28pt build Elf & Dwarf - noob needs help

[VAharleygirl]

I've got a L16 (xp stoned) Elf Cleric, who was intended as a battle cleric - she buffs w/ fighting & healing as secondary. I enjoy playing her. But reading through the forums, looks like she'll be a pariah at the upper levels.

I also have a L8 Dwarf Cleric that was made to journey w/ my son's toon, until he got xp stoned for the expansion. She was designed more as a heal bot - which I am finding boring. I play her when my son's at his dad's home w/ no access.

Both are pure-cleric thus far; other than leaving INT at base, and raising WIS to 16-18 at creation it looks like I frakked the other stats. Both have a 10-12 base CHA, as I knew that helps with turning.

I love the inherent cleric/priest classes in the MMOs I've played over the years (EQ1, DAoC, WoW). It just seems in DDO there's not a lot of differences between the various kinds of paths - if you don't want to be a healbot, you'll be up the creek as you level up & a liability or unwanted. But other than hi WIS = Cleric spell, CHA = turn, and STR for hitting vs DEX for rng & getting out of the way, I don't know a lot about D&D much less DDO.

Suggestions? I'd rather not Heart of Wood either. Or do I putter along a while longer, until the rumored enhancement "improvements"? Both do have Radiant Servant 2 & 1, respectively.

The L16 Elf, Damiri

The L8 Dwarf, Damiris or little D

TYIA

[Mubjon]

Well are you placing level up points into Wisdom on both builds? or mixing and matching? Have you taken the free Lesser Reincarnation that was made available to all characters made before U14?

From what I can see you need some equipment on both that will help.

+6 stat items on the Level 16 and the highest + items that you can get for the level 8. Start with Wisdom and Constitution at the very least.

Level 16 equipment to look for

Not sure what packs you have but you should get these stats

Heavy fortification
+6 con item
+6 Wis item
+6 Charisma
Greater false life
Toughness (minos helm from necro IV has this and heavy fortification)

As well ditch the mace and go with long swords, or if you can with the LR take Kopesh for a feat. Might want to consider taking 2 fighter levels to gr ab shield mastery and kopesh or improved shield mastery.

If you have the free LR (go to house Jorasco and speak with Kruz) you will be able to fix your character for free. I would recommend the following for your character (I am taking it that these are 28 pt builds?)

Str - 16 - (5 level ups, +1 tome, +6 item) = 22 strength (if you take fighter 2 you can forego the tome and take fighter strength 1 at second level of fighter)

Dex - 10
Con - 12 (+6 item)
Int - 10
Wis - 14 (+6 item, +2 tome at favor 1750 if you can get it)
Chr - 12 (+6 item)

Feats

1) empower healing
3) maximize
6) toughness
9) quicken
12) shield mastery
15) Kopesh
18) Improved Critical: slash

If you take the 2 fighter levels follow the plan up to 16, save move Kopesh to first fighter level and take empower or extend as those will be the biggest benefit to you. Extend will help with Divine Power and other short melee buffs. Empower will be for bursts, Divine Punishment (great boss spell).

So you would take the first fighter level at 17 and take Kopesh, take the last fighter level at 19 or 20 and take improved shield mastery.

This will help your melee focus cleric be better at melee and you will still be able to help heal raids.

Or if you wish for the high dex, then take the two weapon fighting feats and kopesh to help with melee damage.

the level 8 same thing take the free LR and either go all level ups to Wisdom or Strength, wisdom for casting and healing, strength for melee/heal. And look for that basic equipment that I mentioned keep it maxed, it usually comes at odd levels so at level 9 look for upgrades.

Caster needs different feats though.

Empower Heal
Maximize
Empower
Quicken
Toughness
heighten
Spell pen or SF: Evocation depending on what you wish to do.

You will also get 2 more epic level feats at 21 and 24. You can use them to get either heroic or epic feats if you meet the requirements. You can at least fix them up to be what you want them to be. Just need more information to provide a build plan for you to follow at the lesser reincarnation as well as if you have packs available as there is some nice named loot in some of them.

The free quests in Lordsmarch can give some nice gear called the Wrath of Sora Kell a three piece set that you can get even as a Free 2 play account.

[VAharleygirl]

Well are you placing level up points into Wisdom on both builds? or mixing and matching? Have you taken the free Lesser Reincarnation that was made available to all characters made before U14?

I can't recall. Looking at the L16, I might have put Dex & Con. How does it show under the stat line? (Inherent, Feat, Ench). No to the LR. That's good to know - is there a limit on how many levels/date before that LR freebie expires?

From what I can see you need some equipment on both that will help.

+6 stat items on the Level 16 and the highest + items that you can get for the level 8. Start with Wisdom and Constitution at the very least.

Umm - I haven't seen any - best I've got is a few +4, perhaps a +5, and some +3. I know some +3 have been bumped down to the L8.

Level 16 equipment to look for

Not sure what packs you have but you should get these stats

Heavy fortification
+6 con item
+6 Wis item
+6 Charisma
Greater false life
Toughness (minos helm from necro IV has this and heavy fortification)

As well ditch the mace and go with long swords, or if you can with the LR take Kopesh for a feat. Might want to consider taking 2 fighter levels to gr ab shield mastery and kopesh or improved shield mastery.

I use Long Swords unless blunt is required (skeletons) - or should I not even bother w/ that, to keep encumbrance down?

If you have the free LR (go to house Jorasco and speak with Kruz) you will be able to fix your character for free. I would recommend the following for your character (I am taking it that these are 28 pt builds?)

Yes, both are 28pt builds

Str - 16 - (5 level ups, +1 tome, +6 item) = 22 strength (if you take fighter 2 you can forego the tome and take fighter strength 1 at second level of fighter)

Dex - 10
Con - 12 (+6 item)
Int - 10
Wis - 14 (+6 item, +2 tome at favor 1750 if you can get it)
Chr - 12 (+6 item)

Feats

1) empower healing
3) maximize
6) toughness
9) quicken
12) shield mastery
15) Kopesh
18) Improved Critical: slash

If you take the 2 fighter levels follow the plan up to 16, save move Kopesh to first fighter level and take empower or extend as those will be the biggest benefit to you. Extend will help with Divine Power and other short melee buffs. Empower will be for bursts, Divine Punishment (great boss spell).

So you would take the first fighter level at 17 and take Kopesh, take the last fighter level at 19 or 20 and take improved shield mastery.

This will help your melee focus cleric be better at melee and you will still be able to help heal raids.

Or if you wish for the high dex, then take the two weapon fighting feats and kopesh to help with melee damage.

the level 8 same thing take the free LR and either go all level ups to Wisdom or Strength, wisdom for casting and healing, strength for melee/heal. And look for that basic equipment that I mentioned keep it maxed, it usually comes at odd levels so at level 9 look for upgrades.

Caster needs different feats though.

Empower Heal
Maximize
Empower
Quicken
Toughness
heighten
Spell pen or SF: Evocation depending on what you wish to do.

You will also get 2 more epic level feats at 21 and 24. You can use them to get either heroic or epic feats if you meet the requirements. You can at least fix them up to be what you want them to be. Just need more information to provide a build plan for you to follow at the lesser reincarnation as well as if you have packs available as there is some nice named loot in some of them.

The free quests in Lordsmarch can give some nice gear called the Wrath of Sora Kell a three piece set that you can get even as a Free 2 play account.

I have all packs I believe, as I'm VIP. Why Kopesh? They seem like a rar-ish drop, and isn't that blowing a feat, vs staying with nice Long Swords?

Mainly, I'm wondering about the +6 items - I haven't seen any thus far (few +5 anything), and since these are my only toons, only so much PP flow

Thank you for the input; I look forward to further thoughts.

[Lethaliss]

Unless you've used your free lesser heart of wood you should be able to go to the reincarnation orc in house J and do a free lesser reincarnation.

Myself I prefer to have a healing focused cleric with wis-18, con-16, char-12-14.
Dex really does a cleric little to no good.
Str depends on if you want a melee build and then 2 levels of fighter will get you a couple feats and access to more weapon options.
Wisdom is needed for offensive casting as that is what your Difficulty Checks are based on.

My second life cleric was human, for the extra feat, and has 613 hp and 2257 sp at lvl 20.

Honestly he can solo well and can get through most quests untouched at this point. My melee is poor but offensive casting is good. I rarely heal anymore and only use the aura and bursts as my healing while my SP's go toward offensive casting. Some raids I have to be more mindful of healing but most of the time I can spot heal and use 90% of my SP offensively. And now with the new spell power i just carry an assortment of weapons to help situationally (Devotion for healing and aura, Radiance for light based spells and kinetic for blade barrier)

I haven't played a FvS yet but they seem more ideal as a spell casting or melee based class.

I hope you find what you are looking for as a cleric is a fun and underappreciated class.

[Mubjon]

I can't recall. Looking at the L16, I might have put Dex & Con. How does it show under the stat line? (Inherent, Feat, Ench). No to the LR. That's good to know - is there a limit on how many levels/date before that LR freebie expires?

as far as I know, no. But, if you want to fix the characters now it would be good to do it so you can move ahead. If you want to see some builds I have for melee focus and caster focus to follow I would be happy to share. Clerics are my favorite class in DDO.

Umm - I haven't seen any - best I've got is a few +4, perhaps a +5, and some +3. I know some +3 have been bumped down to the L8.



I use Long Swords unless blunt is required (skeletons) - or should I not even bother w/ that, to keep encumbrance down?

Well having DR breakers is great for melee, I should have asked instead of assuming that you were constantly using a mace.

Check the Auction house for the items in question, or check House D for weapons there is a shop over near the auction house and mailbox there that sells them for a discount. Also House K has a vendor right outside the portal (blue window things that teleport you to the different houses) that sells armor and shields. Check those for the items you seek. Then there are vendors for cloaks, rings, necklaces, bracers, boots, gloves etc in the market place near the trainers at the bottom of the steps.

Yes, both are 28pt builds

that is good to know for build plans. Yes you went to far with some stats that are not important, but that is where the Free LR would come in handy. Check with Kruz on your map once you get into House Jorasco.

I have all packs I believe, as I'm VIP. Why Kopesh? They seem like a rar-ish drop, and isn't that blowing a feat, vs staying with nice Long Swords?

Yes it costs a feat, but the Kopesh has a better crit profile and you can do more damage with them. especially with the double strike from shield mastery and improved shield mastery. The other option is that because you are an elf, take 2 fighter levels for the free feats and then use Scimitars and Falchions as they have a great crit profile and you have enhancements to raise damage and to hit with those weapons.

I would be able to provide you a build if I knew exactly what you wanted to do. As a new cleric you will want to concentrate on healing first and then you can decide to cast (max wisdom or at least 16) or melee (max strength or 16 base)

I would run the Lordsmarch quests on the level 16 first, you will get a lot of loot that is nice to sell on the AH and vendors, as well as some access to decent gear for your level.

Mainly, I'm wondering about the +6 items - I haven't seen any thus far (few +5 anything), and since these are my only toons, only so much PP flow

You will have to find them mostly on the Auction house or check with the vendors that I mentioned above. You want to get them as soon as possible and you can always use the stone of change and bind them to character. Read this page in the wiki to get an idea of what I am talking about.

Thank you for the input; I look forward to further thoughts.

yw and hope those answers help a bit more.

[unbongwah]

It's outdated, but sirgog's cleric build guide still gives you some idea of what the basic cleric archetypes are; as does tihocan's revamped paths thread (cleric section natch). Broadly speaking, you'll encounter two types of cleric builds: casters who focus on high WIS & metamagic feats for offensive spellpower; and battleclerics who focus on high STR & melee feats, with spellcasting restricted to heals, buffs, and the occasional no-save DPS spell or Blade Barrier (which still hurts mobs w/out Evasion even w/low DCs). Properly built, either type can fill the healbotting role, so I consider a pure healbot cleric to be a bad build.

For pure clerics, I prefer the former type; for a battlecleric, I prefer multiclassing (usually with ftr or monk for extra feats). Some builds - like my battleclerics - try to split the difference.

[Occasionally you'll encountered a ranged-based cleric like my Radiant Archer, but that's a more advanced / flavor build and not one I'd necessarily recommend to someone new to clerics.]

[VAharleygirl]

as far as I know, no. But, if you want to fix the characters now it would be good to do it so you can move ahead. If you want to see some builds I have for melee focus and caster focus to follow I would be happy to share. Clerics are my favorite class in DDO.

Well having DR breakers is great for melee, I should have asked instead of assuming that you were constantly using a mace.

Luckily the friend that seduced me into playing, is a long-time D&D player, so he's been able to keep me from making worse mistakes that my limited tabletop exp would cause (I'm mostly a RIFTs & PB-line player). So I have fire sword & clubs, when possible. So I can sword & board or club & board as needed for foes.

Check the Auction house for the items in question, or check House D for weapons there is a shop over near the auction house and mailbox there that sells them for a discount. Also House K has a vendor right outside the portal (blue window things that teleport you to the different houses) that sells armor and shields. Check those for the items you seek. Then there are vendors for cloaks, rings, necklaces, bracers, boots, gloves etc in the market place near the trainers at the bottom of the steps.

Yes it costs a feat, but the Kopesh has a better crit profile and you can do more damage with them. especially with the double strike from shield mastery and improved shield mastery. The other option is that because you are an elf, take 2 fighter levels for the free feats and then use Scimitars and Falchions as they have a great crit profile and you have enhancements to raise damage and to hit with those weapons.

I currently have the Sovereign Host enchantment line, as I had the Longbow/Silver Flame one, but thought the negate effects (incl neg levels & resultant stat hits) would be useful. Moreso than the Resurrect enchantment line. I see the angle for taking a fighter level or two for combat & weapons knowledge.

I would be able to provide you a build if I knew exactly what you wanted to do. As a new cleric you will want to concentrate on healing first and then you can decide to cast (max wisdom or at least 16) or melee (max strength or 16 base)

I would run the Lordsmarch quests on the level 16 first, you will get a lot of loot that is nice to sell on the AH and vendors, as well as some access to decent gear for your level.

The L16 = battle cleric. Which to my mind & playing style is that I battle-buff the group, and can handle the occasional runaway that gets in the support-group's face long enough for the tank to re-pull aggro; or while in a lower-level dungeon she can dish (& kinda take) damage to mobs. I've found that these type don't seem to do so well as a primary healer, but do OK for enjoyment & ability w/ healing in tandem w/ another (i.e., I'm responsible for a person or two, or to heal the healer). I know I dumped a couple points perhaps into DEX, cuz I know elves = LngBow, and another way to minimize incoming fuglies. OH - and this one has "Eschew Materials" feat. I had taken Zen Archery, so I'm cool w/ swapping that for a different feat. But EM seems to be very useful compared to my L8 who has to have components, and only so big a backpack (if they ever made an "component bag", would help a lot).

The L8 = more caster type. Which I enjoy, but I'm a bit handicapped in that I don't know D&D spells all that well, so aside from basic fire/ice, and holy/light type spells & the obvious mobs weak to which, I am definitely a noob. So far, I haven't seen a "guide" a la EQ/DAOC/WOW that maps out areas & info w/o needing to have another monitor up & running.

So with this additional info, what do you suggest for the rerolled start-stats for each gal?

edit: Looking at different other things, including the cleric builds linked in this thread - I'm thinking that the L16 elf may be better suited as a healing nuker, and the L8 dwarf as the healing melee.

I am also curious why "everyone" seems to not bother w/ CHA, when that affects your turning, which is one of the main purposes of a cleric (or is to my mind & what I've been told for the past 30 years, and blasting undead to bits gives me great glee).

[Mubjon]

Luckily the friend that seduced me into playing, is a long-time D&D player, so he's been able to keep me from making worse mistakes that my limited tabletop exp would cause (I'm mostly a RIFTs & PB-line player). So I have fire sword & clubs, when possible. So I can sword & board or club & board as needed for foes.

well there are times where going 2-handed makes more sense, especially if you are not taking the feats to make sword & board optimal. Mostly taking the shield mastery feats as they grant double strike now.

I currently have the Sovereign Host enchantment line, as I had the Longbow/Silver Flame one, but thought the negate effects (incl neg levels & resultant stat hits) would be useful. Moreso than the Resurrect enchantment line. I see the angle for taking a fighter level or two for combat & weapons knowledge.

The only time I would not take the Sovereign host line is if I was going to use longbows for an arcane archer cleric. Taking the elf melee enhancements though are nice as you can get the Undying faith line for access to scimitars and falchions which have very nice crit profiles. Plus if you do what I do and splash a wizard level you can get 20 extra SP and +1 spell pen for 1 action point. Plus access to arcane wand buffs and some scrolls. Plus bonus to Spell points from the intelligent stat.

The L16 = battle cleric. Which to my mind & playing style is that I battle-buff the group, and can handle the occasional runaway that gets in the support-group's face long enough for the tank to re-pull aggro; or while in a lower-level dungeon she can dish (& kinda take) damage to mobs. I've found that these type don't seem to do so well as a primary healer, but do OK for enjoyment & ability w/ healing in tandem w/ another (i.e., I'm responsible for a person or two, or to heal the healer). I know I dumped a couple points perhaps into DEX, cuz I know elves = LngBow, and another way to minimize incoming fuglies. OH - and this one has "Eschew Materials" feat. I had taken Zen Archery, so I'm cool w/ swapping that for a different feat. But EM seems to be very useful compared to my L8 who has to have components, and only so big a backpack (if they ever made an "component bag", would help a lot).

All clerics can be a primary healer if you have 17 levels of cleric. My level 17/2/1 cleric can heal all content, especially with a competent party. Then, he gets to cast offensively or do damage with weapons. If you wanted to concentrate on melee with this character and have that free LR I would do the following at the change.

Stats -

Str - 16
Dex - 10
Con - 12
Int - 8
Wis - 14
Chr - 14

Then you will need a +6 item to strength, con, wisdom and charisma. This will allow you to take Divine Might I that will add a bit of damage to your melee attacks, as well as have plenty of turns to operate bursts and aura.

Cleric Feats

empower healing - Level 1 need this for radiant servant
toughness - level 3
Maximize - Level 6 - this is to help with bursts and aura
quicken - level 9 - for bursts, blade barrier, mass heal
Shield Mastery - level 12
extend - level 15 this is for the short term melee buffs like divine power and recitation that you will want to run almost all the time to help with melee'ing

At level 17 take a level of fighter and take

improved shield mastery

Level 18 take cleric and take

improved critical: slashing

at level 20 take Fighter again and take

power attack or improved shield bash - power attack will allow you to use up to 5 attack to 5 damage to attacks or 10 damage if you use two handed weapons like the falchion. Improved shield bash gives you a 20% chance to get an attack in with your shield while attacking with a melee weapon.

lvl 21 - take whatever you want could be empower to help make the aura and bursts better or help boost divine punishment. I would take empower myself as divine punishment is just that awesome.

lvl 24 same as 21. What ever you like here.

Enchanments are simple

Life magic III
1 each of the critical line for life magic
Smiting damage IV
Smiting crit lines at least 2
Divine might 1
Scroll and wand 2 at least
improved turning

I might be missing someting above for the Radiant Servant line, so just double chekc before you take anything by showing all enhancements and finding cleric radiant servant I and II to ensure you get all the enhancements you need.

Fighter Strength
Elven enhancements for Valenar - This is so you get up to +2 attack and damage with scimitars help off set the use of power attack.
Racial toughness

anything left up to you but those will help you with getting radiant servant II and melee.

Once you reach cap, you will be 18/2 cleric/fighter. You will want to more than likely go with the Unyielding Sentinel Destiny to start with. I think VIP get access to that, not sure as I bought the expansion pack as I am premium.

The L8 = more caster type. Which I enjoy, but I'm a bit handicapped in that I don't know D&D spells all that well, so aside from basic fire/ice, and holy/light type spells & the obvious mobs weak to which, I am definitely a noob. So far, I haven't seen a "guide" a la EQ/DAOC/WOW that maps out areas & info w/o needing to have another monitor up & running.

So with this additional info, what do you suggest for the rerolled start-stats for each gal?

This was the dwarf right? So for the stats on this one I would do the following

Str - 12
dex - 8
Con - 16
int - 12
wis - 16
Chr - 10

I would also splash a level of wizard at level 9 so that you can gain an extra meta magic feat, +20% to blade barrier damage from the force damage enhancement line.

Feats would look like this

lvl 1 Empower healing -
lvl 3 Maximize
lvl 6 empower
lvl 9 toughness, Wizard feat quicken (this is the level you splash one wizard level)
lvl 12 shield mastery
lvl 15 Spell focus evocation
lvl 18 heighten
lvl 21 spell pen
lvl 24 greater spell focus evocation

This list is for a caster type cleric that will cast mostly blade barrier for trash and divine punishment for bosses. The spell pen is to help if you cast destruction

Enhancements -

Make sure you get everything you need for radiant servant.
Racial toughness
Dwarven Faith II - extra Spell points
Divine Vitality - help out fellow spell casters with spell points.
Scroll and Wand III
Smiting damage line IV
Smiting crit lines III
Force enhancement I
Spell pen enhancement line at least II
Cleric Spell point line at least II
Extra Turn IV if you have enough or at least II

edit: Looking at different other things, including the cleric builds linked in this thread - I'm thinking that the L16 elf may be better suited as a healing nuker, and the L8 dwarf as the healing melee.

I am also curious why "everyone" seems to not bother w/ CHA, when that affects your turning, which is one of the main purposes of a cleric (or is to my mind & what I've been told for the past 30 years, and blasting undead to bits gives me great glee).

If you want to switch them up that is possible, just swap stats and class break down. The Dwarf will be using dwarven axes and shield instead with the 2 fighter levels. As they have axe damage and attack enhancement line.