Dubbell O'Seven - casting/ranged focused artificer

[Shrimpboy]

I tried out advancing blows and the buff does appear in my buff bar, although I have not done any testing to verify that it is actually applying. I would assume that it is. Given the lowish crit rate of repeaters, though, I never picked up more than a couple stacks and so I don't think it's essential. I'll keep it for now, but if you need to free up some points in dreadnaught for something else, I'd say this is worth cutting.

It was recently brought to my attention that PRR augments do not apply to MRR like the sheltering effect does. So I'd like to work in a sheltering item on Dubbell, but I'm having trouble figuring out where to slot it.

Sheltering 30 is found on Dumathoin's Bracers, Shroud of Ardent (neck), and Mythic Minos Legens. The Sage's Locket is the only way to get evocation focus outside of the weapon, so this is not something that can be given up. Epic Inferno Bracers is the best elemental spell power item that I am aware of, so I can't see giving this up either. Epic Deific Diadem just looks like a really nice helm. The lesser heighten is useless to me, and the wis 11 and cha 11 are nice but certainly not vital. Int 11 can be slotted elsewhere (gloves or ring), but deific focus is something I'd certainly like to have.

Sheltering 24 is on the Guardian's Ring. If I lose Consuming Darkness, I'd have to slot seeker in the goggles slot using Epic Mentau's Goggles and giving up the Intricate Field Optics which is my source of insightful int 3, which I don't want to do. Or I could lose the Avithoul Seal. I will have exceptional sneak attack on the Epic Quiver of Alacrity, but I won't have regular sneak attack or improved deception anywhere else. I could use Backstabber's Gloves for sneak attack and improved deception, but then I'd lose deadly and 2d6 light damage, which I don't think is a good trade off. Improved deception is not as vital for a ranged build as it is for a melee. And while I don't want to lose 8 points of sneak attack damage, 24 MRR would give me another 9% magic damage reduction on top of the 31% I have without it. So I'm leaning toward dropping the Avithoul Seal and using the Guardian's Ring instead, but I'd like to know what you all think about these options, or if you see other options.

I'm having the exact same issue. +8 SA vs 24 PRR and MRR. Let me know which you decide, but I think I'm leaning slightly towards the Guardian's Ring. But if you are surviving just fine with your current setup, then surely the DPS would be more useful.

[CThruTheEgo]

It was recently brought to my attention that PRR augments do not apply to MRR like the sheltering effect does.

It turns out I was misinformed and this is not correct. I confirmed yesterday in game that PRR augments do apply to MRR. The difference between a MRR 16 and 24 item is about 3% magic damage reduction. So I'll be using the Avithoul Seal and a blue PRR16 augment. OP updated.

[Shrimpboy]

Quick question... Now that you have to charge up Blitz and keep it sustained, how often do you use your rune arm, blade barrier and Energy Burst now? My biggest concern of Fury VS Dreadnought for arties is not only about DPS, but about playstyle. Does it feel very arty like still? I can't test because my main is in a TR train...

[CThruTheEgo]

Quick question... Now that you have to charge up Blitz and keep it sustained, how often do you use your rune arm, blade barrier and Energy Burst now? My biggest concern of Fury VS Dreadnought for arties is not only about DPS, but about playstyle. Does it feel very arty like still? I can't test because my main is in a TR train...

I don't use those when I'm building it up, but once I've got a few stacks of blitz I add them into the rotation. I took your suggestion about taking damage boost from dreadnaught instead of haste boost and using endless fusilade to charge blitz. It works great and it's not uncommon to end up with 5 stacks of blitz by the time fusilade ends. I have not yet failed to charge blitz when using endless fusilade. So I don't keep the rune arm, energy burst, or blade barrier out of rotation for very long, only initially. And since you end up with 11 action boosts, if you start getting low on blitz stacks, you just hit endless fusilade again and build it up instantly.

This does require having a target that will live long enough through endless fusilade, so it's best for raids, bosses on EN/EH, and regular trash on EE.

[Doutrinador]

Updated for U23.

A friendly reminder:
UNEQUIP YOUR PET'S GEAR BEFORE A LESSER OR EPIC REINCARNATION!!!
It will disappear if you do not do this.

Dubbell O'Seven
WF artificer 20
True neutral
36 point build

This is a 36 point casting/ranged/survivability focused artificer with a sorc PL. Went WF for survivability and easy button self-healing. Goals for the character are casting/ranged dps, survivability through high HP and quickened reconstruct, and self-sufficiency. Breakdowns on everything can be found below. I'd appreciate any feedback about the build. Thanks in advance.

Stats:
str: 8
dex: 16
con: 18
int: 18
wis: 6
cha: 6

All level up points in int.
+5 tome in dex required.

Feats:
1 point blank shot
3 rapid shot
4a precise shot
6 empower
8a maximize
9 spell focus evocation
12a imp crit ranged
12 adamantine body (arcance spell failure will be 0)
15 greater spell focus evocation
16a improved precise shot
18 insightful reflexes
20a quicken
21 combat archery
24 overwhelming critical
26 epic spell power fire
27 ruin
28 doubleshot
Note: Empower is taken at level 6 so it can be swapped with precision if desired.

Skills: max spot, search, disable, open lock, UMD, repair, spellcraft, concentration, balance, jump

Spell List:
1st: Ablative Armor, Resist Energy, Conjure Bolts, Enchant Weapons, Enchant Armor
2nd: Elemental Weapons, Byeshk Weapons, Reinforce Construct, Toughen Construct, Elemental Prod
3rd: Stoneskin, Flame Turret, Insightful Damage, Adamantine Weapons, Positive Energy Infusion
4th: Protection From Elements, Lightning Motes, Thundering Armor, Armor of Speed, Cold Iron Weapons
5th: Radiant Forcefield, Prismatic Strike, Align Weapons, Silver Weapons
6th: Blade Barrier, Tactical Detonation, Deadly Weapons, Reconstruct

Enhancements:
Battle Engineer: 41 total
Core: 6 total
battle engineer 1 (rune arm provides 8 spell power when charged to tier 1)
infused weapons 1 (1 enhancement to weapon, 1 seeker, rune arm provides 8 spell power when charged to tier 2)
infused armor 1 (1 enhancement to armor, 5PRR, -10% ASF, rune arm provides 8 spell power when charged to tier 3)
infused weapons 1 (1 enhancement to weapon, 1 seeker, rune arm provides 8 spell power when charged to tier 4)
infused armor 1 (1 enhancement to armor, 5PRR, -10% ASF, rune arm provides 8 spell power when charged to tier 5)
master engineer 1 (2 int, 1 enhancement to weapon and armor, weapon provides implement bonus)
Tier1: 5 total
weapon training - crossbow 2 (1 to hit)
thermal venting 3 (-30% rune arm cooldown)
Tier2: 5 total
weapon training - crossbow 2 (1 to hit and damage)
thaumaturgical conduits 3 (+33% rune arm charge rate)
Tier3: 10 total
weapon training - crossbow 2 (1 to hit)
extra action boost 4 (2 extra action boosts)
arcane capacitors 2 (-25% rune arm charge decay)
int 2
Tier4: 10 total
weapon training - crossbow 2 (1 to hit and damage)
endless fusilade 2
rune arm overcharge 2 (stable charge tier 2)
arcane capacitors 2 (-50% rune arm charge decay when moving)
int 2
Tier5: 5 total
weapon attachment 1 (0.5[W])
rune arm overcharge 2 (stable charge tier 3)
tactical mobility 2 (rune arm charge does not reduce movement speed)

Harper: 32 total
Core: 7 total
Agent of good 1 (1 to hit vs evil, 1 universal spell power)
Int 2
Agent of good 1 (2 to hit/damage vs evil, 5 universal spell power)
Int 2
Agent of good 1 (3 to hit/damage vs evil, 10 universal spell power)
Tier 1: 6 total
Harper enchantment 2 (1 weapon enhancement, 20 spell points)
Strategic combat I 2 (int to hit)
Traveler's toughness 2 (10 HP)
Tier 2: 6 total
Know the angles 3 (int based divine might)
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Tier 3: 5 total
Int 2
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Tier 4: 8 total
Versatile adept 3 (3 melee/ranged/spell power)
Throat dagger 3 (SLA, 1 sp, 15s cooldown, d4+4 pierce damage per character level, non-boss enemies can't cast for 6 seconds)
Int 2

Arcanotechnician: 7 total
Core: 1 total
arcanotechnician 1 (1 universal spell power per point spent)
Tier1: 4 total
uncaring master 2 (no damage when defender dies)
spell critical 2 (1% electric, fire, force)
Tier2: 2 total
spell critical 2 (1% electric, fire, force)

Epic destiny:
Legendary Dreadnaught
Tier 1: 4 total
Extra action boost 2
Con 2
Tier 2: 5 total
Action boost damage 3 (30% damage boost)
Con 2
Tier 3: 5 total
Critical damage 3 (+6 crit damage)
Con 2
Tier 4: 2 total
Con 2
Tier 5: 6 total
Advancing blows 2 (+1 hit/damage on crit hit, stacks 5 times)
Devestating critical 2 (+1 crit multiplier on 19-20)
Con 2
Tier 6: 2 total
Master's Blitz PRR version 2 (7 ranged power for 15 seconds, 10% chance on hit to gain another stack, stacks 10 times, 30 PRR)
Note: To get blitz going, before I activate it, I usually tone down my damage by not using know the angles yet, make sure improved precise shot is on and try to have some mobs lined up, hit haste boost, then activate blitz. That usually ensures that I'll get a few stacks going and can build it up from there. If you can stand still, turn on archer's focus as well. A full stack of both archer's focus and blitz along with damage boost puts out a lot of consistent, high damage.

Twists:
1) Draconic incarnation energy burst fire
2) Magister evocation specialist (+3 evocation DC's)
3) Draconic incarnation precise casting (+2 evocation DC's)
Alternatives: energy sheathe electric (draconic incarnation tier 2), brace for impact (unyielding sentinal tier 1), fey form (shiradi champion tier 2), extra action boost (legendary dreadnaught tier 2)

Gear Set:
Weapon: Thunder-Forged Heavy Repeater (1st degree burns/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted meteoric star ruby/colorless slotted repair15)
vs fire immune mobs: Thunder-Forged Heavy Repeater (touch of shadows/dragon's edge/mortal fear/orange slotted meteoric star ruby/colorless slotted repair15)
Rune Arm: Knives Eternal (knife shot/spike guard/2d10 pierce imbue/impulse150/kinetic lore22/spiked - 3.5 pierce damage/yellow slotted disease10/green slotted poison10)
Armor: Shadowscale docent with shadow guardian upgrade (shadow phase x3/deathblock/ghostly/fort130/DR30 epic/DR60 epic below 75% health/blue slotted arcane spell failure -15%/green slotted max dex2)
Goggles: EH Intricate Field Optics (int3/spot20/TS/green slotted wizardry10/colorless slotted globe of true imperial blood)
Helm: Epic Deific Diadem helm (lesser heighten5/int11/wis11/cha11/deific focus2/yellow slotted greater evocation focus/green slotted sonic resistance40)
Neck: Sage's Locket (evocation focus5/spellcraft15)
Trinket: Epic Litany of the Dead (turn the page/profane abilities2/attack4/damage4/light of dawn/yellow slotted draconic soul gem/green slotted cha2)
Cloak: Epic Cloak of Flames (combustion90/fire lore16/insight AC4/fire absorption20%/fire shield hot/inherent fire resistance10/colorless slotted vitality/blue slotted good luck2)
Belt: Epic Belt of Thoughtful Remembrance (deathblock6/con11/concentration20/resistance11/dodge11/greater regen/yellow slotted blindness immunity/green slotted PRR16)
Ring Swap: EE Consuming Darkness (seeker12/combat mastery5/green slotted feather falling)
Gloves: Sanctified Gages gloves (UMD5/2d6 light damage/deadly11/greater dispelling guard/yellow slotted fear immunity/green slotted str6)
Boots: GS HP Smoke2 (45HP/dex skills6/blur/displacement clicky x2)
Ring: Seal of House Avithoul (wis2/exc sneak3/sneak attack5/imp deception)
Bracers: Epic Inferno Bracers (con11/fire resist40/combustion144/spellcraft20/blue slotted HP40/green slotted con2)
Quiver: Epic Quiver of Alacrity (concentration -50/speed15/ranged and spell threat -15%/insightful sneak4/doubleshot8)
Dog's Docent: Epic Blademark's Docent (life shield/DR5epic/contstruct fort10%/SFL/vertigo15/blue slotted heavy fort/colorless slotted str7)
Dog's Collar: Grave Wrappings (2d12 untyped/d3 neg levels on vorpal/imp destruction/stunning10)

Final Stats:
str22: 8base, 3tome, 6item, 1exc, 2profane, 2ship
dex26: 16base, 5tome, 1exc, 2profane, 2ship
con46: 18base, 5tome, 11item, 2insight, 1exc, 2profane, 5destiny, 2ship
int58: 18base, 4tome, 7levels, 2capstone, 2battle engineer, 4harper, 11item, 3insight, 1exc, 2profane, 2yugo, 2ship
wis27: 6base, 3tome, 11item, 2insight, 1exc, 2profane, 2ship
cha27: 6base, 3tome, 11item, 2insight, 1exc, 2profane, 2ship

HP:
120 base
80 epic levels
25 heroic durability
20 improved heroic durability
10 draconic vitality
10 traveler's toughness
60 legendary dreadnaught
504 con46
40 false life slotted
20 vitality
45 GS Smoke2
20 hag's apothecary ship buff
954 TOTAL
48 Yugo pot
1002 self buffed

SP:
845 artificer base
80 magical training
20 past life sorc
20 harper enchantment
851 int56
250 wizardry10
2066 Base SP

Fort/Reflex/Will Saves:
6/6/12 base
4/4/4 epic
11/11/11 item
2/2/2 good luck
1/1/1 alchemical
4/4/4 greater heroism
3/0/0 game hunter ship buff
0/2/0 chronoscope ship buff
0/0/2 grandmaster's dojo ship buff
15/0/0 con40
0/24/0 int58
0/0/8 wis27
46/54/44 TOTAL
0/6/0 lithe
0/3/0 int6 from shadowdancer
46/63/44 in shadowdancer

Evocation DC's:
16 base
24 int58
1 sorc PL
2 spell focus feats
5 evocation focus on Sage's Locket
2 greater evocation focus augment
1 archwizard ship buff
3 magister evocation specialist
2 draconic incarnation precise casting
56 DC blade barrier and tactical detonation (55 DC prismatic strike)

Dodge:
2 combat archery
11 belt
13 TOTAL, MDB is 5
Max dex bonus on adamantine body is 5 with blue slotted armored agility and fencing master ship buff.

PRR:
45 heavy armor
19 adamantine body with 19 BAB
16 slotted
80 TOTAL (44.44% damage reduction)

MRR:
45 light armor
16 slotted
61 TOTAL (37.89% magic damage reduction)

Force Spell Power:
23 ranks
8 epic
3 tome
24 int58
25 harper
7 arcanotechnician
48 implement
150 knives eternal
20 spellcraft
2 good luck
1 elite spider cult mask
3 forbidden library ship buff
4 GH
20 superior impact pot
338 TOTAL with 29% crit chance
150 maximize
75 empower
563 with metamagics
40 rune arm charge tier 5
603 with metamagics and fully charged rune arm

Fire Spell Power:
23 ranks
8 epic
3 tome
24 int58
25 harper
7 arcanotechnician
20 epic spell power fire
48 implement
144 epic inferno bracers
20 spellcraft
2 good luck
1 elite spider cult mask
3 forbidden library ship buff
15 sign of the silver flame ship buff
4 GH
25 superior inferno pot
372 TOTAL with 23% crit chance
40 rune arm charge tier 5
412 with fully charged rune arm

Repair Spell Power:
23 ranks
8 epic
3 tome
24 int58
25 harper
7 arcanotechnician
48 implement
15 slotted
2 good luck
1 elite spider cult mask
3 forbidden library ship buff
4 GH
25 superior mending pot
193 TOTAL - providing 435 HP quickened reconstructs
40 rune arm charge tier 5
233 with fully charged rune arm

NOTE: Some info below this point is from pre-U19 and may be outdated. I will update at some point in the future.

See post #46 for options on converting this build into a 32 point version.

See post #55 for my comments on building an arti only for leveling a past life, not built for endgame.

Alternative Build Options:
WF offers the greatest survivability by far, due to quickened reconstructs, as well as more options for spell power due to having fewer racial enhancement lines that are worth taking. Helf offers less survivability but better crossbow dps through the rogue dilettante and human versatility damage boost. Helf will spend more AP on racial enhancements which limits their ability to spend on spell power enhancements. Helf also has the option of picking up 1 more spell DC by taking human adaptability int and swapping combat archery with great int. These two races are optimal for this build. See this post for a good summary of the differences between WF and helf.

Helf:
For all out ranged dps and one more spell DC but with less survivability, self-sufficiency, and lower spell/runearm dps, go helf w/ rogue dil for 3d6 sneak attack. Start with dex16, con16, int18. Feats: drop quicken and pick up precision, drop epic toughness and pick up great int. Base HP of 602. Enhancements: drop repair1, healer's friend1 and 2, improved UMD2-4, and acid 7/2/1; swap WF con for human adaptability con; pick up human greater adaptability int, imp rogue dil2, human versatility damage boost2, and human improved recovery1 (heal amp).

Human:
Human offers an extra feat but there really isn't anything else you need, and human does not get the extra sneak attack damage that helf does through the rogue dil, making helf the better choice. Human also offers the same option of 1 more spell DC as helf.

Halfling, Elf, Drow:
Halfling, elf, or drow would all allow for the possibility of combat archery much more easily, but I don't think they offer much beyond that making helf the better alternative overall. I must admit, I have not worked out these options fully, but here is my brief opinion. Halfling sneak attack enhancements are very expensive and helf does more damage for less cost. The con penalty to elf reduces the survivability with no other benefit. Drow suffers the same con and survivability penalty as elf, but does gain 1 DC, though I'm still not sure that is worth it imo.

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any feedback.

----------------------------

Adding the following quote here for safe-keeping in case the Lamannia forums aren't available when it's needed.

NOOB question (never did an Ati) - do you use Intel to hit in harper but no Intel do damage? Missile wepons include bolts?

Thx

[CThruTheEgo]

NOOB question (never did an Ati) - do you use Intel to hit in harper but no Intel do damage? Missile wepons include bolts?

Thx

The artificer spell insightful damage gives you int to damage. They also have insightful strikes which grants int to hit, but you can only have one of these spells active at a time. Strategic combat 1 from harper combined with insightful damage lets me use int for both to hit and damage.

[Doutrinador]

the artificer spell insightful damage gives you int to damage. They also have insightful strikes which grants int to hit, but you can only have one of these spells active at a time. Strategic combat 1 from harper combined with insightful damage lets me use int for both to hit and damage.

thx

[Nodoze]

The artificer spell insightful damage gives you int to damage. They also have insightful strikes which grants int to hit, but you can only have one of these spells active at a time. Strategic combat 1 from harper combined with insightful damage lets me use int for both to hit and damage.

We used to have to use Dex to hit and Int to damage so this is a welcome change.

I love Insightful Reflexes on max Int characters but I just wish we could get the reflex save to be higher for EE.

[CThruTheEgo]

We used to have to use Dex to hit and Int to damage so this is a welcome change.

I love Insightful Reflexes on max Int characters but I just wish we could get the reflex save to be higher for EE.

Agreed. The reflex save is much lower than I'd like, but still in the useful range. The extra MRR from adamantine body helps with that though.

I was looking for a way to fit in precision (since I'm now in dreadnaught primarily instead of fury) and considered dropping insightful reflexes. But dropping insightful reflexes and slotting dex 8 and 2 would lower the reflex by 11 points, which would basically put it in the useless range. So I'm still an advocate for insightful reflexes. And I've not found a way to fit in precision. Empower is the only other option but I'm too attached to maxing blade barrier and ruin damage.

[unbongwah]

You could swap GSF:Evo for Precision; you only need SF:Evo for the DC Twists, so -1 DC is not too big a loss unless they're marginal to begin with.

[CThruTheEgo]

You could swap GSF:Evo for Precision; you only need SF:Evo for the DC Twists, so -1 DC is not too big a loss unless they're marginal to begin with.

They are marginal already. I do see some saves with a 56 DC blade barrier. And the rune arm doesn't use item or augment DCs, so that's already quite low and I see a lot of saves against it. The damage on both is still good even when saved against, but I hate to lose another DC since I already dropped ESF evo and I don't run in an int based ED.

You might be right though. 25% fort bypass may offer more overall dps than 1 more DC. It's hard to say since the reapeater damage can be quite variable depending on how many stacks of blitz are up and if I have archer's focus going as well.

[Caprice]

Do you find that you actually need the INT to damage from Harper? Your DEX is high too and you get lots of attack bonuses from BE and some from Harper plus a bit of accuracy off the Litany, so I would be a little surprised if you actually need it to hit consistently. If you can drop it that would free up 2 AP. You don't need those points to qualify for Harper tier 2, but you need to spend 1 of them somewhere in Harper to qualify for Core 5. E.g. You could take the third rank of Traveler's Toughness (+5 more HP), leaving 1 free to put someplace else (e.g. maybe WF Core 1 for +50% Fortification).

It's a minor tweak that doesn't offer a significant performance gain, but I don't really see INT to hit as all that valuable for a ranged Arty given the strong investment in DEX.

[CThruTheEgo]

Do you find that you actually need the INT to damage from Harper? Your DEX is high too and you get lots of attack bonuses from BE and some from Harper plus a bit of accuracy off the Litany, so I would be a little surprised if you actually need it to hit consistently. If you can drop it that would free up 2 AP. You don't need those points to qualify for Harper tier 2, but you need to spend 1 of them somewhere in Harper to qualify for Core 5. E.g. You could take the third rank of Traveler's Toughness (+5 more HP), leaving 1 free to put someplace else (e.g. maybe WF Core 1 for +50% Fortification).

It's a minor tweak that doesn't offer a significant performance gain, but I don't really see INT to hit as all that valuable for a ranged Arty given the strong investment in DEX.

If I slotted a dex 8 and 2 augment, the difference between dex mod and int mod would be 11 points, 12 if I ever put a +6 int tome on him. For the vast majority of mobs, the extra to hit is not needed. But against the mobs where it is useful, I'd value that over the benefit of 5 more hp and anything the 1 extra AP would provide. It's a personal choice and it makes little difference either way, that's just what my priorities are. But yes, you could certainly drop it if desired.

[Caprice]

If I slotted a dex 8 and 2 augment, the difference between dex mod and int mod would be 11 points, 12 if I ever put a +6 int tome on him. For the vast majority of mobs, the extra to hit is not needed. But against the mobs where it is useful, I'd value that over the benefit of 5 more hp and anything the 1 extra AP would provide. It's a personal choice and it makes little difference either way, that's just what my priorities are. But yes, you could certainly drop it if desired.

I'm curious about what mobs you do need it on. I play mostly casters and almost exclusively on EH rather than EE, but even on my casters it seems like I can melee and hit enemies more often than not. I'd like to know where I may run into troubles in EEs if I don't min-max my attack scores, since my own Arty in line for the epic treatment in the medium future.

You'd also commented in the Monte Cristo build that you've never had trouble hitting anything on that character even in EEs and there you treated its attack attribute almost as a dump stat. The MC build has the advantage of Inspire Courage, but comparing the two there is a noticeable attribute point spread (STR 10+tomes optional vs DEX 16+5 tome required). Without any investment into Warchanter for extra attack bonuses, IC gives +4 attack which is only slightly better than the difference in base stats. Both get similar total attack bonuses elsewhere (SB cores vs BE xbow). So I would expect that DEX on the artificer and STR on the bard would see similar attack performance. What am I overlooking?

[CThruTheEgo]

I'm curious about what mobs you do need it on. I play mostly casters and almost exclusively on EH rather than EE, but even on my casters it seems like I can melee and hit enemies more often than not. I'd like to know where I may run into troubles in EEs if I don't min-max my attack scores, since my own Arty in line for the epic treatment in the medium future.

It's not many. Mostly bosses in upper level EEs. EE Stormhorns, FoT, A Study in Sable, and Brothers of the Forge are places where I know I've noticed grazing hits against bosses when using dex to hit. To me, those are the times and places where it matters most though. There may be others but I don't recall specifically.

I've had int to hit for enecro, so I don't know about there.

You'd also commented in the Monte Cristo build that you've never had trouble hitting anything on that character even in EEs and there you treated its attack attribute almost as a dump stat. The MC build has the advantage of Inspire Courage, but comparing the two there is a noticeable attribute point spread (STR 10+tomes optional vs DEX 16+5 tome required). Without any investment into Warchanter for extra attack bonuses, IC gives +4 attack which is only slightly better than the difference in base stats. Both get similar total attack bonuses elsewhere (SB cores vs BE xbow). So I would expect that DEX on the artificer and STR on the bard would see similar attack performance. What am I overlooking?

I haven't calculated the to hit for Dubbell because it was never really questioned. The only reason I calculated it for the Count is because people kept asking me about my to hit with a low starting str. I'll calculate it for Dubbell when I have the time, if not today, tomorrow for sure. I know Dubbell's to hit is lower, but I don't know by how much exactly (well, it was lower with dex to hit, they might be about equal now). The Count is in divine crusader which grants BAB equal to your character level. So that's 28 BAB for the Count compared to 15 for Dubbell. I'm pretty sure the bard bonuses (from both enhancements and songs) add up to more than the bonuses from artificer (just battle engineer). But I'll calculate it out fully for an actual comparison.

[Caprice]

The Count is in divine crusader which grants BAB equal to your character level. So that's 28 BAB for the Count compared to 15 for Dubbell.

That's what I was overlooking, as that 13 difference is significant. You are welcome to do the detailed examination of course, but I think that part of the answer satisfies my question.

[Nodoze]

You could swap GSF:Evo for Precision; you only need SF:Evo for the DC Twists, so -1 DC is not too big a loss unless they're marginal to begin with.

That's what I was overlooking, as that 13 difference is significant. You are welcome to do the detailed examination of course, but I think that part of the answer satisfies my question.

Caprice & Unbongwa, Good to see two of my favorite contributors in one of my other favorite author's threads. The request a build thread has been fairly quiet lately but I keep it subscribed just to see what you gents come up with in response to all the crazy requests (and to help here and there where I can)... Hope you gents are doing well !

[CThruTheEgo]

That's what I was overlooking, as that 13 difference is significant. You are welcome to do the detailed examination of course, but I think that part of the answer satisfies my question.

You got me curious. So here is Dubbell's breakdown:

To-Hit:
15 artificer BAB
4 epic
3 enhancement from battle engineer cores
4 crossbow training
1 harper enchantment
24 int 58
4 profane
12 enhancement
2 tactical training room ship buff
69 Total
5 advancing blows
6 vs evil from harper cores
up to 80 situationally

Slotting dex 8 and 2 would give a final dex of 36 and a total 58 to hit if using dex to hit.

Using int to hit, Dubbell's is close to the Count's and is situationally higher.

Does anyone know if the harper agent of good core enhancements stack, or if only the highest applies? And is it also the same for the spell power from those?

[Caprice]

Edit: The following paragraph's guess is incorrect. Please see the post immediately below.
I doubt that the Harper bonuses stack to +6 attack and +16 USP but I have not verified that personally. The "must save with every click" bug put me off of the tree and I have not tried it since Monday's fix. Stacking on the spellpower side should be easy to check on a throwaway Iconic by seeing what happens when one adds Agent of Good 2; I will try to remember to give that a spin tonight.

Comparing Swashbuckler and Battle Engineer I see exactly the same attack bonuses granted (+3 weapon enchantment, +4 attack bonus = +7 effective) just in slightly different places. Swashbuckler gets everything in the cores, and Battle Engineer gives the weapon enhancement in the cores and the attack bonus via the Crossbow Training (or Hand-and-a-Half) line. FWIW, some others:

• Vanguard: +7 attack bonus w/shield equipped (+1 core, +2 capstone, +4 Shield Specialization line)
• Warchanter: +3 attack (The Poetic Edda), +3 additional attack granted by Inspire Courage (Inspired Bravery), Enchant Weapons spell for +1 weapon enchantment = +7 effective
• Warpriest: +4 weapon enchantment w/favored weapon (Righteous Weapons line)
• Kensei: +5 attack bonus w/focus group weapons (core 1, Weapon Group Specialization line)
• KotC: +2 attack bonus and +3 attack bonus versus evil and undead (in cores) (I would guess that these stack but have not checked)

Since Vanguard, Warchanter, and Swashbuckler are three of the most recently updated PrEs I wonder if +7 is a target number now. OTOH KotC was just revised and it only seems to have +5, so perhaps not.

Hi Nodoze! I've been a lurker on this thread for a long time but haven't had much to say. CThruTheEgo, Unbongwah, and I actually are all in the same guild now, which might potentially boggle the mind, but sometimes that leads me to ping CThru with questions in game rather than here.

[Caprice]

Harper's Agent of Good bonuses do stack on tiers I and II. I created a default BF and auto-leveled it to 15 but did not put on any gear. Taking Agent of Good 1 increased all of the spellpowers by 1. Then I took spellpower non-affecting enhancements (e.g. Awareness, Toughness, DEX stat), verified that I was still at +1 over base on everything, and then took Agent of Good II. The spellpowers all increased by 5 more, for +6 total. E.g. I have no points in Perform so it is not affected by attributes at all and starts as zero. It went to 1 then 6.

Then I equipped some basic gear and I stepped into the Manufactury and attacked a few mobs. My paperdoll listed an attack bonus of +26. Against the Bladehounds, which are True Neutral, my attack bonus as shown on the attack die was +26(/+31/...), which matched the paperdoll value. When I attacked the Bladesworn, which are all Neutral Evil, the die listed +29(/+34...), which is +3 over the paperdoll.

The first Agent of Good does not provide a damage bonus, so I could not test whether or not it stacks. But there is a high chance that Agent of Good III is worth +6 attack, +5 damage, and +16 spellpower.