Dubbell O'Seven - casting/ranged focused artificer

[CThruTheEgo]

...snip...

Thanks for the feedback Loriac. The only other feat worth taking is precision. It can be argued that both are only of marginal benefit, so it's really a personal choice between better spell or ranged dps. I'm taking empower at level 12 as a regular feat so that I can swap it out for precision and decide between the two from my own experience, which is also why maximize is taken at level 20.

[CThruTheEgo]

The triple cooldown is only for defensive stances (combat expertise, resilience, etc.)

Precision is an offensive stance and does not increase cooldowns. I keep it on 100% of the time for my artificer with 9d6+13 SA damage.

I didn't think the triple cooldown applied to precision, but I also did not realize it was only for defensive stances. Good to know for sure that this does not apply. Thanks FooWonk.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I didn't think the triple cooldown applied to precision, but I also did not realize it was only for defensive stances. Good to know for sure that this does not apply. Thanks FooWonk.

With Shadowdancer you can have up to 6d6+13 sneak attack (34 average/hit) and temporarily remove enemies immunity to sneak attack if they have it on vorpal hits. Therefore, on any enemy with 25% or more fortification Precision will likely add 34*.25=8.5 sneak attack damage/hit. This applies to warforged, raid bosses, undead, constructs, elementals etc.

The additional crits are also important. Against 100% fort foes your crossbow goes from 23/20 critical profile to 19/20, with precision it goes back up to 20/20 which is a 5.3% DPS increase on your first number damage.

Finally, the +5% to hit will matter most of the time as AB is usually lower as you use Insightful Damage and don't have class/race based sneak attack bonuses to hit. It isn't affected by diminishing returns either as it moves the curve rather than slides along it much like proficiency and PBS bonuses.

Precision is a very important feat on any ranged character.

[jakeelala]

So I wanted to throw out an update.

I have capped my WF Arty 20 (Deflection, on Khyber).

I bought a +8 Int Stoneheart of the AH for 300k plat last week (this week they're 1.5mil, what happened???)

Also my first run through the demonweb flagging quests I pulled a +3 Int Planar crystal. I've never had such luck in my whole life.

Anyway, I've now capped Draconic Incarnation, Shiradi Champion, and I'm wokring through Shadow Dancer.

My DC's are 44 to 45 for Tactical and BB and Prismatic. It's AWESOME. I am doing consistent CC in EE content everyday. I'm thrilled with the builds performance. I currently twist +3 Evo DC's no matte what ED I'm leveling from Magister. Since I still dont have a lot of fate points, I'm also twisting +6 reflex saves as well (Tier 1, magister or shadowdancer I think I cant remember).

If I had to sum up, I would say for XP zerging, or in a really good group, and challenges, draconic is the way to go. The burst DPS is INSANE. I am regularly bursting for 2-4k a pop. My energy vortex hits for 2-400 every few seconds, and draging breath seems to average 1500-2500. I've maxed Arty fire spell power, and put a point or two into the crit enhancement lines for fire too.

This gives me great damage on all my spells and ED abilities while in Draconic. When not in Draconic, I still get a great boost to Arty fire spell damage. With a cloak of flames, I'm extremely happy about damage. Also the wings are awesome, and the DC is 51 on the knowckdown. I do strongly feel the vortex and burst need their cooldowns lowered significantly. Wiz and Sorcs get SLA's that do as much damage and they can spam them like mad. I'm not asking for a 5sp SLA with all metamagics on a 2 second cooldown. But a minute or two between ED Draconic abilities is ridiculous. This is THE sorc destiny.

Moving on: shiradi is awesome too. I don't see it proccing that much on my Evocation spells which is disturbing. I like bunch mobs up and drop a BB and a tactical, and I'm not noticing the procs much compared to my repeater, but maybe I'm just not being thorough enough in checking. I think Shiradi is the Arty destiny for long, hard EE quests and raids. You'll run out of SP and dragon breaths in Draconic after abou 15-20 minutes, and they're hard to use on raid bosses or lots of red named like in Caught in the Web. Shiradi would shine in these instances I believe. But for good old room clearing in sane power, go Draconic.

This brings us to Shadowdancer. I'm sad to say I don't have a lot of experience with it yet. I'm only barely level 3. And it really gets good at level 5 with evasion and Consume. I guess this one is more like SHiradi: it 's SP-less benefits make it suitable for an Arty trying to do damage to A LOT OF MOBS over A LONG TIME. Again, longer EE quests and raids come to mind. Shiradi is general DPS increases, while Shadowdancer will increase your DC's (if you use the INT) and give you evasion. There aren't a lot of places where I feel like I NEED evasion with 40 reflex and 600HP, but I'm sure I just don't know what I'm missing. I'll report back once I've had evasion for a few a days.

[CThruTheEgo]

So I wanted to throw out an update...

Thanks for the update jakeelala. I TR'ed from sorc to arti last Friday but then came down with the plague and haven't played much. Still level 6 atm.

I've recently heard from another poster on here that the magister evocation specialist and draconic incarnation precise casting bonuses do not stack. Said they tried it on their druid and DC's were only showing the +3 from magister. I don't know yet if that was in the spell description or combat log, but further confirmation on whether or not these stack is still needed. Since heroic enhancements don't necessarily stack, it wouldn't surprise me if epic enhancements didn't either. But imo, epic destiny enhancements should all work together for the sake of variability and creativity alone, not to mention the amount of work required to gain the fate points to twist several different abilities. And after all, they are supposed to make our characters "epic," aren't they?

I've still got a ways to go before I'm able to test this myself so if you are able to, I'd be very grateful for some testing to confirm this. I'll probably start a new thread today to see if anyone has actually tested this and I'll update here if I find anything else out.

Thanks again for the update and glad you are enjoying the build.

[jakeelala]

ill test it now. im pretty sure they're stacking

My BB DC at 25 in Shiradi with 42 Int, no Evo DC twists: DC 37

Draconic, 46 Int, and precise evocation: DC 41 (+2 DC Draconic and +2 DC from 4 Int)

Draconic, 46 Int, with precise Evo AND Magister Evo SPecialist (+3 DC) twisted: DC 44.

CONFIRMED: Stacking of Magister and Draconic DC.

[CThruTheEgo]

ill test it now. im pretty sure they're stacking

My BB DC at 25 in Shiradi with 42 Int, no Evo DC twists: DC 37

Draconic, 46 Int, and precise evocation: DC 41 (+2 DC Draconic and +2 DC from 4 Int)

Draconic, 46 Int, with precise Evo AND Magister Evo SPecialist (+3 DC) twisted: DC 44.

CONFIRMED: Stacking of Magister and Draconic DC.

Very good news! Thanks jakeelala. So if they stack when one is coming from the primary destiny, then there's no reason they shouldn't stack if they're both twisted. Thanks for testing this.

[Loriac]

So I wanted to throw out an update.

I have capped my WF Arty 20 (Deflection, on Khyber).

...

This brings us to Shadowdancer. I'm sad to say I don't have a lot of experience with it yet. I'm only barely level 3. And it really gets good at level 5 with evasion and Consume. I guess this one is more like SHiradi: it 's SP-less benefits make it suitable for an Arty trying to do damage to A LOT OF MOBS over A LONG TIME. Again, longer EE quests and raids come to mind. Shiradi is general DPS increases, while Shadowdancer will increase your DC's (if you use the INT) and give you evasion. There aren't a lot of places where I feel like I NEED evasion with 40 reflex and 600HP, but I'm sure I just don't know what I'm missing. I'll report back once I've had evasion for a few a days.

I'm very interested to hear your feedback on SD. My intention is to have my main be an Arti with 3xPL Sorc (working on the final sorc life atm), and after looking at the various EDs, I came to the conclusion that SD may well offer the best offense and defence for an arti. Specifically, whilst the SC dps increases look great (2d100 force per shot @ 7% likelihood etc) once you adjust for expected damage, you end up around 20-25 damage per shot. SD meanwhile gives 6d6 SA, plus the additional ranged damage for the epic moment. Overall, it seems to me that SD should in theory give a similar dps boost to SC, with each being better/worse than the other on a situational basis.

Where SD shines I think is in the defensive capabilities - shadow form, increased dodge, lithe (particularly good for wf artis imo). As far as I can tell, no other ED tree offers similar defensive benefits for the arti.

When I did a theoretical allocation of points into the tree, I came to the conclusion that I'd be able to afford at most 2 stat increases (and my preference would be to take just 1). I'd be interested to hear any feedback on consume, as I suspect that whilst it sounds better than the epic moment on paper, in practice its not really all that great (DCs etc. apparently quite low). The epic moment meanwhile, whilst being quite meh for a melee character, offers ranged characters an extra 3d6 aoe damage per shot for 30 secs - this looks like it adds up to a fair amount of damage, say around 150d6 to all mobs hit by the aoe in a best case scenario (not counting the 2d6 per shot to the primary target).

[Valiance]

Looking forward to updates of this thread. Great info here.

One question I have; do the levels of artificer you get from Draconic and Magister add directly to rune arm damage? i.e. will I be doing a d25 on those if you have those epic destinies? If so then I don't see how Draconic can be beat.

V

[Valiance]

Also what do you guys think about this gear layout for a Arti very similar to the one in the OP:


Goggles- Green Steel Conc Op
Helm- Green Steel +45 hp, hvy fort
Neck- Verik’s and swap (Noxious grtr arcane lore, torc)
Trinket- Litany
Cloak- Cloak of Wolf Exc Seeker 5, Dodge 4%, Attack +4 Diversion 20
Belt- Con 6 of Dodge 2% Large Guild slot (+80 sp) (Cannith Crafted)
Ring1- Stalker (seeker 6, exc sneak 2/4, manslayer, ghostly, exc int 1,)
Ring2- Seal of Avithol (Dex7, sneak 5/8, exc sneak 3/5, improve deception)
Gloves- Greater Evocation of good luck +2 (large guild slot +20 hp) (Cannith Crafted)
Docent- +8 int, res 6, protection 6, toughness
Boots- Rock boots (spr acid lore, stone guard, earth grab guard, acid res 10, grtr false life (slot), +1 exc con (slot))
Rune Arm- Corrosion 114, potency 76, rough hide 6, insight int 3

To me that gear layout should be incredible dps. Seeker +11, Sneak of 10attack/17dmg, very high int, and my guy has mithral body feat and it gives very nice AC as well.

My thought would be this character would switch back and forth between Draconic, Shiradi and Shadow Dancer. The improved deception allows sneak attack to work more often, and the combination of the new Acid Rune Arm with Rock boots should give great damage. I of course will use force rune arm as well situationally.

Thoughts?

[jakeelala]

Also what do you guys think about this gear layout for a Arti very similar to the one in the OP:


Goggles- Green Steel Conc Op
Helm- Green Steel +45 hp, hvy fort
Neck- Verik’s and swap (Noxious grtr arcane lore, torc)
Trinket- Litany
Cloak- Cloak of Wolf Exc Seeker 5, Dodge 4%, Attack +4 Diversion 20
Belt- Con 6 of Dodge 2% Large Guild slot (+80 sp) (Cannith Crafted)
Ring1- Stalker (seeker 6, exc sneak 2/4, manslayer, ghostly, exc int 1,)
Ring2- Seal of Avithol (Dex7, sneak 5/8, exc sneak 3/5, improve deception)
Gloves- Greater Evocation of good luck +2 (large guild slot +20 hp) (Cannith Crafted)
Docent- +8 int, res 6, protection 6, toughness
Boots- Rock boots (spr acid lore, stone guard, earth grab guard, acid res 10, grtr false life (slot), +1 exc con (slot))
Rune Arm- Corrosion 114, potency 76, rough hide 6, insight int 3

To me that gear layout should be incredible dps. Seeker +11, Sneak of 10attack/17dmg, very high int, and my guy has mithral body feat and it gives very nice AC as well.

My thought would be this character would switch back and forth between Draconic, Shiradi and Shadow Dancer. The improved deception allows sneak attack to work more often, and the combination of the new Acid Rune Arm with Rock boots should give great damage. I of course will use force rune arm as well situationally.

Thoughts?

With acid draconic that could be pretty nice. I really need noxious embers though because I still use lucid dreams for arcane lore. I've just recently twisted energy burst (fire + cloak of flames) because its just too good. Of course I don't have room for anymore twists but I don't really care. Your gear looks fine. Personally I prefer the new PDK set with raid Xbow for end gear though. +3/3 is rad.

[Valiance]

Ya I really like the seeker 11 combined with the x3 crit of the new raid repeater. Also I don't want to use up my docent slot to try make the set bonus. It is nice but just uses up too many slots for me.

Do you know if the arcane destinies add 5 levels of dmg to rune arms or do they cap out at 20. I'll be able to test this pretty soon but am curious about that.

[jakeelala]

Ya I really like the seeker 11 combined with the x3 crit of the new raid repeater. Also I don't want to use up my docent slot to try make the set bonus. It is nice but just uses up too many slots for me.

Do you know if the arcane destinies add 5 levels of dmg to rune arms or do they cap out at 20. I'll be able to test this pretty soon but am curious about that.

I definitely bigger numbers on my rune in draconic vs shiradi

[CThruTheEgo]

Sorry I haven't responded to the thread in a while. I've been busy leveling up the build and just hit 20 last night.

I used a stone of experience to level and noted previously that the feats may not be ideal for playing out those levels. So I updated the OP with what I would have done without a stone of xp since those are no longer available. Regarding enhancements, now that healer's friend is fixed and cheaper, I will be dropping toughness3 to pick up healer's friend1 and 2. The character planner does not yet reflect the cheaper cost of healer's friend so I just added a note below the build.

I also adjusted the gear a bit. The adamantine cloak of the dragon boosts blade barrier and rune arm spell power by 34 over what the previous gear layout offered, as well as providing spell focus mastery2 and stealth strike. This also frees up the neck slot. Dropping the epic cloak of flames means losing 2 epic slots, however. So I put the GS Min2 HP item in the neck slot and crafted a health6 of GFL belt with large guild slotted HP. The dragon cloak also trumps the spell power benefit of the archaic device, so I chose to use lucid dreams which gives arcane lore. All of this results in a net gain of 4 spell power to tactical detonation/prismatic strike (meh), 34 spell power to blade barrier/rune arm (yes please!), stealth strike, arcane lore, and 10 more HP after dropping toughness3 as noted above. It loses cha6, efficient metamagic maximize2, superior fire lore, insight AC4, fire absorption20%, fire shield hot, and inherent fire resistance10. IMO, the gains only further emphasize the strengths of the build while the losses are negligible.

I'm very interested to hear your feedback on SD. My intention is to have my main be an Arti with 3xPL Sorc (working on the final sorc life atm), and after looking at the various EDs, I came to the conclusion that SD may well offer the best offense and defence for an arti. Specifically, whilst the SC dps increases look great (2d100 force per shot @ 7% likelihood etc) once you adjust for expected damage, you end up around 20-25 damage per shot. SD meanwhile gives 6d6 SA, plus the additional ranged damage for the epic moment. Overall, it seems to me that SD should in theory give a similar dps boost to SC, with each being better/worse than the other on a situational basis.

Where SD shines I think is in the defensive capabilities - shadow form, increased dodge, lithe (particularly good for wf artis imo). As far as I can tell, no other ED tree offers similar defensive benefits for the arti.

I had a similar thought that the sneak attack damage of shadowdancer may be comparable to what shiradi offers, though I haven't gone through the numbers to really compare. And I would definitely agree with the defensive benefits of shadowdancer.

When I did a theoretical allocation of points into the tree, I came to the conclusion that I'd be able to afford at most 2 stat increases (and my preference would be to take just 1). I'd be interested to hear any feedback on consume, as I suspect that whilst it sounds better than the epic moment on paper, in practice its not really all that great (DCs etc. apparently quite low). The epic moment meanwhile, whilst being quite meh for a melee character, offers ranged characters an extra 3d6 aoe damage per shot for 30 secs - this looks like it adds up to a fair amount of damage, say around 150d6 to all mobs hit by the aoe in a best case scenario (not counting the 2d6 per shot to the primary target).

Regarding the stat increases, personally, one of the reasons I chose shadowdancer was to be able to max int. I intended this build to be very caster focused. DC's are not as important for blade barrier (though still very handy) as they are for tactical detonation, and I intended CC through tactical to be a key feature of this build. You do mention, however, that you will have 3 sorc PL's, so you can probably afford to not max int out and still keep your DC's quite high. As a side note related to the casting focus of the build, I think the lack of int enhancements in shiradi is a real weakness of that destiny for an arti, but again, with 3 sorc PL's you are probably in a much better position to use shiradi and not have your DC's suffer. Regarding the epic moment, keep in mind that it deals unholy damage which, according to wiki, only affects good aligned mobs. Given the number of good enemies in the game I have some serious doubts about the value of this epic moment. And yeah, last I heard consume works but is extremely ineffective. Hopefully something will be done about this.

Do you know if the arcane destinies add 5 levels of dmg to rune arms or do they cap out at 20. I'll be able to test this pretty soon but am curious about that.

I haven't tested this myself yet, but I do have magister up to level 4 so I can let you know after I do some testing. Also Valiance, I don't have time atm to review the gear layout you posted. At a glance, it looks pretty good, but I will go over it in greater detail when I have more time.

[CThruTheEgo]

Just wanted to provide an update on the build, I'm loving it.

Epic Destiny: I have shadowdancer maxed out and enough fate points to keep evocation specialist and precise casting twisted in. I need one more fate point and I will twist in brace for impact to be able to use yugo pots with no fort penalty. I am still working my way over to shiradi so can't comment on that one yet, but I am very pleased with shadowdancer. The bonuses to int provide awesome DC's and being able to have evasion when needed is awesome.

Survivability: I tanked VoD elite last night with this build. Our tank said something about lag as soon as we got in and just stood there. A few others tried getting his agro but couldn't hold it once the other dps started on him. He kept coming after me so I just went with it. I pulled him into the corner, blasted the rune arm as fast as it would charge, and spammed quickened reconstructs on myself. I had no problem holding agro and noticed after we completed that shadowdancer threat reduction was active the whole time, so our dps was definitely weak, but I was able to keep myself alive enough to pull us through it. This is definitely an argument in favor of the superiority of quickened reconstructs over scroll healing. I have been in countless other situations where a quickened recon saved me and the party and a scroll would not have cut it at all. For epic elite content there is no way you are making a concentration check through that damage. So if ultimate survivability is your goal, WF and quickened recons are the way to go for this build.

Gear: Almost finished with the gear. The cloak grind is horrible. I realized that trading the smoke goggles and avithoul seal for tharne's goggles and the stalker ring with 7 dex slotted gave me true seeing, ghostly, spot15, and search15 while only giving up improved deception. Tharne's is the reason I have been running VoD lately. The new boots from U16 (if they make it to live) will negate the need to slot 7 dex in the stalker ring and save a lot of token grinding. I have not yet seen what higher level versions of these boots offer so they may change other gearing as well.

Max Force Enhancements: I'm also very happy I went the full 7/6/6 in the force line. Rune arm and blade barrier crits are very common. Force rune arm hits for 200-300 per shot with crits in the 400-600 range. Highest rune arm hit I've seen has been over 1000. Blade barrier hits for about 350 average with crits common for 600-800. Highest blade barrier hit I've seen was over 1300. With the high DC's even evasion mobs hit the blade barrier a majority of the time. I have heard great things about the level 24 version of corruption of nature runearm but do not have one of these yet to test it out.

Crowd Control: The CC is also great up to EH content, very little saves against it. I was in an EH devil assault once where our CC person was not cutting it. So I started throwing tactical detonations as needed and we managed to pull through. A problem I have noticed with the CC for this build is that it is not persistent like dancing balls are. One shot from tactical and if the mobs aren't dead by the time they get up, or if more mobs show up, you have to throw another one. So it works in a pinch but I don't feel like I could join a group to fill a CC role. It also does not work in EE content, you need higher DC's than this build can achieve.

That's it for now. Will update again when there is more to say.

[jakeelala]

Just wanted to provide....

What are your tactical det DCs? I mines 47 in SD and I see it work a lot on EE, but certainly not 100%.

I am looking for a dragon cloak but the grind scares me. You will be jealous to learn that after 11 CiTWs I pulled a Needle

That Xbow is SICK.

Shiradi is huge fun but your defense sucks compared to 25% incorp and evasion with. 40+ reflex on sd. I like Shiradi for easy raids and easy content where damage incoming is low. EE I'm always in SD.

I have the lvl 23 rune arm and I'm not real impressed compared to tovens for AOE or targetting/force damage of lucid.

[Postumus]

Max Force Enhancements: I'm also very happy I went the full 7/6/6 in the force line. Rune arm and blade barrier crits are very common. Force rune arm hits for 200-300 per shot with crits in the 400-600 range. Highest rune arm hit I've seen has been over 1000. Blade barrier hits for about 350 average with crits common for 600-800. Highest blade barrier hit I've seen was over 1300. With the high DC's even evasion mobs hit the blade barrier a majority of the time. I have heard great things about the level 24 version of corruption of nature runearm but do not have one of these yet to test it out.

This for sure. Maxing force lines when using a force rune arm like lucid dreams or the FR one can do a sick amount of damage if you can get the shots to hit what you are aiming at. You also see tons of big crits with BB, tactical det, and prismatic ray.

With the arcane lore in the lucid dreams and a 9% force crit line (or from a shard/item) you are looking at crits 15% of the time. And generally big crits.

If I pull a corruption of nature I might try respeccing to acid just to see how it looks, but I'll still probably stick with force in the long run just because it boosts all of my main offensive spells and there are a LOT fewer mobs resistant to force than acid.

[wax_on_wax_off]

This for sure. Maxing force lines when using a force rune arm like lucid dreams or the FR one can do a sick amount of damage if you can get the shots to hit what you are aiming at. You also see tons of big crits with BB, tactical det, and prismatic ray.

With the arcane lore in the lucid dreams and a 9% force crit line (or from a shard/item) you are looking at crits 15% of the time. And generally big crits.

If I pull a corruption of nature I might try respeccing to acid just to see how it looks, but I'll still probably stick with force in the long run just because it boosts all of my main offensive spells and there are a LOT fewer mobs resistant to force than acid.

How significant are those last 10 AP though? You crit, what, 5% more often for 0.5 more damage? I definitely agree that crits are fun and bigger crits are funner but I'm not sure that it's the best allocation of scarce resources. I'd be interested to see how much real DPS it provides in a raid situation (continuous rune arm firing).

Alternatively, you could take those 10 AP and push a second line like lightning (for Toven's Hammer) or acid (for Corruption of Nature) to 7/1/1. This lets you have a choice of targeting 2 saves rather than only using the lower base damage, will based save Lucid Dreams. You can also pick up the torc effect on the upgraded Toven's for SP regen. I'd imagine that 7/1/1 in Toven's/Corruption of Nature ~= 7/6/6 in Lucid as long as saves aren't an issue due to the lower base damage (happy to see maths to support or refute this). Toven's also has the advantage of AoE splash (which is a huge advantage in some quests).

Finally, I'd want Wand and Scroll Mastery at least at rank III, if not IV. Arti's are the best scroll healers in the game and can provide a good portion of their raid DPS while doing so. Seems a no brainer to take up this job even if it isn't the most fun.

Edit: also when comparing rune arms consider that you can get superior acid/lightning lore on boots, bracers or helm while can't think of many sources of superior kinetic lore that won't cost DPS.

[jakeelala]

How significant are those last 10 AP though? You crit, what, 5% more often for 0.5 more damage? I definitely agree that crits are fun and bigger crits are funner but I'm not sure that it's the best allocation of scarce resources. I'd be interested to see how much real DPS it provides in a raid situation (continuous rune arm firing).

Alternatively, you could take those 10 AP and push a second line like lightning (for Toven's Hammer) or acid (for Corruption of Nature) to 7/1/1. This lets you have a choice of targeting 2 saves rather than only using the lower base damage, will based save Lucid Dreams. You can also pick up the torc effect on the upgraded Toven's for SP regen. I'd imagine that 7/1/1 in Toven's/Corruption of Nature ~= 7/6/6 in Lucid as long as saves aren't an issue due to the lower base damage (happy to see maths to support or refute this). Toven's also has the advantage of AoE splash (which is a huge advantage in some quests).

Finally, I'd want Wand and Scroll Mastery at least at rank III, if not IV. Arti's are the best scroll healers in the game and can provide a good portion of their raid DPS while doing so. Seems a no brainer to take up this job even if it isn't the most fun.

Edit: also when comparing rune arms consider that you can get superior acid/lightning lore on boots, bracers or helm while can't think of many sources of superior kinetic lore that won't cost DPS.

You can put superior lore on the rune arms themselves if they're craftable (which Lucid is)

[wax_on_wax_off]

You can put superior lore on the rune arms themselves if they're craftable (which Lucid is)

Can't craft superior lore.