Need Advice on a Druid Build

[MalkavianX]

I've had a few druid build ideas rattling around in my brain for the past few days. Problem is, they just bring up more and more questions. This is where you people come in! I'm not terribly excited about the druid spells so I wanted to go for a melee based Druid. I haven't yet decided if I'll go 2wf or s&b. I like the idea of dual wielding flame blades, but I also like more AC. As far as end game viable.... meh. I wouldn't mind if it had decent solo-ability too. I only fiddled with druid during the Lama preview, so please excuse my noobie like questions.

I have some questions regarding Flame Blade. The description in wiki says:

Description:
Summons a scimitar of fire that does fire damage instead of slashing damage, and uses the wielder's Wisdom instead of Strength for determining attack and damage bonuses. The user can chose to summon a single scimitar or two for dual wielding. The swords are automatically equipped when created. At caster level 1, it has a +1 enhancement bonus and the flaming effect. Every five caster levels the summoned swords improve. Because they are an extension of the caster's will, monks may use these weapons without becoming uncentered. The flame blade is not a physical weapon, but rather pure flame shaped by the caster's will; because of this, it is snuffed out if unequipped.

1. If it isn't a physical weapon, (ergo, it has no weight) is it affected by weapon finesse?

2. Is it safe to assume that, even though it uses wisdom for att/dmg bonuses, you still need the 17 Dex for Imp 2wf?

3. If you don't care about the Druid capstone, what would be a good amount of druid levels to take? I was thinking an 18/2 Druid/monk split, but I wouldn't mind having a few fighter levels in there too.

4. Is it safe to assume that the druid pet levels up just like the arty pet?

5. Race? I was thinking human (mostly for the extra feat and skill points), but was wondering how other races would be if I wanted to have some solo viability.

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

I'll likely have even more questions once I start hashing this build out on the character planner. It's just that I have to leave for work and I'm out of time! Later!

[Khatzhas]

1) No: it still counts as a scimitar, and thus is not finessable. (Moot point anyway since it is specifically set to using Wis to attack with.)
2) Yes: The feat prerequisites haven't changed, and aren't affected by your ability to use a specific weapon.
3) Remember that you'll likely be fighting in an elemental form at high level, so you will want at least some of the higher-end spells that affect them.
4) Yes. The action-point enhancements are generally different, and the ability scores may not be the same, but it does level up like the artificer pet in general.

Most races have some applicable advantage. Human would also get healing amplification, whick works nicely with the vigor spells.
Do you have access to all races? Someone is bound to suggest half-elf unless you specifically point out that you don't have access to them.

[Trifikas]

Do you have access to all races? Someone is bound to suggest half-elf unless you specifically point out that you don't have access to them.

I'll be that guy. I went half-elf for fighter dillitante. I'm went with 2-handed fighting because I just couldn't fit all the feats I watend with the 2-weapon line. Currently, at level 9, with Augment Summoning, Maximize and Power Attack, it's been pretty fun and quite survivable doing nothing but elite quests at level. Not sure how things will be at higher levels, but so far it's working well. It's helps that my wolf companion and summoned monsters knock things down all the time and contribute quite a bit to the kill count.

[MalkavianX]

Do you have access to all races? Someone is bound to suggest half-elf unless you specifically point out that you don't have access to them.

My bad. Yes, access to everything. Every class, every race, every quest, even 32 point builds and vet status II. I plan on rolling her up on my main server so gear/cash shouldn't be too much of a problem.

1) No: it still counts as a scimitar, and thus is not finessable. (Moot point anyway since it is specifically set to using Wis to attack with.)

So, if it's still considered a scimitar, I'd need Oversized Two Weapon Fighting to dual wield them?

My main goal would be solo-ability though. I know, I know, "It's a party based game." but I have a messed up schedule so having enough time to wait around for a group is nearly impossible for me.

I would love to fit rogue in there somewhere, but that would be stretching stat points, feats, and skill points waaay to thin. Something that can kill with decent speed and self heal would be good enough, as I'm not above using the monkey level intelligence hirelings. Wait, that was an insult to monkeys... again, my bad. I'm going to go hit the planner and roll up a 2wf druid/x, a 2hf druid/x, and even a s&b druid/x. I'll post them as soon as I can so you helpful people can poke holes in them for me. I'd rather have holes poked in them before I roll one up to save me a lot of headaches. I have kids, headaches a plenty here.

One more thought, if I splash arty in there, can I summon the crappy (as in only 2 levels of arty crappy) iron defender as well as the druid pet/wolf/thing?

[MalkavianX]

Here they are in all of their (for lack of a better term) glory. I only put them to level 7 to see how they progressed. I'll likely end up going with an 18/2 druid/fighter split on each of them.

Here's the s&b:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Druid Sword and Board
Level 7 True Neutral Human Female
(1 Fighter \ 6 Druid) 
Hit Points: 155
Spell Points: 385 
BAB: 5\5\10
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 2
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 7)
Strength             18                    22
Dexterity            10                    10
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma              8                     8

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 7)
Balance               0                     0
Bluff                -1                    -1
Concentration         2                    14
Diplomacy            -1                    -1
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate           -1                    -1
Jump                  4                     7
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         0                     0
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  3                    11
Swim                  4                     6
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      1                     4

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 7 (Druid)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Strength I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness II

And the 2hf:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Druid Two Handed
Level 7 True Neutral Half-Orc Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Druid) 
Hit Points: 145
Spell Points: 385 
BAB: 5\5\10
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 1
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 7)
Strength             20                    25
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence          6                     6
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma              6                     6

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 7)
Balance              -1                    -1
Bluff                -2                    -2
Concentration         3                    14
Diplomacy            -2                    -2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -2                    -2
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate           -2                    -2
Jump                  9                    12
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -2                    -2
Search               -2                    -2
Spot                  2                     4
Swim                  5                     7
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 7 (Druid)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Druid Aggravate I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Orcish Fury I
Enhancement: Orcish Melee Damage I
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I
Enhancement: Orcish Great Weapon Aptitude I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Strength I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I

and finally the 2wf:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.01
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Druid Two Weapon 
Level 7 True Neutral Human Male
(1 Fighter \ 6 Druid) 
Hit Points: 135
Spell Points: 385 
BAB: 5\5\10
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 5
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 7)
Strength             16                    19
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom               14                    17
Charisma              8                    10

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 7)
Balance               2                     3
Bluff                -1                     0
Concentration         2                    12
Diplomacy            -1                     0
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                     0
Heal                  2                     3
Hide                  2                     3
Intimidate           -1                     0
Jump                  3                     4
Listen                2                     3
Move Silently         2                     3
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                    n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                  4                    13
Swim                  3                     4
Tumble                n/a                   4
Use Magic Device      1                     5

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Druid)


Level 3 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Empower Healing Spell
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Bear


Level 4 (Druid)


Level 5 (Druid)


Level 6 (Druid)
Feat: (Selected) Augment Summoning
Feat: (Druid Wild Shape) Wild Shape: Wolf


Level 7 (Druid)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Druid Beastial Nature I
Enhancement: Druid Blood Moon Frenzy I
Enhancement: Druid Nature's Warrior I
Enhancement: Druid Shifting Rake I
Enhancement: Druid Vengeful Hunter I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Waxing Life I
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Zenith of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of the Sun I
Enhancement: Druid Eminence of Life I
Enhancement: Druid Strength I
Enhancement: Druid Wisdom I
Enhancement: Druid Toughness I

I have to say, I'm leaning towards the s&b build so far. What with all the new shield enhancements and all, like a Holy Burst Tower Shield of Noobness or something. Either way, they all look like fun. Maybe I'll end up rolling all 3, who knows? It's not like I'm an alt-oholic with multiple characters on every server or anything. Honest. Really.

One more thought. I just re-read the Flame Blade spell, wisdom for to hit AND damage. Might have to re-think the stat placement on the 2wf and s&b. Back to the drawing board! If I do go with Flame Blade for primary weapon use, there's no point in taking Imp Crit is there? Also, what IC feat would I take for animal form damage? Is it even necessary?

[Khatzhas]

Need to confirm some of this stuff, but as of right now, I think its all correct.

I believe that Flame Blade is still affected by Imp.Crit: Slashing. Since a lot of the nice effects are triggered by crits, a Flame blade specialist will want IC: Slash.
Animal form attacks are affected by IC: Bludgeoning however, no matter what weapon you use. If you're fighting in animal form, you'd want that feat instead. A lot of Natural Warrior enhancements have effects that trigger off crits, so you will want the feat if you fight in wolf form.

Animal forms can use Cleave and great cleave (and have their own animations) but using a two-handed weapon in animal form does not confer the extra power attack damage or glancing blows.

You can't attack while blocking in animal form, even with a shield. I do not think that you will get the shield bash attacks from Imp Shield bash either.

Still trying to test whether Flame blade still uses Wis to attack even in animal form. Currently unsure.

[MalkavianX]

Just a few more things I'd like to clarify before I decide. It's down to 2wf and s&b.

I'm trying to work through all the ways for the s&b to reduce physical damage. Assume use of a tower shield:

1. Shield Mastery gives you physical resistance 10 (tower shield) and Imp Shield Mastery gives you physical resistance 15. Do these stack for a total of 25? Or do you just get the 15 from Improved? (assume the latter and call it 15)

2. Druid Nature's Warrior II Gives you a total of 11 physical resistance in Bear Form. Does this stack with the Shield/Imp Shield Mastery physical resistance?

3. Druid Nature's Warrior II also gives you physical resistance 4 when blocking. Does this add to the Bear Form physical resistance?

4. If it did, would that, in turn, also stack with the 70% damage reduction from Druid: Hide of the Crocodile(9th entry on druid enhancement page) ? Or is this a separate DR altogether?

5. That being said Barb Damage Reduction Boost I(2nd entry under Action Boost) gives you DR 6/-.

I'm going to try and work this out mathematically, feel free to correct my math. Assume no other forms of damage reduction aside from the above forms. Then say I got hit for 100 points of damage while blocking with a vanilla tower shield and only Imp Shield Mastery counts.

Would that be 100-(100*(.7+.11+.4+.15)) = 0 damage?

and if Shield Mastery does stack with Imp Shield Mastery:

Would that be 100-(100*(.7+.11+.4+.15+.1)) = -10 meaning you get back or it would still be zero?

I know, I know, wild speculation and hope. But I'd like to be sure before I waste time rolling one up.

[Khatzhas]

I don't think it works like that. I'm also not sure which is applied first. I'll assume DR is.

100pt hit.
Damage reduction first: I think blocking stacks with barb. 4 Blocking + 6 Barb boost = 10/-
90pts goes through.

I don't know whether Hide of the Crocodile is applied before or after PRR. Assume after.

PRR: 15 Shield + 11 Bear + 4 Blocking = 30
PRR 30 is 16.92% reduction http://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Resistance_Rating
83.08% of 90 is 75 pts (rounding up).

Hide of the crocodile reduces damage by 70%

30% of 75 = 23 points of damage gets through.
Note that if you were wearing armour, that would give you more PRR.