The New Monster (Smrti TR'd Again)

[Munkenmo]

I was just about to reroll, tears in my eyes and finger over the button.

Then I realized you are from Sarlona.

with a paladin in my bio

[Blank_Zero]

Depends how often you use Haste Boost against trash. Against bosses, you'd need to work out fort and DR - which is really tricky with all the debuffs. Improved Deception is also a factor and sneak damage is bit part of 7 Rogue dps. Golden Guile may mean no Kyosho and whatever factors to consider.

Double-strike from items may be a factor as well - likely favour the higher main hand dmg on the fighter build.

Personally, 12 ranger with a LR+3 sound like a nice way to get some rogue PLs on a khopesh build without having to invest in the artificer method, and still be useful at end game for a while.

There's honestly a TON of factors. We could throw in Helpless mob DPS, non-FE, Undead with 100% Fort, What debuffs are considered, etc.

After all is said an done, the 12/6/2 was my first serious build. This was back during U3 when I finally started playing (originally got the box game when I was 16, but couldn't get into it back then in '06 with no real income). I've TR'd Smrti to keep up with all the changes (U5, HOrcs released, WF HP/Threat Tanks Supreme) and I finally came back to where I started, and it rocks. If some build has 1% higher DPS, I'm not worried. If it was 10% I'd think about it, but TRing and losing my favorite build to date and having to TR for 7 more dmg a swing seems silly to me :P

with a paladin in my bio

I think you should probably reroll IRL man. I feel for you.

[Zeklijan]

Hey Blank!

This is one aspect we love of the game, right? Customize your own character - and make it the way you want it to be.

So I was looking trough and, here's my thoughts:

I know you took ranger levels because you like to have a bow option, otherwise whats the point :P. But with the changes to Spell points from past lives/items that came with u14, it means you don't 'need' to be a 6 ranger levels for your Arcane Archer anymore. You will probably need another feat though - maybe a past life even. If you are cool with that it opens many new possibilities with the half elf race, who gets the prestige class innately.


Now you may think; but what's the point?

And here's my answer:
-12 fighter 6 monk 2 rogue/arti, keeping rogue(preferably arti) levels for UMD, artificer gets scroll and wands mastery as enhancement and a basic SP pool to help you out in this domain. Not to mention arti levels refrain you from needing past life feats as you can take toughness, and monk gets you 3 feats, AND 10k stars, 5% double strikes, etc

-If you like bow to be close distance, you could get 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk. This grants 5d6 Sneak attack damage which can increase melee/bow DPS, and the basic monk stances

-Or, you could always get 12 fighter 6 barbarian 2 rogue, this gives you access to basic rages some more HP and more melee abilities.


I'm not sure if you TR'd yet, but those things are just a few ideas that might interest you.
Oh by the way, I didn't see stunning blow in your list of things, with fighter levels and kensei, and high strenght you can get a really decent stun blow, I think it's worth it

[Blank_Zero]

Hey Blank!

This is one aspect we love of the game, right? Customize your own character - and make it the way you want it to be.

So I was looking trough and, here's my thoughts:

I know you took ranger levels because you like to have a bow option, otherwise whats the point :P. But with the changes to Spell points from past lives/items that came with u14, it means you don't 'need' to be a 6 ranger levels for your Arcane Archer anymore. You will probably need another feat though - maybe a past life even. If you are cool with that it opens many new possibilities with the half elf race, who gets the prestige class innately.


Now you may think; but what's the point?

And here's my answer:
-12 fighter 6 monk 2 rogue/arti, keeping rogue(preferably arti) levels for UMD, artificer gets scroll and wands mastery as enhancement and a basic SP pool to help you out in this domain. Not to mention arti levels refrain you from needing past life feats as you can take toughness, and monk gets you 3 feats, AND 10k stars, 5% double strikes, etc

-If you like bow to be close distance, you could get 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk. This grants 5d6 Sneak attack damage which can increase melee/bow DPS, and the basic monk stances

-Or, you could always get 12 fighter 6 barbarian 2 rogue, this gives you access to basic rages some more HP and more melee abilities.


I'm not sure if you TR'd yet, but those things are just a few ideas that might interest you.
Oh by the way, I didn't see stunning blow in your list of things, with fighter levels and kensei, and high strenght you can get a really decent stun blow, I think it's worth it

Thanks for the feedback! A few things in reply.

1. I'm not an AA. Never have been. Never will be. That being said, I love having the ranged option available if needed. Ranger 6 gives me so much more though. Free itwf, free bow feats, favored enemy, rams might, but the biggest thing I have noticed is the 90% offhand proc. This, plus everything I have mentioned, is plenty of reason to go for my split

I have done the blitz build before. I have even modified it last life when warforged HP/hate tanks were all the rage.

I don't like relying too heavily on sneak attack personally, hence the low rogue levels. It really helps while soloing.

And I do have stunning blow! I'll edit the OP later to include that. I even got myself a Drow khopesh with Stunning+10 to help it out.

[Khellendros13]

I wouldn't change the level split, the mix of DPS and survivability is pretty nice. Getting lvl 11 resists is rather nice though, and the adrenaline+manyshot has me considering an LR from 18/2 fighter rogue. Probably try out SD2 on the way since it will be 2 LR's anyway.

I think a big part of having high DPS is knowing the build you are playing and how to squeeze it all out, and when to swap a few pieces of gear in. To that effect don't go the rogue route

[maddong]

How does your melee adrenaline compare to your manyshot adrenaline?
Would a drow heavy pick work better with adrenaline than the khopesh?

[Zeklijan]

Thanks for the feedback! A few things in reply.

1. I'm not an AA. Never have been. Never will be. That being said, I love having the ranged option available if needed. Ranger 6 gives me so much more though. Free itwf, free bow feats, favored enemy, rams might, but the biggest thing I have noticed is the 90% offhand proc. This, plus everything I have mentioned, is plenty of reason to go for my split

I have done the blitz build before. I have even modified it last life when warforged HP/hate tanks were all the rage.

I don't like relying too heavily on sneak attack personally, hence the low rogue levels. It really helps while soloing.

And I do have stunning blow! I'll edit the OP later to include that. I even got myself a Drow khopesh with Stunning+10 to help it out.

cool^^

[Anthios888]

This is a great build this update. Nice job writing it all up. I'm glad that DPS is back again.

You thought about improved critical: ranged instead of the last strength point? Or Hamstring? Or power critical? You should consider the last because with drow khopeshes, you're likely looking at 2 damage per swing instead of +1 from the strength bracket. Potentially you could also save 4-6 AP from strength enhancements.

Looking over your feat list, I was surprised that you went with human with an extra feat. Then again, they are a lot cuter than half elves, and have more healing amplification than half orc. I do like that this is a build you can make work with any race.

To the noobs looking at this thread, you can make this work with free to play races like human dwarf, halfling even without the 36 point build and epic gear.

p.s. I run around town in white dragonhide instead of epic marilith chain on my bard because of how good it looks with the drow khopeshes. Glad I'm not the only one that vain

[RS-Makk]

If someone can provide numbers of the 12ra/7ro/1x compared to mine and they are impressive enough, I may consider an LR path lol. I can't stomach another TR right now tbh.

That's the build I ran my main for a looong time (used to be an exploiter that I LR'd to 12ranger /7 rogue / 1 monk). I don't have the numbers, but it was lots of fun, and I found myself pulling aggro often vs raid bosses and such. But.. on the downside what I didn't like was that it was on the squishy side, and the lower DPS vs. non-FE.

I just TR'd into 12 fighter / 7 rogue / 1 TBD (currently planning for monk for the feat), human (and I have the full Shadowdancer line unlocked ready for me when I hit 20 again). I am keeping my fingers crossed that come the enhancement pass they do in fact allow humans to select any racial PrE, and that the drow PrE really ends up being Tempest. Because if that happens, Kensai 2 / Tempest 2 (?) with all the nice SA from 7 rogue levels + shadowdaner seems very very tasty to me. It allows me to leverage some of the gear I had, but I feel it allows me to keep high DPS, against all enemies without having to worry about FE status, while reducing squishiness. This build also allows me to bring Tactics into my play, and I'm thinking all that SA will be wonderful vs. stunned enemies. I have not run the numbers.. but in principle it sounds like it'll be real nice.

[maddmatt70]

12 fighter will be nerfed come update 16 with the enhancement pass so be prepared to tr one more time at that point.

Edit: I have a problem with cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical on a two weapon fighting build. First, I think that cleave and great cleave are not worth it and probably detract from dps on a two weapon fightin build even and that is with momentum and lay waste from dreadnaught. Overwhelming critical is currently broken and if it were not that is 3 feats for extra critical multiplier on 19 and 20 so not sure that is worth it since the other two feats are garbage.

[Ape_Man]

12 fighter will be nerfed come update 16 with the enhancement pass so be prepared to tr one more time at that point.

You're probably right but this is Turbine so he's got at least a year before we see the enhancement pass

[Anthios888]

12 fighter will be nerfed come update 16 with the enhancement pass so be prepared to tr one more time at that point.

Edit: I have a problem with cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical on a two weapon fighting build. First, I think that cleave and great cleave are not worth it and probably detract from dps on a two weapon fightin build even and that is with momentum and lay waste from dreadnaught. Overwhelming critical is currently broken and if it were not that is 3 feats for extra critical multiplier on 19 and 20 so not sure that is worth it since the other two feats are garbage.

Last build I saw the math on was 13 damage a swing. That's worth it, especially on a high STR build like this.

Why do you think 12 fighter will be nerfed?

[emptysands]

Edit: I have a problem with cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical on a two weapon fighting build.

What to replace Cleave and Great Cleave with?

If you copy my spreadsheet you can change the numbers yourself, however it is setup for OC at the moment.

With OC it is 255.27 per swing, without OC it is 240.56 per swing. This is ignoring everything else and with no twists and item seeker +6. For example with IPA it is 262.32 vs 247.19. With item seeker +10 it is 262.87 vs 247.40, with seeker+10 and IPA it is 269.92 vs 254.03.

Note: My sheet is not setup for vorpal procs yet - so manslayer is not calculated into the numbers.

[Blank_Zero]

This is a great build this update. Nice job writing it all up. I'm glad that DPS is back again.

You thought about improved critical: ranged instead of the last strength point? Or Hamstring? Or power critical? You should consider the last because with drow khopeshes, you're likely looking at 2 damage per swing instead of +1 from the strength bracket. Potentially you could also save 4-6 AP from strength enhancements.

Looking over your feat list, I was surprised that you went with human with an extra feat. Then again, they are a lot cuter than half elves, and have more healing amplification than half orc. I do like that this is a build you can make work with any race.

To the noobs looking at this thread, you can make this work with free to play races like human dwarf, halfling even without the 36 point build and epic gear.

p.s. I run around town in white dragonhide instead of epic marilith chain on my bard because of how good it looks with the drow khopeshes. Glad I'm not the only one that vain

Glad you like it! That feels like high praise to me

I could swap Great STR out easily tbh. I took it as a placeholder, but now that I am Fury fulltime, I gt an odd STR score when using the Scream. I'll look into those feat choices. Power Crit hadn't crossed my mind because of how god-awful it has been right up until now :P

I went Human because I LOVE feats. HElf is close, but with the Enhancement update coming up, I figured Human would be as close as I could get to "future-proofing". That, and Smrti was originally a human some 2+ years ago when I started this game :P HOrc was fun for Life 2, but I value my survivabik=lity over my DPS when it's that marginal. If I was THF, HOrc all the way, but on a TWF, HElf or Human is much better imho.

F2P, I'd still go Human. Heal Amp is waaaay better than an extra 20+ HP at cap.

I will wear my White DragonHide forever! I almost don't like swapping to my Frozen Tunic with Armor Kit because of how good it looks! :/

12 fighter will be nerfed come update 16 with the enhancement pass so be prepared to tr one more time at that point.

Edit: I have a problem with cleave, great cleave, and overwhelming critical on a two weapon fighting build. First, I think that cleave and great cleave are not worth it and probably detract from dps on a two weapon fightin build even and that is with momentum and lay waste from dreadnaught. Overwhelming critical is currently broken and if it were not that is 3 feats for extra critical multiplier on 19 and 20 so not sure that is worth it since the other two feats are garbage.

I'm not sure it will be THAT nerfed. And if it is, I will LR out to something more appropriate. I cannot STAND TRing, so I'd rather spend the TP to swap levels than to go through the grind again :/

As for the Cleaves, I REALLY like them myself. It's very easy to use them, especially seeing as I have Spring Attack. I like to open up a fight with Adrenaline+Great Cleave. It trips for 6 seconds with my setup and hits in a VERY wide Arc, which increases overall DPS. Plus, it helps me get threat when shortmanning. I like tanking still, even if it's just HP Tanking. Call it a playstyle choice, but I like it and don't have too many other feats to take anymore personally.

That's the build I ran my main for a looong time (used to be an exploiter that I LR'd to 12ranger /7 rogue / 1 monk). I don't have the numbers, but it was lots of fun, and I found myself pulling aggro often vs raid bosses and such. But.. on the downside what I didn't like was that it was on the squishy side, and the lower DPS vs. non-FE.

I just TR'd into 12 fighter / 7 rogue / 1 TBD (currently planning for monk for the feat), human (and I have the full Shadowdancer line unlocked ready for me when I hit 20 again). I am keeping my fingers crossed that come the enhancement pass they do in fact allow humans to select any racial PrE, and that the drow PrE really ends up being Tempest. Because if that happens, Kensai 2 / Tempest 2 (?) with all the nice SA from 7 rogue levels + shadowdaner seems very very tasty to me. It allows me to leverage some of the gear I had, but I feel it allows me to keep high DPS, against all enemies without having to worry about FE status, while reducing squishiness. This build also allows me to bring Tactics into my play, and I'm thinking all that SA will be wonderful vs. stunned enemies. I have not run the numbers.. but in principle it sounds like it'll be real nice.

The Enhancement Pass will really make or break a lot of builds, but until it happens, I'll stick what I have. I agree on the squishy feelings. I get that if I go under 700 HP myself :P




Honestly, my build sits at almost 800 HP with 1 toughness. I can trip Spiders on EH. I can stun anything really, and if I can't, Imp Sunder lets me do it eventually. I have versatility to save the party from wiping via scrolls. I can solo almost anything on EH at this point with scrolls on myself + a Devotion Item if I need it (I know it's a bug, but **** it is a nice one.)

It works for me overall and I'm really happy with how it turned out considering how bummed I was about the AC changes.

[maddmatt70]

Last build I saw the math on was 13 damage a swing. That's worth it, especially on a high STR build like this.

Do not get me wrong I think these are great on a two hander build and I pretty much would recommend them on any two hander build in the game. For two weapon fighting the combination of reach, no offhand, activation time, and dps actually generated leads me to believe that 13 is on the high end for any estimate sure.

The issue becomes what should a two weapon fighting build take instead both for destiny enhancements and feats? In the Dreadnaught tree there are some great destiny enhancements which add alot of dps for non fighter builds and fighter builds instead such as the boosts, weapon types damage, crit range, etc. For other destinies there are other dps bumps that reduce fortification or etc. For two weapon fighting fighters I am really disatisified with the epic destinies generally. I am excited about my two weapon fighting paladin more then my 12 fighter 6 barbarian 2 rogue haha.

It is unclear what feats are better. For a paladin or barbarian where feats are more limited there are more options (although barbarians have to take cleave anyway). For a two weapon fighting fighter with alot of feats I am holding out for more feat options. I was dreaming up potential new feats like an alternative two weapon fighting chain that gave offhand damage and led to overwhelming critical or an alteration of whirlwind to make that more the two weapon fighting dps feat of choice. Obviously, Sunder, stun, hamstring on rogues, etc..

Why do you think 12 fighter will be nerfed?

3 things: 1. I have a very limited understand of the new enhancement pass but is the 6/12/18 prestige enhancement format going away? It may be possible to get power surge at level 10 or perhaps 15 depending on where the devs decide to put it for example.
2. The devs seem to want to make this more of a pure class game in my opinion. The recent change to the defender stances is a good example as the level 12 stance got nerfed.
3. 12 fighter is on the overpowered side not unlike 6 monk for archers so it would not surprise me if that got a nerf or an alteration.

[Ape_Man]

it's not 12 fighter that'll be the issue with the "monster" builds when the ENH pass occurs . . . it'll be 6 ranger.

The 6 ranger splash will require 2 "trees" to get it's mojo (tempest tree and Deepwood sniper as the devs indicated Favored enemy damage will be in this tree) which won't make it worth it when you can take Tempest III on an 18/2 as a human racial (possibly) or some other combination that's even better.

6 ranger is still a strong splash even with the tempest nerfs from many moons ago . . . 10% more off-hand attacks and +3/+9 damage a swing (non-FEs/FEs) is strong.

Come the enhancement pass we'll simply have better options.

[Dwarfo]

The 6 ranger splash will require 2 "trees" to get it's mojo (tempest tree and Deepwood sniper as the devs indicated Favored enemy damage will be in this tree) which won't make it worth it when you can take Tempest III on an 18/2 as a human racial (possibly) or some other combination that's even better.

I think drow was supposed to get the tempest line.

Squishy drow.

[Ape_Man]

I think drow was supposed to get the tempest line.

Squishy drow.

Drow are getting it as a racial but human/helf might get access to ALL racial PREs. Time will tell.

[RS-Makk]

Right - at some point I guess some dev stated that Tempest would be the drow Pre, and all Pre's would be available to humans (with some investment in racial enhancements first), as well as helves (with a much larger investment in racial enhancements first). We'll have to wait and see I guess. I just TR'd, but I have a feeling that after the enhancement pass I may want to TR again.

[maddong]

How does your melee adrenaline compare to your manyshot adrenaline?
Would a drow heavy pick work better with adrenaline than the khopesh?