Dynamic level adjustment - scale down your high level toon for lowbie quests.

[Zodh]

Here’s an idea I’ve got after watching some Guild Wars 2 videos.
It has so called “Dynamic level adjustment” that reduces a character's attributes and level, when the character's level exceeds the area they are in. For example, a character with an actual level of 50, in a level 10 area, will have their attributes reduced to an effective level equal to a level 11 character (max level for the area +1).

Now back to DDO.
For example, my sorc is lvl20 and I’d love to play some lowbie quests, but not as a lvl20. And I don’t want to TR either, because I’ve done it 6 times already.
So how about a thing similar to GW2’s “dynamic level adjustment”, but completely optional?
Possible formulae:
[character level] = [base quest level]
[character level] = [base quest level] -1

For example, I’m lvl20 and I wanna do a lvl7 quest on elite (making it a level 9 quest). This would scale me down to lvl7, including my stats, skills, feats, spells, enhancements, and I would have my gear restricted to lvl7.
In order to do that, game would have to track my stats, skills and feats choices every level to be able to make me a certain level again.
If I’m not a max level, I could also get EXP for it.

Of course right now I could put lvl7 gear/spells and do that lvl7 quest, but this would not change my stats, skills, feats and enhancements which makes it less challenging.

[dterror]

Or you could just create a new toon, level it up to your desired 'lowbie questing level', and have at it.

[Zodh]

This is not the same. With dynamic level adjustment I could do any quests I want at any time when I feel like it. I might wanna do those quests for favor when there's nothing else to do.
If I just start a new toon it wouldn't have all the gear I got from my previous lives. And we all know that one of the most fun things about TRing - using all that gear you earned from past lives.
Besides when I level it I might have no time (if I'm levelling with friends that wanna zerg through) or desire (if I just wanna level up to max level and have a primary toon ready for epic content) to do all the quests I would like to do.

[MsEricka]

No.

It's been asked for before, and went nowhere. This brings in a level of difficulty to the game that isn't necessary and over-complicates the necessary programming of the game.

Simply make another toon, get it to the appropriate level and keep it there.

[qoolboxer]

No, because it is too difficult for Turbine to do this without breaking most of the game. I can imagine your toon to be scaled down and never returned to power again (just saying example of bug that could happen given history).

And NO, simply because it won't help Turbine earn any money (any suggestion should be accompanied with a plan to make money for Turbine, otherwise it is a bad idea).

[Siro]

City of Heroes actually does this (and it is great!). DDO does currently already track feat and enhancement progression. This would solve the problems of grouping with friends/guildies that are lower level and ameliorate the lack of content at some level ranges. Monetarily, turbine could stand to make tons of money by releasing additional tiers of bank/backpack space. Keeping around extra gear for running quests at every level is sure to eat up space.

[karatemack]

For example, my sorc is lvl20 and I’d love to play some lowbie quests, but not as a lvl20. And I don’t want to TR either, because I’ve done it 6 times already.

If they removed XP scaling most players (not just the power gamers) would probably TR.

[Xynot2]

If you can get them to scale the Onyx Panther, I'll sign. Til then... No.

[Zodh]

And NO, simply because it won't help Turbine earn any money (any suggestion should be accompanied with a plan to make money for Turbine, otherwise it is a bad idea).

Ok, then it doesn't have to be for free (maybe only for VIPs). I wouldn't mind paying 500-1000 TP for it.

This would solve the problems of grouping with friends/guildies that are lower level and ameliorate the lack of content at some level ranges.

This is a very good point! I don't know why I forgot to mention it, but that's one of the main reasons for this feature.

So yeah, it's not only about being a max level and doing quests for no EXP but fun and favor - many would find this useless; it's more about not having to wait for friends and being able to group with them even if you are behind/ahead in levels, they don't have to wait for you either.

[Ugumagre]

Guild Wars 2 is a new game programmed, so to say, "from scratch".
They have included that mechanic in accordance with all the other programming and content.
Trying to do this in DDO would be like trying to programm a new game.
The only way to do this would be giving negative levels, but even so they couls use the overpowered gear.

[countfitz]

The devs just don't have the talent to do this.

You can wish though.

[Mastikator]

I can think of two ways this could be done.
1. Apply a powerful negative level debuff that can't be removed until you leave.
2. Remove the last X number of levels of the toon entirely for the duration of the quest.

The first is a terrible idea that shouldn't be considered. The second would cause lag like there's no tomorrow.
/not signed

[V_mad_jester_V]

City of Heroes actually does this (and it is great!). DDO does currently already track feat and enhancement progression. This would solve the problems of grouping with friends/guildies that are lower level and ameliorate the lack of content at some level ranges. Monetarily, turbine could stand to make tons of money by releasing additional tiers of bank/backpack space. Keeping around extra gear for running quests at every level is sure to eat up space.

I loved that about City of Heroes, i had a bunch of high leveled heroes and villains alike and i usually outpaced members in my league, so i would back track to help them without having to go through rolling another toon, catching up to them, helping them, out pacing them on new toon, rinse and repeat.

To the OP i think this is a wonderful idea, and if turbine had the ability to do this i would love for this to happen, it is a great tool, and everyone who gives you the "roll a new toon" option is not clearly thinking that statement all the way through,

vet 4 can help levels 2-7out
vet 7 can help levels 5-10 out

if you have a max leveled toon, and both vet status then you cant help any of your guildies/friends out who has level 11-16 toons, unless you have an alt at 11-16. I would like to see my toon revert to a lower level to help out friends, As the one poster mentioned it was implimented in CoH/CoV, Guild Wars I and II, and i cant remember but i think Champions did so, and possibly DCU (or i could be thinking of the rumors of DCU wanting to implement it later, but i quit playing DCU a while ago)

This would make more money for turbine cuz then more people would play lower end content with their friends who are slow to level. Heck i think this system would bring more people in. Imagine grouping then

level 20 clr posting for level 7 quest
favor run elite, (cleric is level 20 but reduced to 7 for the quest)
now people level 7-9 can join and get exp

the amount of exp from lowbie quest wont amount to much for the level 20 in the group, its just a very very small fraction of exp needed to level, so this wouldnt possibly break the game. Then you have big exp quest that most people tend to farm anyways, and if they brought this system in, im sure less people will farm those quest at level, wait till their level 20 or higher, and go back to be considered low level again to farm it (again it wont do much to be a game breaker cuz people will farm it regardless and get the same exact exp regardless).

This system would also help tr's a little more. Lets say they gotta power level to catch up to a few friends, but they skip content doing so. They can then go back and do missed content and get some exp (again this wont be something thats going to be OMG I JUST LEVELED TO 21) cuz upon reverting to 20 you will still need 4k exp (if your 3rd life or higher). So i couldnt see why tr owners would object to this. more options to get exp=more playability.

Again this wouldnt be a substantial amount of exp granted but it would sure help the **** exp given by higher level quest

8k for the riddle on elite? o.0
5-8 k for weapons shipment on elite? o.0

But unfortunately as great of an idea this is, it would probably cause the game to literally break.

[Zodh]

Great input, exactly what I meant.
But seems like this would be too hard to implement, so devs ain't even gonna bother considering it.

Thanx everybody! Thread can now be closed.

[EbbOnFire]

I loved the feature on City of Heroes, but I really don't think it would work in this game. The difference is gear. In DDO your character's power stems in a large part from the gear they're wearing. Any change in one item can have a domino effect where you swap articles around to cover all of the important bases. Bank and backpack space is already at a premium, with people creating entire bank toons to hold their BTA and unbound gear, swapping it around when necessary.

Now imagine having to go through that before every mission. Some friends decide to run Tangleroot, and you want to bump your L16 character down to join them. Do you have a full set of L6 gear ready to go? What about consumables? Put away those Heal scrolls, you can't use them now, dig out your CSW pots. Try to remember where your False Life item is. Were you still using a 2 handed weapon at that point, or had you taken the TWF feats yet? Do you have an Abishai set sitting in cold storage for this guy, or is one of your other characters wearing it?

If you think waiting for the rest of the party to get ship buffs is a nightmare now, imagine waiting while everyone digs through their closets to find the feather fall item that they used to carry.

Now, if there were more sophisticated tools to save "gear sets", so you could grab everything at once, then maybe this wouldn't be as big of an obstacle. But you'd still have to store everything.

Overall I think the feature, if it even could be implemented, would end up as a novelty that people would try a couple of times, then determine it wasn't worth the overhead. Unless, again, there was some payoff other than being able to just play with friends (which is a good thing, mind you). For high level characters the drivers are XP, loot and (to a lesser extent) favor. You're not going to get useful loot from quests ten levels below you, probably. (And you can get it with the current system anyway.) You can already get favor the way things are set up now. So that leaves XP. Are you going to have a system where a L18 player can get some XP from running Waterworks? It'll be tricky to balance that -- too little and it becomes not worth it. Too much and it becomes a faster route to leveling than doing the quests you're "supposed" to be doing at that level.

[valarx]

This will be way too hard to implement with the current system.

A nice alternative would be for devs to go back an rework dungeons to add Epic versions to them. This way you can play the dungeon at the appropriat Heroic level, revisit it later at Hard and Elite difficulties (as you level up), then for end game you can play the Epic versions (once you've hit 20). Some quests already have Heroic/Epic versions. Converting old quests to an Epic version seems much more in reach of the developers than dynamic level scaling.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

A nice alternative would be for devs to go back an rework dungeons to add Epic versions to them.

Interesting, because *this* is the exact *opposite* of the original poster's idea !

Because *this* idea would - once again - turn ALL content into content for high-level players !

It would be like scaling up everything !

And every time I read a response here like "would be too difficult to implement" I can't help but get the feeling as if this was just to keep high-level characters out of low-level quests ... aka "stay away from it ! What have we to do with them Lowbies ?"

Converting old quests to an Epic version seems much more in reach of the developers than dynamic level scaling.

To me this sounds as if a rich man buys a bargain away from a poor man.

If Turbine is able to add Epic versions - then it would be only consequent to add Lowbie versions to quests ... Although everyone playing higher level content would cry out loud because "it would break the whole game" and the sense of level progression was suddenly nihil.

No, as excellent this idea, I don't see it coming. There would be enough people being against it.

The vocal minority only pushes high-level content, never low-level content.

[Xezrak]

I actually like this idea, this will provide access to a lot more content, will definately help ease the pain of the 'dead levels.

I think it should be an option for the party leader to make the quest scale to get no xp penalty or to have high levels have the extra power and then suffer the xp penalty.

On a side note it would be nice if the repeat penalty had a floor of 20 or 30% xp.

[valarx]

Interesting, because *this* is the exact *opposite* of the original poster's idea !

Because *this* idea would - once again - turn ALL content into content for high-level players !

It would be like scaling up everything !

No. Because the quests would still exist at the heroic levels. You could run them on Heroic Casual/Normal/Hard/Elite at any time. It just makes the quests AVAILABLE to run at higher levels (level 20) with appropriate challenge. I was really hoping that the Korthos quests would have Epic versions so I could run them as a lvl 20 character.

If Turbine is able to add Epic versions - then it would be only consequent to add Lowbie versions to quests ... Although everyone playing higher level content would cry out loud because "it would break the whole game" and the sense of level progression was suddenly nihil.

No, as excellent this idea, I don't see it coming. There would be enough people being against it.

The vocal minority only pushes high-level content, never low-level content.

I'd have no problem with Turbine adding lower level versions of their high (12+) level quests. I don't see this happening though. It doesn't fit the system that they currently have set up. I'm not saying I'm against it, it just isn't likely.

[Persiflage]

No. Because the quests would still exist at the heroic levels. You could run them on Heroic Casual/Normal/Hard/Elite at any time. It just makes the quests AVAILABLE to run at higher levels (level 20) with appropriate challenge. I was really hoping that the Korthos quests would have Epic versions so I could run them as a lvl 20 character.

EPIC MISERY'S PEAK FTW!!!

Only this time, *you* are the high-level adventurers, and your job is to tank Aussircaex and fight off epic mobs while a bunch of lowbies run through and break the crystal

Now, if they could write it so you could actually play this (and other adventures) with high-level and low-level groups at the same time, in their different respective roles, this game would automatically acquire all the awesome in existence, while fulfilling the OP's requirement of allowing high-level and low-level toons to run the same quests (which I'm all in favour of, howsoever accomplished).

Talk about bringing the flavour of "real" D&D to a game! After all, how many PnP quests start with your low-level adventuring group being hired by a powerful figure to do some random task or other that common-sense would tell you they could do themselves in 5 minutes? Parallel paths through the game, with adventures written for "Epic-group-plus-Heroic-group" would rock my world...

Anyway, apologies for the slight thread derail.

Back on topic, I actually like the concept behind the OP's post, but as EbbOnFire said, there is no obvious way of implementing this which takes into account a character's gear. The only thing I can think of would be to have "item caps" in a quest; you don't change your Superior False Life item, it's just capped at +10hp. That doesn't help with skills and consumables such as Heal scrolls though, and overall I suspect it would be a complicated mess.