Dubbell O'Seven - casting/ranged focused artificer

[Niexist]

This is an awesome build, and pretty much the guideline for my character. The only changes I've made is precision for empower. I'm also thinking I'll drop the ESF: evo in place of epic toughness because when I started my character I did a 18 con, 16 dex, 18 int starting build. I'm having to put my lvl 16, and 20 stats into dex to make the epic archery feat as well.

I really want to have that huge hit point pool from epic toughness so those full powered reconstructs can be hitting at about half life, and putting me to full. I went with precision because I see such a huge amount of my damage coming from my xbow while levelling, maybe when I'm all levelled up I'll change it out for empower, but I love having my xbow as maxed as possible, which is while I'll take the 1 pt hit to my evo DC for the combo of epic archery, and and epic toughness.

[CThruTheEgo]

What are your tactical det DCs? I mines 47 in SD and I see it work a lot on EE, but certainly not 100%.

Yeah I've got 47 DC on tactical detonation with ship buffs. This is just a rough estimate but I'd say it works maybe half the time in EE, which for me isn't nearly enough. If something saves against my spells in EH, I'm surprised. But in EE I usually won't even bother.

I am looking for a dragon cloak but the grind scares me. You will be jealous to learn that after 11 CiTWs I pulled a Needle

That Xbow is SICK.

I just finished the cloak last night and am seeing blade barrier hits for more like 400 now with crits hitting for 800-900. I'd really like to work in an impulse item but haven't figured out how to swap the gear around yet. And yes, I am jealous you have a Needle. I actually just started doing CitW last week, but have already heard about the rarity of Needle. Hopefully I will have similar luck.

How significant are those last 10 AP though? You crit, what, 5% more often for 0.5 more damage? I definitely agree that crits are fun and bigger crits are funner but I'm not sure that it's the best allocation of scarce resources. I'd be interested to see how much real DPS it provides in a raid situation (continuous rune arm firing).

Alternatively, you could take those 10 AP and push a second line like lightning (for Toven's Hammer) or acid (for Corruption of Nature) to 7/1/1. This lets you have a choice of targeting 2 saves rather than only using the lower base damage, will based save Lucid Dreams. You can also pick up the torc effect on the upgraded Toven's for SP regen. I'd imagine that 7/1/1 in Toven's/Corruption of Nature ~= 7/6/6 in Lucid as long as saves aren't an issue due to the lower base damage (happy to see maths to support or refute this). Toven's also has the advantage of AoE splash (which is a huge advantage in some quests).

Postumus had it right, it's all about synergy Wax. The force line affects not only the rune arm but also the three main offensive spells that an arti uses. I can see an argument for electric with Toven's because it also has the SP regen effect and offers another AoE option. But not a single arti spell does acid damage and it is the same type of shot as the force rune arms. Personally I think investing 9 AP for the benefit of only a single rune arm is a poor allocation of resources. I might think differently if/when I actually see that it does significantly more damage, but the fact would still remain that the acid line has very little synergy with the rest of the build.

Finally, I'd want Wand and Scroll Mastery at least at rank III, if not IV. Arti's are the best scroll healers in the game and can provide a good portion of their raid DPS while doing so. Seems a no brainer to take up this job even if it isn't the most fun.

I have never been asked to scroll heal a tank even though I have offered many times. A few updates ago, I would probably have agreed that W&SM was worth fully investing in. But building an effective tank is a lot easier now and there are A LOT more tanks available. Overpowered epic destinies and better defensive capabilities for pretty much everyone makes this enhancement line not as valuable as it used to be. Again, investing AP into a line that doesn't get used also seems to me like poor resource allocation.

Edit: also when comparing rune arms consider that you can get superior acid/lightning lore on boots, bracers or helm while can't think of many sources of superior kinetic lore that won't cost DPS.

And kinetic lore does not affect blade barrier, you need to go with arcane lore really, as laceration lore does not affect force damage. Arcane lore is easily found on Lucid Dreams, but I do not like the -5% spell point reduction that is also found on it. I have not been able to fit in arcane lore or greater arcane lore anywhere else. This is also something I have been trying to figure out where to fit into the gear set.

This is an awesome build, and pretty much the guideline for my character. The only changes I've made is precision for empower. I'm also thinking I'll drop the ESF: evo in place of epic toughness because when I started my character I did a 18 con, 16 dex, 18 int starting build. I'm having to put my lvl 16, and 20 stats into dex to make the epic archery feat as well.

I really want to have that huge hit point pool from epic toughness so those full powered reconstructs can be hitting at about half life, and putting me to full. I went with precision because I see such a huge amount of my damage coming from my xbow while levelling, maybe when I'm all levelled up I'll change it out for empower, but I love having my xbow as maxed as possible, which is while I'll take the 1 pt hit to my evo DC for the combo of epic archery, and and epic toughness.

Glad you are enjoying the build Niexist. I honestly haven't tried precision. I intended to swap it in and try it out but I've been too happy with the ridiculous blade barrier damage I get from both maximize and empower. But I can see an argument for either, it's a personal preference.

You will actually lose 2 DC's by taking epic toughness, 1 from not taking ESF evo and another from 2 level up points going to dex. But a 45 DC tactical detonation will still be very effective. I find the hit points I have without epic toughness and 14 starting con are actually enough, especially when I have evasion with shadowdancer active. But this is also a personal preference I would say. There are three things this build emphasizes: survivability, casting ability, and ranged dps. You can max out two of those with just a few alterations to the build, but you can't really max out all three. So you just have to decide what your focus is and adjust the build accordingly. I sacrificed a little survivability to max casting and ranged. The changes you describe max out ranged and survivability with a little sacrifice to casting. All variations are still very effective.

[sloejack]

Since you have eaten a +3 tome, would it make sense to drop starting Dex from 18 to 17 (you should still be good from a feat qualification perspective I think) and raise Con to 16 and kick the last point to Wis for better Will save?

[CThruTheEgo]

Since you have eaten a +3 tome, would it make sense to drop starting Dex from 18 to 17 (you should still be good from a feat qualification perspective I think) and raise Con to 16 and kick the last point to Wis for better Will save?

You need 21 dex for combat archery, so 18 starting dex allows all level up points to go into int. You still end up with 562 base hp with a 14 starting con, which I have found to be enough.

[Nodoze]

I followed your previous thread and this one with interest.

Before they expired, I used a stone on another server to quickly get a level 16 WF (32point build with a full set of +3 tomes) to join some friends. My friends on this server run EE type content and zerg through quests (expecting everyone to be self-sufficent).

I am curious how would you adapt/modify for 1st Lifer (32point with all +3s) doing EEs & Raids with a group of experienced Zergers? In particular what stats would you adjust down?

I see from your Evo DCs that I would lose 1 DC for no Sorc past life. Without past lives will my DCs suffer too much to not be viable in EE?

In the end I like the idea of having Evasion via Shadowdancer without splashing.

Any thoughts/advice on gear differences and smart roles to play with a 1st lifer version of this build in a zerg group would be appreciated.

[CThruTheEgo]

I followed your previous thread and this one with interest.

Before they expired, I used a stone on another server to quickly get a level 16 WF (32point build with a full set of +3 tomes) to join some friends. My friends on this server run EE type content and zerg through quests (expecting everyone to be self-sufficent).

I am curious how would you adapt/modify for 1st Lifer (32point with all +3s) doing EEs & Raids with a group of experienced Zergers? In particular what stats would you adjust down?

I see from your Evo DCs that I would lose 1 DC for no Sorc past life. Without past lives will my DCs suffer too much to not be viable in EE?

In the end I like the idea of having Evasion via Shadowdancer without splashing.

Any thoughts/advice on gear differences and smart roles to play with a 1st lifer version of this build in a zerg group would be appreciated.

First off, I wouldn't change the gear as none of it is exceptionally difficult to obtain. Anything from the new content is easy enough to farm. The cloak is simply an annoying grind but not difficult. The two greensteel items are also a grind, but not if you either 1) already have ingredients on that server from alts or 2) your friends are willing to give you ingredients. If neither of those is the case, just do elite shrouds every three days and you should have what you need soon enough. You are going to want to do 20 shrouds anyway for the cleansing stone. If you don't have a crafter on that server, it should be easy enough to find one who can make you the belt. Tharne's is a luck based grind, not difficult. The cannith challenge items are easily obtainable.

I'm actually still undecided about the Tharne's/stalker ring combo vs the smoke goggles/avithoul seal combo. I do like the improved deception on the avithoul seal. The only things gained from the tharne's/stalker combo are true seeing (which can be scrolled as needed), ghostly (which I will probably be getting from the new U16 boots if they make it to live, and then just use propulsion boots as a swap), search15 (which can be swapped as needed), and spot15 (which I'd like to have on permanently, but I know where most traps are and will learn new ones quickly enough). So spot is the only thing that is really gained from the tharne's/stalker combo, and I'm not sure that's worth giving up improved deception for. I figure if I go with the smoke/avithoul combo I'll swap in spot goggles as needed and just lose out on the manslayer/seeker6 from the smoke goggles when I do.

Now onto 32 pt build considerations. You are right, you are only losing 1 DC from sorc past life, not a big deal. I don't find the CC aspects of this build to be sufficient in EE content anyway, personally. It works, but not as much as I'd like it to. If you lower the build's current DC's by 1-2, then I wouldn't even consider CCing in EE. Your blade barrier will still do significant damage even if mobs save against it so DC doesn't matter as much here. Keep in mind, however, that int also affects ranged dps when using insightful damage, so it's not just for spell DC's; and evocation DC determines rune arm DC as well. As I mentioned in my response to Niexist, this build emphasizes three things: casting ability, ranged dps, and survivability. With 36 pts you can max out two of those and only one has to suffer a little. But with 32 pts you can either max one and two have to suffer a little, or max two and one suffers a lot. Let's consider some possible starting stats:

str8
dex18
con10
int18
wis6
cha6
This allows all level ups to go into int so you only end up with 1 less DC (from no sorc PL) than the build in the OP. You can also take combat archery so your ranged dps is maxed out as well. But, you only end up with 512 hp, so you are really sacrificing survivability and I don't think I'd want to go into EE content with just over 500 hp.

str8
dex16
con16
int18
wis6
cha6
With these starting stats you will actually end up with 25 more HP than the build in the OP, so you will have slightly better survivability. You have two choices. 1) You can put all level ups into int and still only be out that one DC from sorc PL, but you lose combat archery also. 2) You could put two level up points into dex and take combat archery but lose a total of 2 DC's (one from sorc PL and one from two level up points). With the first option your ranged suffers, and with the second your casting ability suffers. But since I'm not entirely content with the casting ability in EE content as it is, and this is what you will be primarily running, I would probably go with the second option for your build. Your casting ability with the second option will still be sufficient for EH content if you ever run that. But you actually have a third option with this setup also. 3) Put two level ups into both dex and con to qualify for combat archery and epic toughness. You end up with a total of 4 less DC's than the OP (1 sorc PL, 2 level ups, 1 ESF evo), so you are really sacrificing casting ability to max out ranged and survivability. You would have a final base HP of 662. Personally I wouldn't want to sacrifice casting ability to this degree. The second option is a nice balance IMO, as casting ability is not completely useless, survivability is sufficient, and ranged dps is solid. I would say those are your options. You've just got to decide what will fit your goals and balance accordingly. Hope that helps.

[jakeelala]

Yeah I've got 47 DC on tactical detonation with ship buffs. This is just a rough estimate but I'd say it works maybe half the time in EE, which for me isn't nearly enough. If something saves against my spells in EH, I'm surprised. But in EE I usually won't even bother.



I just finished the cloak last night and am seeing blade barrier hits for more like 400 now with crits hitting for 800-900. I'd really like to work in an impulse item but haven't figured out how to swap the gear around yet. And yes, I am jealous you have a Needle. I actually just started doing CitW last week, but have already heard about the rarity of Needle. Hopefully I will have similar luck.

PS: If I'm doing a lot of BB'ing (no other BB'er in the party or they aren't casting, solo'ing, etc) I put on my Impulse 102 hat of alertness. Big bubba BB's are fun.

Also, A LOT of people forget that the bracelet of madness from hound has Arcane Lore on it (and greater Evo Focus). It's basically a mini version of the dragon cloak if you have one laying around. This is mostly relevant to the discussion of not using Lucid Dreams, like in favor of Toven's for lots of AoE goodness

[wax_on_wax_off]

Kinetic Lore does affect BB I'm almost certain, this was changed recently.

So, why no Toven spec? It's still the strongest rune arm in the game when you consider it does AoE shots and can be loaded with +2 ins int and sp regen. I mentioned corruption of nature as it seems all the rage at the moment.

I'd still look for at least 3 ranks in W&SM. If you're not using it enough that's your fault, not anyone else's, and fix that by looking for more opportunities such as running EE raids where scroll healing is more useful. Besides that there's no reason not to run any EH quest without a healer and just throw a scroll occasionally and have moderately self sufficient party members, I do this on my archer without qualms (even healed EH DA without scrolls by going healing specced with ED and twists).

[CThruTheEgo]

PS: If I'm doing a lot of BB'ing (no other BB'er in the party or they aren't casting, solo'ing, etc) I put on my Impulse 102 hat of alertness. Big bubba BB's are fun.

That's a good idea to swap to impulse as needed. I have both a ring and hat with impulse 102. Hat is a good swap slot for this because once you use up the sp, ConOp isn't a huge bonus. Although I do hate the UMD lag that always happens when I remove it.

Also, A LOT of people forget that the bracelet of madness from hound has Arcane Lore on it (and greater Evo Focus). It's basically a mini version of the dragon cloak if you have one laying around. This is mostly relevant to the discussion of not using Lucid Dreams, like in favor of Toven's for lots of AoE goodness

I was actually using the bracelet of madness before I got the dragon cloak. I've gotten around the -5% sp from Lucid Dreams by just swapping it out when I rest or before a quest. There is also the Mindfury Symbiont that drops from In the Flesh that gives greater arcane lore, this might be good to use with an upgraded Toven's as you would only lose one int point but gain greater lore.

[CThruTheEgo]

Kinetic Lore does affect BB I'm almost certain, this was changed recently.

Got a link? This is the first I have heard of this change. I don't see anything about it on the wiki, but that isn't always 100% up to date.

So, why no Toven spec? It's still the strongest rune arm in the game when you consider it does AoE shots and can be loaded with +2 ins int and sp regen. I mentioned corruption of nature as it seems all the rage at the moment.

No Toven's spec because no Toven's. I have seen this raid run maybe twice in the last few months so I'm not expecting to acquire one anytime soon. I've already said that I could see an argument for investing in the electric line for Toven's. The SP regen and an AoE shot would be nice, but the +2 insightful int is redundant and max DC's was a main goal of mine with this build. As I've mentioned before, if I get a Toven's I will probably respec to 7/1/1 in both force and electric. But until then, those points are better spent maxing out the force line.

I'd still look for at least 3 ranks in W&SM. If you're not using it enough that's your fault, not anyone else's, and fix that by looking for more opportunities such as running EE raids where scroll healing is more useful. Besides that there's no reason not to run any EH quest without a healer and just throw a scroll occasionally and have moderately self sufficient party members, I do this on my archer without qualms (even healed EH DA without scrolls by going healing specced with ED and twists).

I think you misunderstand. It's not that I don't get use out of the enhancement line. It's that tier2 is enough. I never said that I don't ever throw scrolls. I have jumped into the healer role many times in both EH and EE when 1) the healer was down and needed a minute to get it together, 2) there was no healer and the group needed help to pull through a situation, or 3) the healer was simply doing a poor job of healing and the group needed more help. I have found myself in situations like this in both raids and regular questing. I enjoy adapting to the situation as needed, that's my playstyle, which is why I play a class as versatile as the artificer. In any situation where I have had to take the scroll healer role, W&SM2 did the job just fine. If it works well enough at tier2, why would I invest in it further?

I don't think we are going to agree on this, and that's OK because we are allowed to do what works for each of us. That is the beauty of this game, you can build your character to suit your personal goals and playstyle. If maxing out W&SM suits you, more power to ya. For me, higher than tier2 simply isn't necessary and max force line is a better investment.

An interesting coincidence actually, two nights ago I was asked to be the tank healer (first time ever!) in an EH LoB. A 1200 HP WF paladin was pretty easy to keep up. I only used a quickened recon once when he got out of range and was getting pretty low. I was throwing recon scrolls the rest of the time, which healed him for a little less than half his hp. And tier2 was sufficient enough to get me a compliment from him when we completed.

[Nodoze]

... I would say those are your options. You've just got to decide what will fit your goals and balance accordingly. Hope that helps.

Wow. Very solid analysis and really appreciate you taking the time to give pros/cons & insights based upon actual playing of the build. I think I intuitively was already moving toward your balanced recommendation "2) put two level up points into dex and take combat archery but lose a total of 2 DC's (one from sorc PL and one from two level up points). With the first option your ranged suffers, and with the second your casting ability suffers. But since I'm not entirely content with the casting ability in EE content as it is, and this is what you will be primarily running, I would probably go with the second option for your build. Your casting ability with the second option will still be sufficient for EH content if you ever run that."

Since I made this guy 16 really quickly right before the stones disappeared I am not 100% sure where my level ups went to but my base stats (with level ups at level 16) currently are:
str8
dex17(16+1?)
con16
int21(18+3?)
wis6
cha6
==
I will plan on doing my remaining level up on Dex to get Combat Archery and try this route. Talking to the guys they also run EH&EN when short folks or group is missing key folk for EE so this seems to be a good balance. Either way no big deal as I believe I still have a free lesser reincarnate on this toon &/or can drop a heart on him. Thanks again (gave +1 rep) !

[CThruTheEgo]

Wow. Very solid analysis and really appreciate you taking the time to give pros/cons & insights based upon actual playing of the build.

Glad to help out. I should mention (in case you are not already aware) last I heard combat archery is currently broken. It only applies the 2 dodge. Given that LR's are also broken, however, I didn't want to risk losing ED xp so I just stuck with it. And besides, Turbine fixes stuff eventually, hehe.

Thanks for the rep and enjoy the build.

EDIT: Here is a link to the testing on combat archery if you are interested. I also did not see anything about this getting fixed in any recent release notes.
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=391816

[Korban_Dallas]

I read through most of the thread but I did see which Planar Focus you went with? there are two with Int. 3

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Focus_of_Subterfuge

or

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Planar_Focus_of_Erudition

also, Thanks for this thread.

[Splotto]

Hello:

Thanks for the build and the discussion. Thanks for all the replies.

I am getting ready to plow through my arti life now and I like this build alot. I like WF for the self-healing but I also like human/h-elf for some of my gear (frozen tunic, etc). I will probably go WF though.

I won't be staying at endgame with this build, just leveling. Are there any changes/tweaks anyone recommends for this build if getting to 20 is your only goal?

Thanks.

[CThruTheEgo]

I read through most of the thread but I did see which Planar Focus you went with? there are two with Int. 3

I actually have both, but I do not yet have Needle. I figured I would keep erudition on before questing and shrining for the extra sp and then swap back to it when I expect to use a lot of blade barriers, but run around with subterfuge the rest of the time for the extra sneak attack damage and dodge. Also, Eardweller adds 25 psionic spell power for a total of three minutes, so if you plan on using that then erudition only offers a little extra sp. As with so many other aspects of this build it just depends on whether you want to emphasize casting or ranged ability.

Glad you are enjoying the thread. And awesome name btw, great movie.

I am getting ready to plow through my arti life now and I like this build alot. I like WF for the self-healing but I also like human/h-elf for some of my gear (frozen tunic, etc). I will probably go WF though.

I won't be staying at endgame with this build, just leveling. Are there any changes/tweaks anyone recommends for this build if getting to 20 is your only goal?

This is definitely an arti built for endgame. I think I would make a lot of changes if I was going to TR immediately at 20. The playstyle of an artificer really changes throughout the leveling process. Ranged dps is primary through most of the heroic leveling process. Casting ability really starts to be effective when you get blade barrier, which is level 15 at the earliest. So with this in mind, I would probably go helf over WF. The extreme survivability that WF offers isn't really needed until late game. Cure/repair serious pots will be sufficient until you can effectively switch to scrolls, around levels 12-15, which will then get you through to 20. For most heroic content a quickened reconstruct (which is the biggest advantage that WF offers) simply isn't necessary. Helf, on the other hand, will provide better ranged dps from rogue dil. Since ranged is the primary focus, I would keep all of the ranged feats.

The casting ability of an artificer, which this build emphasizes, does not reach its most powerful until very late in leveling. If you are going straight from 18-20 and then TRing immediately, you will only have 2 level 6 spell slots. Blade barrier, tactical detonation, and deadly weapons are pretty much must haves for any arti with enough spell slots to have them all. Reconstruct is only useful for WF and again, isn't really even needed for heroic levels. So the first level 6 spell I would get at 15 would probably be blade barrier. The second spell obtained at level 16 would probably be switched between tactical detonation and deadly weapons as needed. I would probably keep maximize and empower for blade barrier. The spell focus feats are not as important during heroic levels but will still be of benefit, mostly from having mobs save less often against your damage spells. You get prismatic strike at the earliest at level 12 which offers a single target CC option and would also benefit from the spell focus feats.

Since TRing at 20 you don't need to build for epic feats, so you could adjust the starting stats as well. Insightful reflexes is also not really needed as your big boost to int happens from epic gear and epic destiny. And the dog is more useful at lower levels, in my opinion, so I would fit in augment summoning as well. I'll list below the starting stats and feat order I would take if building an arti just for a TR, assuming a 36 point build (adjust con down if a 34 or 32 pt build). Put all level up points into int, unless you do not have a +3 dex tome, then put one level up point into dex at level 12.

Half-elf
str8
dex16
con16
int18
wis8
cha8

Feats:
1 augment summoning
3 point blank shot
4a rapid shot
6 toughness
8a precise shot
9 maximize
12 spell focus evo
12a imp crit ranged
15 improved precise shot
16a empower
18 gr spell focus evo

I prefer to take the ranged feats as early as possible, though some would advocate maximize/empower sooner to use with blast rod. It just depends on your playstyle and what you want the character to do. I haven't used precision so I can't speak from experience with it, although I will say I have my doubts about its usefulness for heroic level content.

Anyway, I hope that helps. Glad you are enjoying the discussion.

[wax_on_wax_off]

For leveling purposes I'd take quicken by 6 to lay down flame turret with greater ease.

[CThruTheEgo]

For leveling purposes I'd take quicken by 6 to lay down flame turret with greater ease.

Yeah some would go for this option also, but I never found flame turret to be a problem without quicken, and I wouldn't bother with quicken on a non-WF personally. But if not building for endgame then you've got a lot of flexibility with feats so its not a big deal to fit it in.

[wax_on_wax_off]

Yeah some would go for this option also, but I never found flame turret to be a problem without quicken, and I wouldn't bother with quicken on a non-WF personally. But if not building for endgame then you've got a lot of flexibility with feats so its not a big deal to fit it in.

If you don't take it you need to slot a concentration item - this is what I usually do but if it's just for a PL then quicken - at least until you get Blade Barrier (could swap it out for precise shot before leveling to 15 and taking IPS maybe) - is a definite win I think.

[Splotto]

Thanks for the replies. I am looking forward to this life.

Thanks.

[QuantumFX]

Got a link? This is the first I have heard of this change. I don't see anything about it on the wiki, but that isn't always 100% up to date.

For some reason the forum won’t let me quote THIS.