

If all you are concerned with is damage as a THF, half-orc makes sense. For everything outside of raiding, though, you would really help yourself out with some heal amp or dodge chance or both. Finally, triple negatives had a lot of steam taken out of them with the disease/poison changes. You can still set your watch by deathblock, but there are other ways to get deathblock.

It's possible you will get practically no benefit out of further fighter or barbarian TRs. Just something to keep in mind.

I didn't even notice I put that in there, thanks! Yea, I agree, IV is absolutely wasted.

Not looking to use both action boosts at once, just looking for full kensei III with a nice haste boost > Sadly, even after taking it out, I couldn't find a way to put the haste boost in and it be worthwhile. I did however manage to squeeze an additional 10 HP out of this build bringing the total to 436 (before any equipment/buffs), so am rather pleased with that. I also switched improved sunder and brutal throw around, I figured improved sunder will be more useful at lvl 18 than brutal throw would (I really wish I could get rid of that and put something more useful in it's place, but I can't seem to find a better arrangement for this build)

Editing my build post after I submit this one, thanks again!

[Paroon]

Well, took a long, LONG hiatus, about 6-8months or so. Just got bored with no one to play with. Am back in full swing now! Have a friend that's rolled a rogue that I'm running with, am having a blast!

Anyway, got my hands on the +3 to +4 tomes, what's that you say? Discounted + coupon + built up turbine points from subscription? Oh alright, fine!

Didn't do much to be honest, put everything up at an odd number (cept charisma, brought it to an even, woot!) by max level, but not necessarily bad if I get my grubby little paws on the +5 bonus items!) Shall have to see.

Thanks to all those that did help with this build! Please keep in mind I do intend TRing again as a fighter (going for 3 past life feats before moving onto barbarian), so if you see any adjustments you'd recommend, feel free to comment and let me know why! Remember, my challenge to myself is the class must be pure and use the greataxe goodness! (especially since I'm swinging away with a lit2 greataxe).

[Phemt81]

Thanks to all those that did help with this build! Please keep in mind I do intend TRing again as a fighter (going for 3 past life feats before moving onto barbarian)

Why going fighter from fighter? I am sure you would enjoy a lot better an barbarian Horc for next life, and then maybe go back to fighter if you choose...

Just asking though, your character, your call

[Paroon]

Why going fighter from fighter? I am sure you would enjoy a lot better an barbarian Horc for next life, and then maybe go back to fighter if you choose...

Just asking though, your character, your call

Because I wish to TR each class 3 times (max possible bonus for passive past life bonus). But I wish to do so as a pure class. Just the completionist in me more than anything, I know some classes actually are gimped a little by being pure class, but the idea sounds fun, and so far it hasn't been a problem at all ^^

Going barbarian as second set of 3 because all the gear will be exactly the same, debating paladin after that, but still not 100% sure, will see when I get there

[Phemt81]

Because I wish to TR each class 3 times (max possible bonus for passive past life bonus). But I wish to do so as a pure class. Just the completionist in me more than anything

You know you need only one passive past life feat to get completionist, right?
And you get the past life even if you multiclass; the class with higher levels decides which class feat you get.

[Paroon]

You know you need only one passive past life feat to get completionist, right?
And you get the past life even if you multiclass; the class with higher levels decides which class feat you get.

Yes, yes, and yes.

However, as I said, it's what I want to do ^^ And instead of a +1 increase, it will be a +3 increase, to everything that increases. No, fighter isn't the best one, not arguing that, but I simply wish to do so ^^ I don't mind the leveling, especially now that I have a friend playing with me, who wants to do the TR game as well (albeit she doesn't mind multiclassing, which is fine).

And I like to single class, at least for now anyway, has been fun for me so far, and first life of fighter was awesome fun, and it put out some reasonably nice dps! Even more so with the epic destiny.

But I digress. To your original question, yes, I know I only need 1 of each past life, but I WANT to go for three ^^

[Phemt81]

Cool! Just wanted to be sure you had all the needed informations.

Have fun then!!!

[Lauf]

I would get the cleave and great cleave as soon as possible, putting off the two handed fighting feats for later on.

also, be sure to get the weapon focus / specialization feats in a timely fashion, as they are required for the kensai enhancements.


therefore, my suggestion for feat order is:
Power attack (1)
Cleave(1)
Weapon focus (2)
Toughness(3)
Great Cleave (4)
Weapon Specialization (6)
Two Handed Fighting (6)
Improved Critical (8)
Toughness(9)
Greater Weapon Focus (10)
Power Critical (12)
Greater Weapon Specialization (12)
Improved Two Handed Fighting (14)
Greater Two Handed Fighting (15)
Superior Weapon Focus (16)
Toughness(18)
Improved Sunder (18)
Brutal Throw (20)

Keep in mind that brutal throw is a "weak" feat, and you might be better off picking up something different instead.

[Paroon]

I would get the cleave and great cleave as soon as possible, putting off the two handed fighting feats for later on.

also, be sure to get the weapon focus / specialization feats in a timely fashion, as they are required for the kensai enhancements.


therefore, my suggestion for feat order is:
Power attack (1)
Cleave(1)
Weapon focus (2)
Toughness(3)
Great Cleave (4)
Weapon Specialization (6)
Two Handed Fighting (6)
Improved Critical (8)
Toughness(9)
Greater Weapon Focus (10)
Power Critical (12)
Greater Weapon Specialization (12)
Improved Two Handed Fighting (14)
Greater Two Handed Fighting (15)
Superior Weapon Focus (16)
Toughness(18)
Improved Sunder (18)
Brutal Throw (20)

Keep in mind that brutal throw is a "weak" feat, and you might be better off picking up something different instead.

Currently at work so unable to compare yours to mine efficiently (have to scroll up and down, not fun), but will look back. I think I was trying to take cleave earlier, but something was stopping me, not sure what so need to double check, could be wrong.

As far as brutal throw goes...yea, it's a super weak feat, especially since I NEVER use thrown weapons unless soloing or bored, but there just wasn't much usefulness at that point. Will have to re-read through the stats though to verify this, and shall do so tonight when I get home.

Thank you though for that input!

[Paroon]

@Lauf

After spending more time than I thought I would tinkering with the build, I come to find out...I have no clue why I took them in the order I did, apparently I wasn't paying attention to the order at which I needed which feats. It seems come U17 this will be moot...but yea, you are absolutely correct, the feat order I took is not the best order.

I am currently lvl 12, so not much I can do to adjust at this point (because I'm not using my turbine points to buy hearts of wood to redo it), but when I take my next TR of fighter, I will be using yours. Thank you very much for your help there ^-^

[Lauf]

happy to help