Are Raid Timers Necessary in today's incarnation of DDO?

[Alavatar]

As the title asks:

Are Raid Timers necessary in today's incarnation of DDO?

Observations:

• Current raids offer sub-par gear (or in the best case, equivalent) in comparison to the recently released Update 14 and Update 15 content. This makes existing raids less attractive and so run less frequently.
  
  • The exception is possibly the ESoS.
  
  
• Update 14 and Update 15 do not have timers to repeat the content allowing players to repeat the quests at their hearts content without fear of being locked out for a time.
  
  • The exception is "Caught in the Web" which many players feel the loot isn't attractive enough for the headache of running the quest.
    
    • Note: I said "many", not "most", "all", or "majority". I do not know the statistics and will refrain from posting an uninformed hypothesis, therefore using the term "many" to denote there is a general stigma conveyed by the forums and the community at large that "Caught in the Web" is not one to run for loot.
    
    
  
  
• Update 15 introduced a new DDO Store only item that allows you to bypass a Raid Timer for a single raid.
• Raids released prior to Update MA and LoB are rarely run at level. Having a full group at level is even more rare. This is due to:
  
  • (a) player not wanting to break their Bravery Bonus
  • (b) at level raids not providing adequate xp-per-minute
  
  

Relevant rhetoric:

Either timers serve an useful purpose, or they don't. If they do, bypassing them with money is very bad design. If they don't, turbine's putting a rock in the middle of the street just so they can charge us to remove it.

I am curious what the community thinks.

[Havok.cry]

A raid timer is an artificial means of extending the lifetime of the raid. That is the only purpose I have ever been able to figure out for it. I would be happy to see raid timers cease to exist, because everyone should be able to run whatever quest they want to, when ever they want to. The very concept of a raid timer is stupid IMHO, because if the content is fun people will continue to run it regardless, and if it isn't fun, they should not have released it in the first place.

[TempestAlphaOmega]

I am in the camp that believe Raid Timers were put in place to extend the subscription time of the player, mostly because of a lack of content.

Now that there is more content available I believe that Turbine should consider removing the timers on at least the older raids.

[Eighnuss]

Yes, because without them no one would by raid timer bypasses

/thread

[Rian]

They most likely will not remove raid timers now that they can sell a bypass in the store.

[Ryiah]

• Update 15 introduced a new DDO Store only item that allows you to bypass a Raid Timer for a single raid.

This is why raid timers will not be removed. If Turbine can make money from it, they will keep it.

[Myrrae]

I don't really see any purpose for the raid timers. I don't think Turbine does (other than to sell bypasses) either.

I say this because the last thing they would want is for people who are willing to spend money on the game to get all of their shinies and stop paying them sooner.

I'd like it if they at least added some mechanism for bypassing raid timers in game, collectible turn-ins or something.

[Alavatar]

This is why raid timers will not be removed. If Turbine can make money from it, they will keep it.

Not necessarily. They removed Leveling Sigils.

[licho]

I dont see the reason for raid timer as well.
Its totally artificial, dont create fun, only effect is "sorry cant heal your raid, since im on timer".
I wish they reduce it to something like 18 hours.

[KingOfCheese]

Raid timers prevent us from accumulating too many overpowered raid items like the Battle Coin from the Titan Raid. Can you imagine how broken the game would be if we all ran around with that much healing power?!?!?!

On a serious note, I do think that the game has evolved to a place where it would be better for nearly everyone if the raid timers were gone. It would make the game more fun for many players. It would increase the number of raids being run--likely giving more people the opportunity to get into runs. And I think it would make Turbine more money--as I suspect that store-bought resources (mana pots, etc.) are used at a higher frequency in raids than quests.

[Charononus]

(c) at level raids on Elite are sometimes not completable anymore (e.g. VoN6 Elite with L12 characters).

I don't think this is true ever, just completed an at lvl von 6 max lvl 12, run on elite a few days ago, it was close because of the lack of mass heal but it was very doable with well built well geared toons.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Lessening of the time-sink-reward ratio is BAD for ALL of us no matter how much revenue can be derived from an instore item.

If you disagree with this, that's fine, but (you) will be far more upset if random loot is as good as raid loot.

If raid loot is not to be as exceptional as it was originally designed, then why have raids?

Our random loot tables have been adjusted, and raid loot has not.

The timers were in-place to ensure that proper balance of raid vs random loot was maintained.

Remember, the "new business model" has been around for less than half the life of of the game. And is slowly eroding away the base line of things like loot tables.

If the trend continues, the entire system will break, and leave us with such a watered down version of DDO, established players will find another game. And newer players won't have a "brass ring" to reach for.

[ananigma]

Yes, cause now the raid-timer bypass is an in-store item and it generates revenue for Turbine.

[Alavatar]

If you disagree with this, that's fine, but (you) will be far more upset if random loot is as good as raid loot.

The only difference between some old raid loot and new random loot is Minimum Level.

[Captain_Wizbang]

The only difference between some old raid loot and new random loot is Minimum Level.

Yup.

[Alavatar]

I don't think this is true ever, just completed an at lvl von 6 max lvl 12, run on elite a few days ago, it was close because of the lack of mass heal but it was very doable with well built well geared toons.

That's fair. I deleted that from my OP.

[redspecter23]

Do I think that all raid timers could be removed and have the game still be balanced?
Yes, because the ship has already sailed with the addition of raid timer bypass to the DDO store. Removing the timer now doesn't unbalance anything.

Do I think the timers will be removed?
Not on your life. It generates $ for Turbine now.

Do I think it's right?
Nope.

[DaSawks]

You forgot Torq from Demon Queen and Madstone Boots from Reavers Fate.

Asside from those 2 and the SOS there is no reason to run RAIDS in the current environment. If I could run 20 DQ's I would do it tonight. After running 3 toons to 20 completions and not seeing a single Torq I would be angry if the timer was removed.

I say keep the timers but allow other ways to earn the new DDO store timer reset.

1. Give it away as a Favor reward.
2. Make them craftable with RAID tokens.
3. Random loot drops?
4. Guild wide resets?
5. Birthday gifts?
6. Drop in Epic RAID chests.
7. 20th completions could give a 24hr "no timer" pass.
8. Cut the timer time down as the completion number rises.
9. A free weekend giveaway?

[Dolphious]

Seems like they came to basically the same conclusion at Turbine, but decided to go with DDO store bypasses rather than a general reduction in timers.

I was in a caught in the web this morning and it sounded like half the group was planing to use a bypass and run it again later in the day.

[Ranncore]

It's true that Turbine won't remove raid timers unless they can make some money off of it, and it's also true that running raids is becoming more and more rare, especially at level.

I think reducing the raid timer for VIP would be a good adjustment and good incentive, and more raids would be run more often because of it.