Acrobat build with monk & druid...how much monk is enough?

[Failedlegend]

Lawful Neutral Human Rogue13/Monk6/Druid1

Str 16 +3 tome + 4 Lvls = 23
Dex 16+ 3 tome + 1 Lvls +1 Epic Lvl = 21
Con 14
Int 14 (will likely use +2 and +4 as soon as ML is met)
Wis 8 +2 Water Stance + 1 Item = 11 (Enough to cast druid spells, later replaced by Tome)
Cha 8

Skills: Balance, Diplo,Bluff, Search, Disable Device, UMD, Concen, Spot, OL

Level Order: Rogue1, Monk2, Druid3, Rogue4-8, Monk 9-13, Rogue 14-20

Feats
1 Power Attack, Cleave
2 Toughness(M)
3 Stunning Blow
6 Combat Expertise
9 Great Cleave, Improved Trip(M)
10 Path of Inevitable Dominion (M)
12 Improved Feint
13 Dodge (M)
15 IC: Bludgeon
17 Improved Evasion (R)
18 Improved Sunder
20 Opportunist (R)
ED: Legendary Dreadnought (Twists: Dance with Flowers,Grim Precision,Running with the Wind)
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Critical

[shadereaper33]

Personally, I am going to TR my acrobat into a 13/6/1 rogue/monk/druid. gets shil-whatever, 20% total dodge chance, 25% incorp from ninja 1, 20% perma blur from GS, and I will easily have 60+ AC, so a fair amount of damage mitigation and a good amount of DPS. Probably going to go human for versatility and healing amp.

[unbongwah]

Last time I checked, Imp Feint can't be taken as a feat when leveling up, but it did get fixed in the latest patch (for those who already have it); so at some point CE+IF will be possible again. The idea bandied around in some of these threads: Imp Feint -> Cleave/GC for sneak atks vs mobs; plus you want C/GC to get Overwhelming Crit at epic lvls (once it's fixed). The tough part is you also want base DEX 21 to add Imp Sneak Atk if you can, which puts a lot of strain on a first-life build.

[Failedlegend]

So this character requires

23 Base Str
21 Base Dex
13 Base Int
Decent Con and Wis
Cha Dumped

Is this even possible??

Than feats...well with human and 1 monk level I have 9 so

1 THF
2 Stunning Blow
3 Toughness
4 Cleave
5 Power Attack
6 Great Cleave
7 ITHF
8 IC: Bludgeon
9 GTHF

Thats still not enough...I'd still need WF:Bludgeon and Combat Expertise....so I guess 13Rogue/6Monk/1Druid is pretty much locked in with Monk levels being taking so the extra feats line up.

Now how to work out the stats....assuming +3 tomes by epic for Str and Dex....+2 tome early for Int...so 11 int to start and +5 Lvl ups.

This is the only way I can think of

Str 16 + 3 tome + 4 Lvls = 23
Dex 17+ 3 tome + 1 Lvls = 21
Con 12
Int 11+ 2 tome = 13 (if +3 tome get some extra skill points)
Wis 10
Cha 8

Than with Rogue13/Monk6/Druid1 I gain 2 more feats (monk 2 and 6) so shuffle some feats around and add in Combat Expertise and Improved Feint....wait I STILL don't have WF:Bludgeon....UGGHHHH!!!!

I guess I could drop toughness....wait nvm I don't even have the pre-reqs for NS yet...again I ask is this possible...should I give up on improved feint...does that make C/GC pointless...what does IF do that bluff the skill doesn't?

[unbongwah]

First off, the builds I've thought about are rogue 13 / monk 6 / druid 1; so that gets you 2 more feats. Second, WIS can be dumped; the extra AC isn't worth the build pts, IMHO. Third, the THF feats are nice but not necessary for this particular build, since you will (in theory) be relying on sneak atks procing from Cleaves, rather than glancing blows.

So we're talking 12 feats (7 base + 3 monk + 2 epic feats): the PA/Cleave/GC chain, CE & IF, WF/IC/OC:Blunt, and ISA, with three feats left (I'd take Toughness, Dodge for Ninja pre-req, and either Stunning Blow or Imp Sunder - going human would let you take both).

This is all theory-crafting until Imp Feint is put back into the game (if it hasn't already); and we're still talking a total flavor build regardless. Still, might make for a fun & novel change of pace.

[Failedlegend]

First off, the builds I've thought about are rogue 13 / monk 6 / druid 1; so that gets you 2 more feats. Second, WIS can be dumped; the extra AC isn't worth the build pts, IMHO. Third, the THF feats are nice but not necessary for this particular build, since you will (in theory) be relying on sneak atks procing from Cleaves, rather than glancing blows.

So we're talking 12 feats (7 base + 3 monk + 2 epic feats): the PA/Cleave/GC chain, CE & IF, WF/IC/OC:Blunt, and ISA, with three feats left (I'd take Toughness, Dodge for Ninja pre-req, and either Stunning Blow or Imp Sunder - going human would let you take both).

This is all theory-crafting until Imp Feint is put back into the game (if it hasn't already); and we're still talking a total flavor build regardless. Still, might make for a fun & novel change of pace.

Hmmmm...yeah I guess dumping Wis and the THF line is the best bet...never though of dropping your weapon line i've always just viewed it as feat tax...An Auto-Take.

Wait IF was removed...was it broken...I've never even looked at the feat before now...if it is and its supposed to be coming back I guess I could just take SF:UMD or something easy to swap out until It comes back...also what makes it better than just plain bluffing?...is it an AOE bluff? actually on that note is bluff the skill single target?

I'll most definately go Human in this case I really like the idea of having various tactic abilities.

As for stats do you focus on Dex and use Nat Gann/Breeze or do you focus on Str (I'm definately think Str especially with the 23 Str pre-req)


So lets see (Work in progress)

Lawful Neutral Human Rogue13/Monk6/Druid1 (will likely go Shadowdancer ED)

Str 16 + 3 tome + 4 Lvls = 23
Dex 17+ 3 tome + 1 Lvls = 21
Con 14
Int 11+ 2 tome = 13 (will likely use +1,+2 and +3 as soon as ML is met)
Wis 8
Cha 8

Skills: Sneak Stuff, Trap Skills, UMD, Concentration??, than w/e

Level Order: WIP but will probably be Rogue 1, Monk 2, Druid 3, Rogue 4 - 8, Monk 9 - 13, Rogue 14 - 20

Normal Feats

1 Power Attack,Cleave
3 Improved Sunder
6 Stunning Blow
9 Improved Feint
12 Great Cleave
15 IC: Bludgeon
18 WF: Bludgeon

Monk Feats (order unsure...will figure out better when I get home)

2 Toughness
9 Combat Expertise
13 Dodge

Rogue Feats

16 Improved Evasion
20 Opportunist

Epic Feats

1 Improved Sneak Attack
2 Overwhelming Critical

[Sylvenon]

In my experience, Stunning Blow is not useful in high level content, as the DC is just too difficult to get high enough to land reliably in epic content (Stunning Fist is the only reliable melee stunner I usually see used in epics).

Also, you are missing Precision, which is a fantastic feat and stance to stay in almost 100% of the time now, as the dmg penalty has been removed, and it offers +5% to hit and bypasses 25% fortification 100% of the time (no disclaimer stating that some mobs are immune). This makes Improved Sunder a little less attractive.

[unbongwah]

Also, you are missing Precision, which is a fantastic feat and stance to stay in almost 100% of the time now, as the dmg penalty has been removed, and it offers +5% to hit and bypasses 25% fortification 100% of the time (no disclaimer stating that some mobs are immune). This makes Improved Sunder a little less attractive.

Why make it either-or? This build requires the PA/Cleave/GC chain anyway for Overwhelming Crit; if you can spare the feats for it, you can use Precision + Imp Sunder when appropriate for -35% fortification. IS also provides access to Sundering Swing.

I tried Imp Feint a while back...I have NO clue what the purpose is of this feat.

If it's working right (finally), Imp Feint Bluffs multiple enemies in a frontal arc. And since sneak atks can proc on Cleaves (but not on glancing blows), the idea is to use Imp Feint on a mob, then follow it up with Cleave/GC atks to sneak-atk the lot. Unfortunately, the last time I checked you can't take Imp Feint in-game while leveling, so I can't test out any build ideas along those lines right now.

[SickCat]

I tried Imp Feint a while back...I have NO clue what the purpose is of this feat.

An attack which also Bluffs the enemy, enabling a Sneak attack. It has a cooldown of 8 seconds.

It literally is an attack with a bluff attached to it that will give you A SINGLE sneak attack for that particular swing. Why not just bluff instead and open the target up to sneak attacks for a longer period of time? You won't have to take Combat Ex. Even if you can make this attack and not break sneak...still not worth a penny imo...since you'd get sneak damage on your opening attack anyway.

If the bluff lasted as long as a bluff skill check...even then...you still have to take combat expertise and all you're getting is a faster bluff. I just don't see the point to the feat. Am I missing something?

[Failedlegend]

Also, you are missing Precision, which is a fantastic feat and stance to stay in almost 100% of the time now, as the dmg penalty has been removed, and it offers +5% to hit and bypasses 25% fortification 100% of the time (no disclaimer stating that some mobs are immune). This makes Improved Sunder a little less attractive.

It's reduces fort...hmmmm interesting

I tried Imp Feint a while back...I have NO clue what the purpose is of this feat.

An attack which also Bluffs the enemy, enabling a Sneak attack. It has a cooldown of 8 seconds.

It literally is an attack with a bluff attached to it that will give you A SINGLE sneak attack for that particular swing. Why not just bluff instead and open the target up to sneak attacks for a longer period of time? You won't have to take Combat Ex. Even if you can make this attack and not break sneak...still not worth a penny imo...since you'd get sneak damage on your opening attack anyway.

If the bluff lasted as long as a bluff skill check...even then...you still have to take combat expertise and all you're getting is a faster bluff. I just don't see the point to the feat. Am I missing something?

Oh I figured it would like an AOE bluff which would be awesome...otherwise that is kind of pointless...no wonder they removed the feat

[Failedlegend]

Hmmmm....how about this than (will try out IF at lvl 12 will than report the outcome here...using free swap if it sucks)

1 Power Attack,Cleave
2 Toughness(M)
3 Precision
6 Stunning Blow
9 Great Cleave, Combat Expertise(M)
12 Improved Sunder
13 Dodge (M)
15 IC: Bludgeon
16 Improved Evasion (R)
18 WF: Bludgeon
20 Opportunist (R)
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Critical

ED: Shadowdancer and will likely Twist Sundering Swing (LD) & Legendary Tactics (LD),

Than train in Diplo instead of bluff...the only thing I wish is that this was a TR1 so I could have 10 Wisdom for easier access to druid spells (+1 item instead of +3) also skills will be a bit tight with so many non-rogue levels with wanting Trap Skills, Sneak (Hide/MS), UMD, Balance, Diplomacy and Concentration...OL, Balance and Spot will likely be the choices to fall behind

[flaggson]

I really like having 6 levels of monk.... and the 1 level of druid is just to beastly to pass up....

Personally, although I know a lot of people are recommending precision for every single rogue now... I just can't see it on my acrobat.... I've never really had an issue with hitting things...

here's the thing... with the playstyle of an acrobat I really think shadowdancer is kinda .. well not the best...... and I say that in the most loving way .. *gag*

I really think legendary dreadnaught adds so much more to acrobat.... upping your crits, your dmg, your to hit and your hitpoints... it is a natural fit *IMO* for the aggresive playstyle that is acrobat.... cause honestly with all that speed.. you should be slamming into mobs at the same time as your friendly neighborhood barbarian... and mitigating aggro in other ways

[Failedlegend]

I really like having 6 levels of monk.... and the 1 level of druid is just to beastly to pass up....

Personally, although I know a lot of people are recommending precision for every single rogue now... I just can't see it on my acrobat....

here's the thing... with the playstyle of an acrobat I really think shadowdancer is kinda .. well not the best...... and I say that in the most loving way .. *gag*

I really think legendary dreadnaught adds so much more to acrobat.... upping your crits, your dmg, your to hit and your hitpoints... it is a natural fit *IMO* for the aggresive playstyle that is acrobat.... cause honestly with all that speed.. you should be slamming into mobs at the same time as your friendly neighborhood barbarian... and mitigating aggro in other ways

Actually yeah I really have trouble keeping behind the tank so I started sneaking to help so I thought it would be cool to make a sneaky character but so far it seems to be against the acrobat style (which I am liking so far) if I don't go SD I'll probably twist a few things from it and actually dropping hide/ms will REALLY help my skills

Too bad fury of the wild doesn't grant a sort of rage similar to how unyielding sentinel grants turn undead because whilst it has ALOT of cool abilities but alot are reliant on raging.

Sidenote: How much can you rely on having a +4 Dex tome by lvl 21 or 23...since I'm going all tactics now I'm going Str Based so I'm hoping to lower dex by a point or two

Str 17 +3 tome + 3 Lvls = 23
Dex 15+ 4 tome + 2 Lvls = 21
Con 14
Int 11+ 2 tome = 13 (will likely use +1,+2 and +3 as soon as ML is met)
Wis 10+ 1 tome = 11 enough to cast druid spells by lvl 3 (both when i take my first druid lvl and the ML on +1 tomes)
Cha 8

[flaggson]

I believe rage pots work.. .not sure if that helps or not

[Sylvenon]

Whatever ED you go for, be sure to twist in 3 ranks of Running with Wind from Grandmaster of Flowers (Assuming you stay with 6 lvls monk and grab Adept of Wind). This ads 30% movement speed and 3% double strike.

[Failedlegend]

Whatever ED you go for, be sure to twist in 3 ranks of Running with Wind from Grandmaster of Flowers (Assuming you stay with 6 lvls monk and grab Adept of Wind). This ads 30% movement speed and 3% double strike.

OOOOooooo.....me likey

I also want this

A Dance of Flowers: Passive Bonus: +1.5[W] to attacks you make while centered.

which also allows me to take

Hail of Blows: Passive Bonus: +3% chance to doublestrike on melee attacks

Since I'll be in cloth armor and have a q-staff (ki weapon)


So thats three right there :P

[flaggson]

A Dance of Flowers: Passive Bonus: +[0.5/1.0/1.5][W] to attacks you make while centered.


Hail of Blows: Passive Bonus: +3% chance to doublestrike on melee attacks

Yes... these are quite awesome sauce

[Failedlegend]

Yes... these are quite awesome sauce

I'm really thinking I'm going Legendary Dreadnought now (Actually it works out because I recently switched my Palemaster Tank's planned ED to Unyielding Sentinel instead of LD...both cause it fits better and cause its blasphemes)

Anyways few other nice ones are...

FOTW

(Tier 1) Fast Healing: Passive Bonus: You heal 6d20 HP each minute

(Tier 2) Sense Weakness: Passive Bonus: You deal 30% extra damage to helpless targets, 1d8 extra damage to enemies below 75% HP, 1d12 extra damage to enemies below 50% HP, and 1d20 extra damage to enemies below 25% HP. These are cumulative.


SD

(Tier 2) Lithe: Passive Bonus: +6 reflex, AC and light armor Max Dex Bonus

(Tier 3) Grim Precision: Bypass 15% enemy fortification and 3% enemy dodge.

(Tier 4) Improved Invisibility: Active Ability: (Cooldown 4min) Turn invisible for 30 seconds. Attacking does not break this effect. After it wears off, you retain partial concealment for a time (grants displacement for 90 seconds).

So with only 3 slots to twist I have some choices to make when the time comes...right now I'll most likely go with Running with Wind and Dance of Flowers the 3rd one I'm not sure.

If you go Shadowdancer, you cannot have Hail of Blows, because you will lose the prerequisite Dance of Flowers, unless you twist that too. Running with the Wind has no such prerequisite, and only requires 2 fate points.

Shadowdancer offers plenty to this build, asuming you like playing like a Rogue and not a Fighter

Technician ads +6 to all trapping skills my Wizard 18/Rogue 2 can handle traps with no issue, this guy has 13 Lvls of rogue so this is kinda meh
Skill Mastery is +1 bonus to al skills very minor
Lithe for +6 Reflex I can twist that
5d6 more sneak attack damage that was the big draw of SD for me...so yeah gonna be hard to give up
Grim Precision for 15% more fortification bypass I can twist that...whats my Fort bypass at this point...hmmmm
Improved Invis for 2 minutes of invis/diaplacement every 4 minutes Again on my list of possible twists
Immunity to lvl Drain this one is nice
Shadow Form for 25% incorporeality and built in "ghost touch" I already have ninja fade...ghost touch is cool but minor

I am really excited about finishing my own 12/6/1 R/M/F build (currently lvl 19), and twisting Grandmaster enhancements into Shadowdancer.

notes in Orange

[Sylvenon]

If you go Shadowdancer, you cannot have Hail of Blows, because you will lose the prerequisite Dance of Flowers, unless you twist that too. Running with the Wind has no such prerequisite, and only requires 2 fate points.

Shadowdancer offers plenty to this build, asuming you like playing like a Rogue and not a Fighter

Technician ads +6 to all trapping skills
Skill Mastery is +1 bonus to all skills (every bit of UMD helps)
Lithe for +6 Reflex
5d6 more sneak attack damage
Grim Precision for 15% more fortification bypass
Improved Invis for 2 minutes of invis/diaplacement every 4 minutes
Immunity to lvl Drain
Shadow Form for 25% incorporeality and built in "ghost touch" (Stack with Shadow Form form Ninja? Likely just ads and addition roll for miss chance.)

I am really excited about finishing my own 12/6/1 R/M/F build (currently lvl 19), and twisting Grandmaster enhancements into Shadowdancer.

[flaggson]

If you go Shadowdancer, you cannot have Hail of Blows, because you will lose the prerequisite Dance of Flowers, unless you twist that too. Running with the Wind has no such prerequisite, and only requires 2 fate points.

Dance of Flowers adds 1.5 W... I can't see not twisting that.. specially with Improved power attack from LD... that means all your qstaves get a +2w
add in the shalala druid spell and yay!!