Dubbell O'Seven - casting/ranged focused artificer

[Singular]

I would agree with Singular. For an LR+20 past life I'd go ranger. Sorcs are probably the easiest class to level so if you still want the DCs you can get them quickly. Also, DCs are becoming less useful with every update and level increase. They are still important, but nothing beats raw dps atm.

I am on my last caster life before going back to my fav, artie I was going to pound out 3 more monk lives and two more rogue lives, or think about completionist, but I was like "nope. Too much work."

But, wow, with those extra DC's being a sorc is a monster. Squishy, but I CC every living thing through evocation spells, then kill them. I was in a group with another sorcerer - he said "playing a sorc is tough!" I was like...uh...I have 103 kill counts to your 5. And I've tripled the entire group's added together. So, ha!

But the reality is, we get the same results with arties, and the traps. hee, hee, hee

[CThruTheEgo]

Spell focus mastery no longer stacks with <school> focus items. So I have updated the gear once again.

[Singular]

The master engineer capstone adds 3 to your weapons enhancement bonus, giving Needle a total of +11 for a 33 implement bonus. The other core enhancements add 2 if you don't have the capstone.

Hey, I just got to lvl 24 and tested this out - it doesn't work. Fully upgraded Needle only provides 24 spell power, despite that the BA bonus is showing on it - it should be providing 33 as you write, but it's not.

The rune arm is adding 40, and the dog is adding 6 (I only have it to the 2nd tier). I'm thinking about either changing it to 10 by dropping my lessened cost to Empower, or dropping the dog altogether as it basically just dies in EE content if anything glances at it.

I don't know if this is WAI and I haven't bug reported it. Thoughts?

Regarding Ruin (the 500 untyped damage epic feat), it sounds nice but it costs 75 spell points. That's absurd imo, especially considering that the average base damage of boulder toss is 500, it is also affected by force spell power, and it costs 0 spell points to use. I decided to boost my acid spell power since I use Corruption of Nature and energy burst acid so often. I'm not level 28 yet, but I'm looking forward to trying out Hellball, that sounds tasty.

In EE content, I usually use Tac/det, BB and mostly Rejuvenation Cocoon. So I don't usually run out of SP that fast - Boulder Toss, EF, Adrenaline Shots and a lot of Rejuvenation. I'm thinking about taking Ruin to have a second BT. I'm only lvl 24 atm, but will let you know.

Have you tried out Hellball yet? Or any new info on Ruin?

I twisted in Reign, from Fatesinger. It's a longer hp buff than RC and stacks, providing a bit more life, but I mainly did it to try to boost the dps output of my xbow - not so good. It's not affected by spellpower (I have around 200 sonic and 300 kinetic, so I was hoping) - and so only produces around 210 damage on every 20, barely scratching the surface of most EH mobs let alone EE mobs. Not worth it from a DPS standpoint, maybe worth it to bolster RC.

[CThruTheEgo]

Hey, I just got to lvl 24 and tested this out - it doesn't work. Fully upgraded Needle only provides 24 spell power, despite that the BA bonus is showing on it - it should be providing 33 as you write, but it's not.

The rune arm is adding 40, and the dog is adding 6 (I only have it to the 2nd tier). I'm thinking about either changing it to 10 by dropping my lessened cost to Empower, or dropping the dog altogether as it basically just dies in EE content if anything glances at it.

I don't know if this is WAI and I haven't bug reported it. Thoughts?

That's disappointing. I haven't gone through to calculate my spell power and make sure everything is working as it should. Thanks for the info. I would guess this is not WAI, so I'd bug report. I'll do so myself the next time I'm on my arti.

Have you tried out Hellball yet? Or any new info on Ruin?

My arti is still only level 27 so no info on hellball. I haven't been playing him much because I've been leveling the assassin in my sig. I played my arti almost exclusively since MotU and, after accomplishing nearly every goal I had for him, I've just been getting a little bored and wanted to go back to a different playstyle for a while. But I'll definitely provide any feedback on hellball whenever I get around to capping Dubbell.

[Singular]

Hey,

So I tried Ruin out - love it! It's a second Boulder Toss - same damage numbers. Very handy. It basically allows you to zerg any EH quest. See annoying bad guy? Dead. You can take out the casters really fast. Also, and very happily, Ruin doesn't need you to be facing the target. If you hard target, and it walks right or left of you, Ruin goes off anyways - no annoying "you are not facing your target" box.

There are two downsides to it: first, it's a huge sp suck. It costs me 120 sp to use it (quickened, maximized and empowered), which means my sp runs out like crazy now. So in quests you know, it's great. In quests you don't know, you might have to watch the sp bar. Second, it slightly screws up how I use the rune arm/endless fulisade. Normally, I'd BT, fire, then EF. Now I ruin, BT, fire, and EF - that decreases the damage output from my rune arm. If you fire the rune arm more often, you lose spell power but gain in rune arm damage. I haven't quite worked out my "best practice" here. If I find that my dps is slowing down, I'll switch Ruin for Epic Spell Focus (which I didn't take - I now have 4 caster past lives, so it's not a huge deal, but I am missing out on that one DC. Currently, I can Tac/Det in EE and CC roughly 50-60% of mobs - insanely handy and even handier to do more - so it might be worth dropping Ruin for the DC, but I don't know yet and am having tons of fun with Ruin).

I'm almost 28 and will soon be doing mostly EE quests - so I'll let you know how effective it is then.

Re: Trapsmith's Xbow. It's second to Needle. With the Trapsmith's I get 800-900 normal crits in Fury and 1400's fairly often. With Needle, it's 1500 usually and 2500 sometimes. So Needle beats it. However, for anyone who doesn't have Needle, the Trapsmith's is relatively easy to get. It's on the AH for cheap.

Right now my Force spell power is 350 and I'm seeing BTs and Ruins crit for up to 6500. That's almost what I was getting pre-19, but not quite. I was getting the occasional crit of 8500. Has anyone else noticed this drop in damage output?

[Loriac]

Been on a break from DDO, but thinking of trying it out again. With all the changes to enhancements, I was hoping for a bit of advice from posters on this thread re: arties. I'm thinking of rebuilding my main (Cain on Cannith) back into an arty, but not sure on direction.

Pre enhancements changes, going pure arty was pretty much a given unless you really wanted evasion, largely due to the 4 L6 spells, and to a lesser extent, the L20 capstone. This led naturally to a build like 007, with fairly minimal changes to tailor to your own playstyle.

With the enhancements changes, I'm a bit puzzled whether or not L20 is worth it. My thinking is as follows: with the new SLAs, particularly blast rod, as well as much better mobility with runearms, reliance on the L6 damage spells is probably lessened (in particular, throwing out max'd/emp'd/quickened/heightened blast rods every 6s for effectively 5 spell points probably beats out any other damage spell an arty has). If you do go down the blast rod route for damage, then you're looking at being in close melee range. The new enhancements for bastard swords makes Nightmare a viable option to replace repeaters (not sure if there are better b.swords or daxes out there now though), and a str build with the haste boost should provide comparable damage at least to repeaters (I think - haven't tested this). If you're going melee, then evasion helps a lot as you can't rely on being far enough away to dodge spell effects as easily. This opens up the option of 2 rogue, and possibly even taking haste boost from thief acrobat to free up EF from arty (to give you a ranged 'back-up' option for when you didn't want to melee); you could also get a couple of extra SA dice from assassin and +2 to hit / +1 to damage with xbows from mechanic. The melee arty using bastard swords also gets far more out of fotw than a ranged arty would, and I suspect this build would be significantly more dps at epic levels.

Conversely, replicating the old L20 arty build requires major investment in the AT/BE trees - 41 pts in AT to get the old capstone, and at least 34 in BE to have top runearm capabilities. This looks to me like you take quite a hit on the racial enhancements.

So, my question is: is pure arty still worth it, and would you guys say that the 007 build is still better than a splash that brings in evasion?


Edit: I realised I referenced str builds for the b.sword, but I'm still assuming here an Int based build as insightful damage applies to b.swords. I suspect that when you reach epic levels, you'll end up defaulting to str even if you level up Int, purely because fotw allows for additional str from rage effects etc, hence my reference to str.

[Singular]

Been on a break from DDO, but thinking of trying it out again. With all the changes to enhancements, I was hoping for a bit of advice from posters on this thread re: arties. I'm thinking of rebuilding my main (Cain on Cannith) back into an arty, but not sure on direction.

Pre enhancements changes, going pure arty was pretty much a given unless you really wanted evasion, largely due to the 4 L6 spells, and to a lesser extent, the L20 capstone. This led naturally to a build like 007, with fairly minimal changes to tailor to your own playstyle.

With the enhancements changes, I'm a bit puzzled whether or not L20 is worth it. My thinking is as follows: with the new SLAs, particularly blast rod, as well as much better mobility with runearms, reliance on the L6 damage spells is probably lessened (in particular, throwing out max'd/emp'd/quickened/heightened blast rods every 6s for effectively 5 spell points probably beats out any other damage spell an arty has). If you do go down the blast rod route for damage, then you're looking at being in close melee range. The new enhancements for bastard swords makes Nightmare a viable option to replace repeaters (not sure if there are better b.swords or daxes out there now though), and a str build with the haste boost should provide comparable damage at least to repeaters (I think - haven't tested this). If you're going melee, then evasion helps a lot as you can't rely on being far enough away to dodge spell effects as easily. This opens up the option of 2 rogue, and possibly even taking haste boost from thief acrobat to free up EF from arty (to give you a ranged 'back-up' option for when you didn't want to melee); you could also get a couple of extra SA dice from assassin and +2 to hit / +1 to damage with xbows from mechanic. The melee arty using bastard swords also gets far more out of fotw than a ranged arty would, and I suspect this build would be significantly more dps at epic levels.

Conversely, replicating the old L20 arty build requires major investment in the AT/BE trees - 41 pts in AT to get the old capstone, and at least 34 in BE to have top runearm capabilities. This looks to me like you take quite a hit on the racial enhancements.

So, my question is: is pure arty still worth it, and would you guys say that the 007 build is still better than a splash that brings in evasion?


Edit: I realised I referenced str builds for the b.sword, but I'm still assuming here an Int based build as insightful damage applies to b.swords. I suspect that when you reach epic levels, you'll end up defaulting to str even if you level up Int, purely because fotw allows for additional str from rage effects etc, hence my reference to str.

Welcome back, Loriac! Your insightful posts were missed

Unless the player - like me - is trying to make a pure repeating artie build work, you're right, it's not the top dps or even survivability right now in epic (still rocks for heroic). With the new enhancements, you don't need as much investment in artie levels to gain access to the top tier enhancements - you could consider going only to level 12 artie, and take more rogue/fighter or rogue/something else.

You aren't going to be able to take tier 5 enhancements from both BE and AT trees. Taking one locks out the other. So if you go full SLAs, you're not going to be running at full speed with the rune arm up.

In full artie, I went 41 pts in BE, 36 in AT and 3 in human. That gives me full BE to tier 5 plus the capstone, a lot of trash in AT that gives me spell power (plus the useful int and spell criticals), and human damage boost plus either one point of int or con (I change this depending on where my int or con is at and what I need most on the fly). It's very close to what we had as pure artie before - I have something like 350 spell power in force (and that will go up when they fix the bug preventing Needle from being at +11 for spell power conferring benefits - currently, it's only giving +8).

However, I think you're correct. If you dropped Dex and went Int +Str build (enough level ups into Str to get to 23 to get overwhelming critical), you'd produce a higher dps melee than a regular artie w/xbow, not counting spells, Boulder Toss, etc). Given all the potential buffs to Str, and then add your Int, wow, I think you'd produce a ton of damage. If you go this route, I suggest TWFing rather than carrying a rune arm. Though, if you do carry a rune arm, you might want to consider Glass Cannon for the double imbue.

EDIT: I am mistaken about Insightful Damage. It would replace the str mod, not add to it. That sucks. So you'd be using either an str or int mod, not both. I guess that lets you use tac/det if you went to lvl 15, but it also allows you to only go to lvl 12 + other classes. That might max dps better.

If you don't TWF, you'll be like a sword and board, but with rune arm damage rather than shield damage. I don't know which would produce more dps output...but I have a feeling TWF is better. Mind you, you'd lose out on spell power. Anyways, bastard sword and dwarven axe are free now - it may be worth going Dwarven to keep your Con costs low.

Hmmm...I have a useless artie sitting gathering dust and I just may do this. A TWF build could be an artie/rogue/ranger split to get the free feats and a bit of healing (if fleshie).

[Loriac]

Hi Singular, thank you for your response.

I think I was unclear on the ap spend - blast rod is tier 4 in AT, so you don't need to lock out the BE tier 5. Lightning motes is a nice SLA in AT tier 5, but not worth the loss of the tier 5 runearm enhancements in BE imo.

I think runearm with bastard sword or daxe should beat out dual wielding tbh - the optimal split just based on reading ddo wiki seems to be tier 5 in BE (spending 41 ap for the capstone if pure, 34 ap if multiclassed), with tier 4 in AT giving access to blast rod sla for just 23 ap spent (though you'd probably spend a further 4 for the +1 Int and +1 spell crits. With this set up, you get the full power of a runearm in addition to the main hand weapon, and I think the runearm > offhand weapon damage. With TWF, you lose out on the additional spell power from the runearm (seems you can get +40 with charge at tier 5), making the runearm+1h weapon combo even more enticing.

Level 15 arty still seems worthwhile to me, for access to deadly weapons. If you're WF, level 16 arty (or perhaps Level 15 arty + bladeforged as they get reconstruct as an SLA) is needed I think.


However, rather than get into the ins and outs of a different build on CThru's thread, I guess if I was to summarise your comments, it would be that pure ranged/casting arty is still viable but its now debatable whether it beats out a melee artificer (or even an evasion splash version).

Do you find that stuff like tac det sticks on EE mobs in the latest content? I recall DCs being problematic for some EE content even in u17, so I'm curious how a pure arty fares in u19.

[CThruTheEgo]

Been on a break from DDO, but thinking of trying it out again. With all the changes to enhancements, I was hoping for a bit of advice from posters on this thread re: arties. I'm thinking of rebuilding my main (Cain on Cannith) back into an arty, but not sure on direction.

Pre enhancements changes, going pure arty was pretty much a given unless you really wanted evasion, largely due to the 4 L6 spells, and to a lesser extent, the L20 capstone. This led naturally to a build like 007, with fairly minimal changes to tailor to your own playstyle.

With the enhancements changes, I'm a bit puzzled whether or not L20 is worth it. My thinking is as follows: with the new SLAs, particularly blast rod, as well as much better mobility with runearms, reliance on the L6 damage spells is probably lessened (in particular, throwing out max'd/emp'd/quickened/heightened blast rods every 6s for effectively 5 spell points probably beats out any other damage spell an arty has). If you do go down the blast rod route for damage, then you're looking at being in close melee range. The new enhancements for bastard swords makes Nightmare a viable option to replace repeaters (not sure if there are better b.swords or daxes out there now though), and a str build with the haste boost should provide comparable damage at least to repeaters (I think - haven't tested this). If you're going melee, then evasion helps a lot as you can't rely on being far enough away to dodge spell effects as easily. This opens up the option of 2 rogue, and possibly even taking haste boost from thief acrobat to free up EF from arty (to give you a ranged 'back-up' option for when you didn't want to melee); you could also get a couple of extra SA dice from assassin and +2 to hit / +1 to damage with xbows from mechanic. The melee arty using bastard swords also gets far more out of fotw than a ranged arty would, and I suspect this build would be significantly more dps at epic levels.

Conversely, replicating the old L20 arty build requires major investment in the AT/BE trees - 41 pts in AT to get the old capstone, and at least 34 in BE to have top runearm capabilities. This looks to me like you take quite a hit on the racial enhancements.

So, my question is: is pure arty still worth it, and would you guys say that the 007 build is still better than a splash that brings in evasion?


Edit: I realised I referenced str builds for the b.sword, but I'm still assuming here an Int based build as insightful damage applies to b.swords. I suspect that when you reach epic levels, you'll end up defaulting to str even if you level up Int, purely because fotw allows for additional str from rage effects etc, hence my reference to str.

Welcome back Loriac. A lot of topics covered in there. I can't speak to the comparison of a melee vs ranged arti as I haven't tried a melee. Even though there are now enhancements which make it a more viable option, my perspective is still the same, it's simply not how I would want to play an arti. So I haven't really thought through what would make an optimal melee arti. My comments below are concerned with a ranged build.

Regarding pure vs splash, I'd still choose pure for several reasons. First, quickened reconstructs are one of the most effective methods of survival. Even now on Dubbell, the other pillars of defense are minimal at best (e.g. very little dodge and PRR, no evasion). But quickened reconstructs have been more than enough to survive anything I've faced in the game. Would the other pillars of defense help? Certainly. But with quickened reconstruct you can neglect them all and still be very survivable. So for this reason, evasion isn't particularly needed. As far as traps are concerned, as I've mentioned before, Mario skills can get you through/around traps.

Second, the battle engineer capstone is pretty nice. I wouldn't bother staying pure for the arcanotechnician capstone now, just as I wouldn't have before the pass. The battle engineer capstone gives your main hand weapon an implement spell power bonus. As Singular pointed out, this is currently bugged and only applying the implement bonus for the base enhancement of 8 on Needle, not for the extra 3 granted from battle engineer. But it's still more than you would find in any other slot (e.g. the dragon cloak). If you slot spell power on your crossbow, then this will allow it to provide an implement bonus as well, but I've commented previously about how I think it's more effective to slot an elemental damage in the red slot.

Lastly, there are 3 level 6 spells that I would consider essential: deadly, reconstruct, and blade barrier. Blade barrier is still fantastic persistent AoE dps. I do find the CC options of an arti to be underwhelming in the current endgame. I haven't regularly used most of those spells for a while now. I play Dubbell more as a nuker now and blade barrier is still a big part of that playstyle. You need 19 levels in arti to get 3 level 6 spell slots, and I don't know what 1 level of anything else is really going to offer.

Regarding the SLA's, I was quite unimpressed with them when I tried them out. Even maximized and empowered their damage was so low compared to my other damage sources that it wasn't worth including them in the rotation. IMO, their main advantage is their cheap cost, but I've never had a problem with spell points so I don't consider this a worthwhile advantage.

All of these comments are geared towards my own preferred playstyle with an artificer. Yours may differ. I do see some synergy in your line of thinking for a melee arti, but I haven't thought through all of those options so I can't really comment beyond that.

Also, if you were not already aware, Nightmare is getting nerfed with U20. Currently on live, the level drain procs on every crit hit even though the description states that it has a chance to proc on a crit hit. U20 will change it so that it is only a chance, and afaik, we do not yet know what that chance is. The level drain on crit was the main property on Nightmare that made it so effective in EE content. This change will definitely remove it from the top tier dps options. I don't know what other bastard sword or dwarven axe options are out there either, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

[Loriac]

Thanks for the detailed response CThru, very useful info. I wasn't aware that Nightmare was getting nerfed, that does change the calculus on a bastard sword build significantly.

Just thinking aloud, have you considered how a bladeforged based arti nuker might look (once its possible to reincarnate into a BF)? I take on board your comment about 3 L6 slots, and I definitely would consider quickened reconstruct essential on a WF build. However, with the bladeforged getting reconstruct as an sla, you could use a base 16 Arty / 2 Pal / 2 'open' split. You'd retain deadly weapons and blade barrier as your 2 level 6 slots, and the sla would give you a cheap quickened reconstruct every 6seconds. 2 Pal would boost saves significantly. The final 2 levels could then be used to get evasion, or whatever else you want.

I suspect that unless theres a 2 class splash that can bump up the damage significantly the pure WF arty is still better for your playstyle (as survivability isn't an issue it seems, so the value of 2 Pal is lessened unless you're currently twisting to get better saves), but bladeforged may well open up some new options for a deep splash arty.

[Singular]

Hi Singular, thank you for your response.

I think I was unclear on the ap spend - blast rod is tier 4 in AT, so you don't need to lock out the BE tier 5. Lightning motes is a nice SLA in AT tier 5, but not worth the loss of the tier 5 runearm enhancements in BE imo.

I should have paid more attention to that

I think runearm with bastard sword or daxe should beat out dual wielding tbh - the optimal split just based on reading ddo wiki seems to be tier 5 in BE (spending 41 ap for the capstone if pure, 34 ap if multiclassed), with tier 4 in AT giving access to blast rod sla for just 23 ap spent (though you'd probably spend a further 4 for the +1 Int and +1 spell crits. With this set up, you get the full power of a runearm in addition to the main hand weapon, and I think the runearm > offhand weapon damage. With TWF, you lose out on the additional spell power from the runearm (seems you can get +40 with charge at tier 5), making the runearm+1h weapon combo even more enticing.

Level 15 arty still seems worthwhile to me, for access to deadly weapons. If you're WF, level 16 arty (or perhaps Level 15 arty + bladeforged as they get reconstruct as an SLA) is needed I think.

That's quite synergistic. If you can go 15/5, that might be the best - some of the Paladin enhancements would greatly increase your dps, especially Divine Might and Divine Sacrifice. Or you could toss Monk in to get evasion, but that would change your armor set up.

However, rather than get into the ins and outs of a different build on CThru's thread, I guess if I was to summarise your comments, it would be that pure ranged/casting arty is still viable but its now debatable whether it beats out a melee artificer (or even an evasion splash version).

Totally, good point. I've kinda started seeing this thread as *the* place to discuss arties but, yes, it should be about Cthru's build.

Do you find that stuff like tac det sticks on EE mobs in the latest content? I recall DCs being problematic for some EE content even in u17, so I'm curious how a pure arty fares in u19.

I ground out 4 caster lives - 3 sorc, 1 wiz - and took everything but Epic Spell Focus, use the Sage's Locket (+5 Evocation necklace; +4 heroic version available) and both Draconic and Magister twists (+5), so my evocation DC's are high. Right now Tac/Det is an unbuffed 52, 54 w/ship buffs, and that is enough to CC roughly 50-60% of the EE mobs I've run into (my unbuffed Int is 50). It's very nice to have in EE GH.

Anyways, it will be possible to increase that a bit. Max int bonus on items is now +11 instead of +8 (making it +15, w/insight + exceptional). Max would look like this:

+4 caster lives
+3 Evocation focuses
+5 equipment
+24 Int bonus (for a 54 Int, but it could be slightly higher if person was in an ED that let them take Int or a Drow completionist - although they'd suffer on some other feat; I couldn't fit completionist in and I'm human, or took all their epic feats as int, but then they wouldn't have combat archery or, in the case of melee, overwhelming critical).
+2 ship
+10 base
+6 spell or heighten
+5 twists (Draconic +2 and Magister +3)

Total: 59

(uhm...just logged in and I'm only reading 52 DC on tac/det. So I don't think it's reading the twists; I'll check the combat log later)

I'm currently using Ruin instead of Epic Spell Focus, but may change after I do some more EE testing. Right now I've just been hitting EH content to finish off my past lives (how dull), and Ruin is great in EH content. It's a second Boulder Toss, slightly faster, and more likely to hit (obstacles don't stop it) but it costs crazy sp.

[Panzermeyer]

+4 caster lives
+3 Evocation focuses
+5 equipment
+24 Int bonus (for a 54 Int, but it could be slightly higher if person was in an ED that let them take Int or a Drow completionist - although they'd suffer on some other feat; I couldn't fit completionist in and I'm human, or took all their epic feats as int, but then they wouldn't have combat archery or, in the case of melee, overwhelming critical).
+2 ship
+10 base
+6 spell or heighten
+5 twists (Draconic +2 and Magister +3)

What is the +6 spell or heighten?

Being a lvl 6 spell I did not think Heighten would do anything for Tactical Detotnation.

I am a first life human arti. With a +10 Int Item. I run in the 50-54 Int range. I have seen my DC for TD at 52-54 when properly set for DC's on TD. With 3 sorc lives and the wizzy active feat should easily get mid 55's without a ton of effort, and higher with more effort.

[Loriac]

What is the +6 spell or heighten?

This just refers to 6 being the highest arty spell level - either you're casting a L6 spell, or you can heighten it to L6, so you get a base DC of 16 (which is the +10 and +6 in Singular's breakdown)

[Panzermeyer]

This just refers to 6 being the highest arty spell level - either you're casting a L6 spell, or you can heighten it to L6, so you get a base DC of 16 (which is the +10 and +6 in Singular's breakdown)

Right got it.

[Singular]

What is the +6 spell or heighten?

Being a lvl 6 spell I did not think Heighten would do anything for Tactical Detotnation.

I am a first life human arti. With a +10 Int Item. I run in the 50-54 Int range. I have seen my DC for TD at 52-54 when properly set for DC's on TD. With 3 sorc lives and the wizzy active feat should easily get mid 55's without a ton of effort, and higher with more effort.

Huh. Yeah, I don't know why I'm only getting 54 DC on tac/det. It should be higher based on my above calculation - and no one has found errors yet. Anyways, that's what I was getting w/ship buffs. W/out, 52.

@Loriac: 52 was enough for me to solo EE TOR (without dragons). Tac/det was putting the mobs down - about 60% of them (maybe a little higher). It saved me from death countless times!

[Panzermeyer]

Huh. Yeah, I don't know why I'm only getting 54 DC on tac/det. It should be higher based on my above calculation - and no one has found errors yet. Anyways, that's what I was getting w/ship buffs. W/out, 52.

Yea to be honest as a first lifer, I was very surprised that I was hitting those numbers.

I need to get back on the toon and figure out how I managed to get those numbers.

I know when I am off main destinies I am usually in the high 40's.

[CThruTheEgo]

Thanks for the detailed response CThru, very useful info. I wasn't aware that Nightmare was getting nerfed, that does change the calculus on a bastard sword build significantly.

Just thinking aloud, have you considered how a bladeforged based arti nuker might look (once its possible to reincarnate into a BF)? I take on board your comment about 3 L6 slots, and I definitely would consider quickened reconstruct essential on a WF build. However, with the bladeforged getting reconstruct as an sla, you could use a base 16 Arty / 2 Pal / 2 'open' split. You'd retain deadly weapons and blade barrier as your 2 level 6 slots, and the sla would give you a cheap quickened reconstruct every 6seconds. 2 Pal would boost saves significantly. The final 2 levels could then be used to get evasion, or whatever else you want.

I suspect that unless theres a 2 class splash that can bump up the damage significantly the pure WF arty is still better for your playstyle (as survivability isn't an issue it seems, so the value of 2 Pal is lessened unless you're currently twisting to get better saves), but bladeforged may well open up some new options for a deep splash arty.

Yeah, Bladeforged would definitely make a good splash build. If I was going to splash at all, I'd probably go for evasion as I don't know what else would be worth splashing. There might be some class combination with the new enhancements that would allow you to boost spell power but I don't know what that might be (some of the shiradi builds might offer insight into this variation).

I was also thinking about some possibilities for a melee build. Blade barrier has greater synergy for a ranged build than a melee, so if you're going melee you could consider losing that spell slot. You could certainly get good use out of it as a melee but it's easier to kite and still attack as a ranged.

I'm not really sure about the playstyle of a melee arti. I can see how the SLAs would fit with the close range of melee and might be worth including in the rotation if the bastard sword/dwarven axe options are lower dps than Needle. That's my problem with them on Dubbell, I don't even want to stop shooting to use them. But if your weapon is doing less damage, then they might be worth it. That really depends on the weapon choices for melee though, which I don't really know about. Along with energy burst, these could be your AoE burst dps.

Also, if I was going to be right in the middle of combat all the time, I'd want to increase my other defenses (e.g. dodge, PRR). You'd be taking more damage overall than a ranged build and quickened reconstructs might not be enough at that point.

I don't know if any of that is useful but they're just some thoughts I had.

[Panzermeyer]

Yeah, Bladeforged would definitely make a good splash build. If I was going to splash at all, I'd probably go for evasion as I don't know what else would be worth splashing. There might be some class combination with the new enhancements that would allow you to boost spell power but I don't know what that might be (some of the shiradi builds might offer insight into this variation).

Hey CThru,

Has your gear set up changed much from the original post.

I got a toon that I am plowing through TRing some lives. Planning on making a GS Con Op. My other arti was using the Epic Spare Hand for a belt. But I guess that would make a great spot for a ConOp item. There is not a ton I get out of the Spare Hand, other than the two augment slots and having my disable, locks item on all the time.

Been trying to think of what exactly I wanted to use for a ConOp item thinking end life.

[CThruTheEgo]

Hey CThru,

Has your gear set up changed much from the original post.

I got a toon that I am plowing through TRing some lives. Planning on making a GS Con Op. My other arti was using the Epic Spare Hand for a belt. But I guess that would make a great spot for a ConOp item. There is not a ton I get out of the Spare Hand, other than the two augment slots and having my disable, locks item on all the time.

Been trying to think of what exactly I wanted to use for a ConOp item thinking end life.

I have not yet moved my GS Min2 to the cloak slot and I still don't have a set of EE Gloves of the Master Illusionist. That's the main differences between my actual gear and the gear listed, that and a few minor slot changes. Lately I've been putting most of my time and effort into the assassin in my sig. He has used up most of my GS ings and will get the first set of Master Illusionist gloves that I get.

The belt slot doesn't have too much competing for it, so I think it's a good spot for GS. There are some good belts but nothing vital imo.

[Singular]

I have not yet moved my GS Min2 to the cloak slot and I still don't have a set of EE Gloves of the Master Illusionist. That's the main differences between my actual gear and the gear listed, that and a few minor slot changes. Lately I've been putting most of my time and effort into the assassin in my sig. He has used up most of my GS ings and will get the first set of Master Illusionist gloves that I get.

The belt slot doesn't have too much competing for it, so I think it's a good spot for GS. There are some good belts but nothing vital imo.

I have a question for you: why do you want those gloves? Just for the +11 B/c you'd be giving up the heal amp of the PDK set to do so.

Otherwise, I switched from blue armor to black - slight loss in spell power, but boost in xbow dps. No loss in specific spell power outside of the 15 universal, though.