Is this right?

[Saroman20]

So, i made a rogue... what i want on him? I want Repeating Crossb damage... and be able to take all traps i can find...
I dont have much experience on the game...
Any help is welcome!

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Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(20 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 222
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 9
Reflex: 17
Will: 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength              8                     8
Dexterity            14                    19
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         18                    25
Wisdom               10                    10
Charisma             10                    10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                    28
Bluff                 0                    19
Concentration         2                     3
Diplomacy             4                    24
Disable Device        8                    39
Haggle                4                    24
Heal                  0                     1
Hide                  6                    32
Intimidate            0                     1
Jump                  3                    25
Listen                0                     3
Move Silently         6                    30
Open Lock             6                    35
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                4                    12
Search                8                    35
Spot                  4                    28
Swim                 -1                     0
Tumble                6                    28
Use Magic Device      4                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I


Level 2 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Fire Trap Lore I
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I


Level 3 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Reload
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device II
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock II


Level 5 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I


Level 6 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic I


Level 7 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device III
Enhancement: Improved Open Lock III


Level 9 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Rapid Shot
Enhancement: Halfling Dexterity II


Level 10 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Improved Evasion
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity II


Level 11 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Skill Boost IV


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
Enhancement: Rogue Mechanic II


Level 13 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Defensive Roll
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device IV
Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity III


Level 14 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Precise Shot
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II


Level 16 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Slippery Mind
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III


Level 17 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense IV


Level 19 (Rogue)
Feat: (Rogue Bonus) Skill Mastery
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training III


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Deadly Shadow
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training IV

[wax_on_wax_off]

Artificer is what you're looking for.

[Saroman20]

Nah.. i REALLY want a Rogue for sure...

[PolarisNC]

I'll second W_O_W_O: artificers are a lot easier and significantly more powerful, especially for a new player. If you're set on a rogue though, my thoughts are these:

1) This is going to be painful until you hit level 6. Right now you have almost no way to do damage until you get Mechanic I. Consider starting with your 1st feat as EWP: light repeaters and swapping that for toughness using your free exchange after you get your PRE. Otherwise, you'll need groups to complete most quests. (Not that grouping is a bad thing, but this is definitely not a solo build.)

2) It looks like your level-up stats are all going into Int. While that makes sense from a damage perspective, you still need to hit your target. Consider dropping Int to 17, and raising Dex to 16 (the odd build point can go anywhere, I'd put it in Str). Then with just 1 level up in Dex and a +2 tome (easy to get by level 17) you can take Improved Precise Shot instead of quick draw.

3) The max range on sneak damage is pretty short. You'll need to be very careful about managing aggro.

4) Slippery mind just means you'll fail your will saves twice. Opportunist (3% doublestrike/10% Fort bypass) would be much better.

As always, credit where credit is due: most of what I know about playing rogues was explained first here.

Good luck!

[Saroman20]

Does double strike works with repeaters?
What quick draw ill do exacly on a repeater?

[Mrphish]

i also agree with wax, arti just just flat out better.

however if you have your mind set on going with rogue here's a couple of recommendations. first take your points from wisdom and put them into strength, wisdom is just not needed... unless you are splashing monk for stunning fist, which you arn't. secondly i recommend you go half elf and get the arti dilly and go assassin and use your repeater situationally, it can be great form of crowd control in the right situation and is highly useful for kiteing when needed. the reason i suggest this is because anyone with 1 level of rogue splash can get traps... and quite frankly your repeater dps isn't going to be great, an arti will plow through your dps with just one fully charged rune arm blast. so you need to bring something else to the table, and being able to insta kill that caster thats spamming disco balls and pummeling your party with fire balls is extremely valuable, add scroll healing the ability to safely kite along with traps on top of that and you have your self a very versitile and valuable character.

that's my suggestion anyway.

[DDOGoz]

doublestrike doesn't work on range attacks.

quickdraw isn't going to increase your damage really. it'll just make you change weapons faster. it only increase "attack speed" for throwing weapons like shurikens.

if all you want is 1. use xbow, and 2. get all the traps, a Warforged arti is the easiest option for a new player. being able to self-repair is the ultimate easy button. and u get the pet dog to help out at low lvl too. Arti will out-dps rogue if you are not getting SA, but if you are getting SA you will far-far-out-dps arti. Maintaining SA is a Style of Life that you'll have to learn and get used to. If you want to solo a lot, or just want to shoot at everything that moves then Arti is for you.

But rogue-mechanic is definitely a viable build. My lvl 18 mechanic often leads the kill scoreboard on elite vale quests.

first, read Draccus's guide to rogues if you haven't: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=274155. What it says about TWF doesn't apply of course, and replace Strength with Intelligence since that's your dmg modifier.

As for your build...
- switch quickdraw for Improved Precise Shot. It can easily triple or quadruple your dmg if you can line them up! It's absolutely required if you expect to keep up with the melees in dmg.
- you only get SA(Sneak Attack dmg) on range attacks if you are close enough. You know the circle that appears when someone casts Haste or Bless or Mass Aid? Your target needs to be within about 1 diameter of that circle to get SA, outside of that you just do regular dmg without SA.
- personally, I would cut 2 pts from wis and 2 from cha and add 4 to str. Even though str doesn't increase ur dmg, it's still helpful. Halflings already get a carrying capacity penalty, and since you are new I am assuming you'll want to keep all the fancy loot u find, either to keep or sell. with 8 str, after all your own weapons and stuff, you'll be encumbered by the next shield or armor u find. and a single ray of enfeeblement can potentially leave u helpless.

until you get exotic weapon proficiency: heavy repeater or the one for light repeater, the weapon will only shoot like a regular xbow, so it's probably not worth to use it until lvl 6, when mechanic I gives u light repeater proficiency. just grab the best q-staff u can find until then.

Most importantly, don't grab aggro, and remember to have fun!

[ZeebaNeighba]

You will want Precision now on any rogue after the u14 changes to it, it gives +5% to hit (which matters in pretty much any non-trivial content, where you graze on a 2) and you bypass 25% fortification. Take it instead of Quick Draw.

Someone said it above, but yeah, take opportunist over slippery mind. You will bypass 10% fortification with it.

Take the starting points out of wisdom, it's just useless to a rogue. 1 point in dexterity/constitution would be better than that (dexterity is probably the better choice, since you can more easily make sure your dex is always even using enhancements). Even 2 points of charisma is better because there will be some nice arti scrolls you might want sometimes, like elemental weapons, or putting on a couple types of dr breaker buffs, or using insightful strikes if you're grazing a lot.

A high amount of dexterity will be very useful by level 24. With tomes added in, at level 21 you will probably want 21 dex for improved sneak attack and combat archery. Improved sneak attack gives 3d6 extra sneak damage, and combat archery gives +1[W] for ranged weapons (for you, this will probably add 1d10 damage if you use a heavy repeater, or 1d8 if you use a light repeater). Improved precise shot is another fun feat to have, but I've found when I actually use it on my mechanic, it's a lot harder to manage aggro, and often only some of my targets that I hit with it will actually be in sneak attack range. It's also hard to keep opponents in a line when they're aggroing someone else. So your mileage may vary there.

Also, you will need to get used to being able to sneak attack everything. If you can't, you might as well roll an artificer like other people said, hell even a wizard with UMD can do the same DPS if they throw on an insightful damage scroll. Rogue, at level 25, not including destinies, can get up to 17d6+12 more damage than an artificer while sneak attacking. Additionally, this damage is added on even when you get a grazing hit. So as far as the crossbow goes, rogues beat the hell out of artificers when sneak attacking opponents with low to moderate fortification, as well as high AC opponents. Keep in mind that artificers can actually fire their rune arms and cast spells and those can close the gap between their overall dps.

[wax_on_wax_off]

I'd thought that the fort bypass portion of Opportunist only affected melee but just tested on my rogue and got a critics the training dummy with a great crossbow with no other source of bypass (I think).

So yeah, load up on that Opportunist!

Still, Artificer all the way, it's just ridiculous how much better it is. If not that then assassin with artifices dilettante for situational repeater use and high assassinate DC.

[Xynot2]

The reason everyone finds wisdom useless- Spot is the skill you think you need wisdom for and with all of the available maps showing where every trap in the game is hidden, you only need to worry about search.

[RandomKeypress]

I have a repeater assassin as my main. The damage is okay - not melee-good, but at end-game you'll be doing a pretty reliable 250+ / hit for a reasonable rate of fire, against multiple foes simultaneously. All the melees will laugh at that, but it's still effective. Anti-boss DPS is slightly higher now that we have archer's focus and epic destiny stuff like stand your ground. Don't anticipate being top of the DPS chart any time soon, but your survivability should be decent if you play sensibly.

That being said, don't go mechanic. The only thing you get for mechanic is the free crossbow feats and Int to damage. You will do more damage through the extra sneak attacks with assassin than you'll do with boosting your int score. As you won't need sky-high int, you can then boost your dex which will a) add to your chance of actually hitting your enemies (as a rogue your +to hit isn't great) and b) be able to get improved precise shot. IPS is NOT optional for a ranged-focus build. You really do need it. There are also some nice looking epic feats that require high dexterity. They may be broken at the moment though.

If you have access to half-elves, go arti dilli as mentioned above. That'll give you the crossbow feats you need and very slightly better UMD.

Feat wise, drop Defensive Roll (if you need it, you already messed up bad and it's not likely to save you), Slippery Mind (really not worth it) and quick draw. Opportunist gives 10% fort bypass - you want that. Get Improved Precise Shot. Can't remember what I've got for the second rogue-feat - probably another skill mastery. It's not a bad option.

[Todkaninchen]

First, you want to start with at least 10 STR. You can go 9 and dump a +1 tome on him or you can go 10. Otherwise, you're fighting for max level Ogre strength gear just to carry your bows and your bolts. Drop either WIS or CHA for it.

While you're going to be tempted to avoid Spot because "the traps are always in the same place", do not. Max Spot, max Bluff as well as your other primaries. In addition to telling you when you're near a trap, Spot also lets you see enemies you would otherwise miss. Like those Ghouls in Misery's Peak, or all the Sneaks, Rogues, Hunters, etc. out there that are the most likely enemies to spot you first.

It's part of aggro management.

Bluff is a dual purpose skill. You can use it to dump aggro--and sneak attack immediately--in combat, but it also lets you move those baddies you spotted with your higher Spot skill to you, one at a time, so you can sneak attack them. This will probably be even more important as an assassin...

Arti vs. Rogue Mech for traps...

I have a level 16 Arti and a level 17 rogue mechanic and a level 18 rogue mechanic (w/ 1 level of Fighter...) Know who dies in the traps most with almost the same build?

The Arti.

Half of trapping is getting to the box. To do so with an INT/DEX split rogue mechanic is easy... Run through.

To do so with an Arti is buff appropriately, cross your fingers, and get lucky. The only saving grace is actually Radiant Forcefield which seems to take 25% off the top of mechanical trap damage. Which means a good reflex save and I'm at (.5 x .75 = 37.5) 37.5% of the actual trap damage when I get hit. Only problem is the short duration and looooooong cooldown of Raidant Forcefield. So, I cringe in Wizard King and have to run through the traps in Lords of Dust then disarm them coming back up.

Damagewise, it really depends on how much time and effort you put into collecting your gear. My rogue mechs love the Doublecross bow. When the sleep poison hits, that's sneak attack damage and 150% of normal AND sneak attack damage.

Arti is more gear dependent--especially rune arms--and how much SP you have out gear as you do your job. I typically do a ring slot or a goggle slot because most of the rogue skills will fit both places. So, run around with spot, switch to search on a warning, switch to disable for the trap, then back to spot. Arti is worse because you have to have all of the rogue skills (except hide/move silently and bluff), but also caster-gear as well. And most of the SP buffing gear wants the same set of slots as your INT/DEX skill slots.

This screws with your ability to use task dependent gear. (Although, you can craft on rune arms... they count as trinkets, so SP procs can go on there).

Playing a rogue is also a whole lot simpler, although the dog--set up properly--is a force multiplier.

(My dog is set up with Augment summons, evasion, bluffing, a little sneak attack damage, tripping, and equipped with a paralyzer collar. He does especially well at basically riling everyone up far away from me and then keeping them turned around looking for him so I can attack them...)

So, good luck, eh?

[goodspeed]

First, you want to start with at least 10 STR. You can go 9 and dump a +1 tome on him or you can go 10. Otherwise, you're fighting for max level Ogre strength gear just to carry your bows and your bolts. Drop either WIS or CHA for it.

While you're going to be tempted to avoid Spot because "the traps are always in the same place", do not. Max Spot, max Bluff as well as your other primaries. In addition to telling you when you're near a trap, Spot also lets you see enemies you would otherwise miss. Like those Ghouls in Misery's Peak, or all the Sneaks, Rogues, Hunters, etc. out there that are the most likely enemies to spot you first.

It's part of aggro management.

Bluff is a dual purpose skill. You can use it to dump aggro--and sneak attack immediately--in combat, but it also lets you move those baddies you spotted with your higher Spot skill to you, one at a time, so you can sneak attack them. This will probably be even more important as an assassin...

Arti vs. Rogue Mech for traps...

I have a level 16 Arti and a level 17 rogue mechanic and a level 18 rogue mechanic (w/ 1 level of Fighter...) Know who dies in the traps most with almost the same build?

The Arti.

Half of trapping is getting to the box. To do so with an INT/DEX split rogue mechanic is easy... Run through.

To do so with an Arti is buff appropriately, cross your fingers, and get lucky. The only saving grace is actually Radiant Forcefield which seems to take 25% off the top of mechanical trap damage. Which means a good reflex save and I'm at (.5 x .75 = 37.5) 37.5% of the actual trap damage when I get hit. Only problem is the short duration and looooooong cooldown of Raidant Forcefield. So, I cringe in Wizard King and have to run through the traps in Lords of Dust then disarm them coming back up.

Damagewise, it really depends on how much time and effort you put into collecting your gear. My rogue mechs love the Doublecross bow. When the sleep poison hits, that's sneak attack damage and 150% of normal AND sneak attack damage.

Arti is more gear dependent--especially rune arms--and how much SP you have out gear as you do your job. I typically do a ring slot or a goggle slot because most of the rogue skills will fit both places. So, run around with spot, switch to search on a warning, switch to disable for the trap, then back to spot. Arti is worse because you have to have all of the rogue skills (except hide/move silently and bluff), but also caster-gear as well. And most of the SP buffing gear wants the same set of slots as your INT/DEX skill slots.

This screws with your ability to use task dependent gear. (Although, you can craft on rune arms... they count as trinkets, so SP procs can go on there).

Playing a rogue is also a whole lot simpler, although the dog--set up properly--is a force multiplier.

(My dog is set up with Augment summons, evasion, bluffing, a little sneak attack damage, tripping, and equipped with a paralyzer collar. He does especially well at basically riling everyone up far away from me and then keeping them turned around looking for him so I can attack them...)

So, good luck, eh?

Well I will give you the cross fingers part. Even with a 2 level splash for evasion, and 50 reflex, the dm can still flip you the bird with a couple ones in a row.

But ya if I was going to go for a repeater build and trapper hands down an arti. But if your heart of hearts is set on a mechanic like rogue then I'd probably do a rogue arti split that gave 6 levels of arti, at least. Because with that comes battle engineer and the facade which will jack up your dmg a great deal. You can also use your int mod as either a dmg or to hit number.

And i'd be sure to make sure that under no circumstances you that box blow. I'm telling you, their is no greater shame then after you go on about your build, about mechanics and then the people without wings are going....sooo why are the blades still whipping about on the staircase? And then the next box that **** arti gets to it first and then declares in chat he's disabled er on a 2.

(Ive never been the rogue but i've been the rogue and the arti that's gotten to the next box haha.)

[Todkaninchen]

Well I will give you the cross fingers part. Even with a 2 level splash for evasion, and 50 reflex, the dm can still flip you the bird with a couple ones in a row.

But ya if I was going to go for a repeater build and trapper hands down an arti. But if your heart of hearts is set on a mechanic like rogue then I'd probably do a rogue arti split that gave 6 levels of arti, at least. Because with that comes battle engineer and the facade which will jack up your dmg a great deal. You can also use your int mod as either a dmg or to hit number.

And i'd be sure to make sure that under no circumstances you that box blow. I'm telling you, their is no greater shame then after you go on about your build, about mechanics and then the people without wings are going....sooo why are the blades still whipping about on the staircase? And then the next box that **** arti gets to it first and then declares in chat he's disabled er on a 2.

(Ive never been the rogue but i've been the rogue and the arti that's gotten to the next box haha.)

Okay, my highest rogues are 17 (pure) and 18 (17 rogue/1 fighter), I don't get the needing to add INT to hit. For that matter, my Arti which is level 16 and built the same except maxed INT, a tiny bit less on DEX rarely have more than an occasional miss and that's usually due to something being in the way. I mean, I see "Incorporeal" or "Displaced" or "Immune" occasionally, but I must be doing something weird because after about level 2 with the Arti or about 2-3 with rogues have I ever seen major amounts of misses without it being, say, a +1 bow or a melee weapon.

I sort of tend to max my gear plusses as much as possible, but not things like sneak attack accuracy, halfling cunning, etc.

Is this a really common problem? Is there like a wall you hit at 20 where suddenly you have a hard time hitting things or is the mid-to-high 30's always typically going to be enough as your basic to-hit?

(Not being facetious, actually curious.)

[Saroman20]

Hey, a question... can i start with 17 Dex and rely on the enchantments to get +2 dex so i can pick Improved Precise Shot ?

[wax_on_wax_off]

Hey, a question... can i start with 17 Dex and rely on the enchantments to get +2 dex so i can pick Improved Precise Shot ?

No. For feat qualifying it is base+levels+tomes only.

[DDOGoz]

No. For feat qualifying it is base+levels+tomes only.

Yes, and a +2 dex tome is probably more affordable than you think. right now they are about 100k (+/-20k) on Sarlona AH. you should be able to afford that easily after lvl 15. but just remember to eat it before you take the lvl you are going to take Imp. Precise Shot.

[ZeebaNeighba]

Hey, a question... can i start with 17 Dex and rely on the enchantments to get +2 dex so i can pick Improved Precise Shot ?

You can use a +2 tome or, the point you get to put into an ability every four levels, you can put 2 of those into dex. Or technically you can put in one level-up point and use a +1 tome.

Yes, and a +2 dex tome is probably more affordable than you think. right now they are about 100k (+/-20k) on Sarlona AH. you should be able to afford that easily after lvl 15. but just remember to eat it before you take the lvl you are going to take Imp. Precise Shot.

You also get a free +2 tome of your choice for reaching 1750 favor. This goes for each character, and (edit) I thought that it was unbound, but it's not

[wax_on_wax_off]

i think that tome is unbound, so you can get a higher level character to get the favor and pass it to your new character.

btc

[SickCat]

Here's what I did: 13/7 rogue/arti. Max INT. You'll be able to get damage from INT (mechanic pre) then tohit from INT as well (arti spell). You'll have max trap skills, your repeater will hit pretty hard (mine does) still do significant sneak damage, have imp evasion, and even have a super weak barrel breaking dog. Lvl 1 as an Arti and you'll get repeater proficiency straight off. Your runearm won't hit for squat, but it's really there to add extra damage to your xbow and maybe give you some handy thing to craft to it.

MyDDO Skwash on Thelanis if you'd like to see some detail about the build...if it works...it currently doesn't for me.