Increase the base XP by 50% for the following quests

[MRMechMan]

Level1:
The Cannith Crystal*
Redemption

Level2:
Garrisons Missing Pack
Misery's Peak**
Arachnophobia**
Smugglers Warehouse
The entire baudry chain

Level3:
Kobold Assault*
The Cloven-jaw Scourge: Blockade
The Sacred Helm*

Level4:
Rest for the Restless
The Bookbinder Rescue

Level5:
A Small Problem
Most of 3BC (Except Ghost of a Chance)

Level6:
Gladewatch Outpost Defense
Valak's Mausoleum*
Sorrowdusk parts 1-2

Level7:
Taming the Flames
Sorrowdusk parts 3-4

Level8:
Caverns of Korromar
The Faithful Departed*
All threnal

Level9:
The Church and the Cult
The Keeper's Sanctuary*
All threnal

Level10:
Hiding in Plain Sight*
All threnal
Hold for Reinforcements**

Level11:
From Beyond the Grave
Made to Order
The Spawn of Whisperdoom

Level12:
Chains of Flame
The Titan Awakes*

Level13:
-

Level14:
The Reaver's Fate

Level15:
Acid Wit

Level16:
Spinner of Shadows

Level17:
Ascension Chamber*
The Lord of Eyes
The Lord of Stone

Level18:
Hound of Xoriat
A Vision of Destruction

Level19:
Blown to Bits
Bastion of Power
Power Play**
Schemes of the Enemy
The Master Artificer**
The Weapons Shipment*

Level20:
Tower of Despair
The Lord of Blades*

*=consider doubling, it's that bad.
**=consider tripling, it's that bad.


Reasoning usually falls into one of three general categories:

Category 1: It's just low for the time invested.
Gladewatch defense, Kobold Assault, Power play, Taming the flames, A small problem, The sacred helm, the 15min threnal one all fall into this category. You finish the quest, it took 3, 5 or 10x as long as other quests of the level, and you got similar or less XP. These quests take a while and then you need a microscope to see the reward on your xp bar. While they usually aren't the most challenging content at each level, they are timesinks and should be boosted to make them worth running.

I honestly don't think the devs ever envisioned 3minute shadow crypts, 1-2minute GH quests and 4 minute running with the devils, etc etc...they didn't anticipate how fast this game can play, and so timed quests generally give poor xp rewards in comparision, and not just for zergers or elite players; even in slower groups, these quests are subpar.

Category 2: Obnoxious quest mechanics or high difficulty.
Faithful departed, Threnal, Made to order, The Keepers sanctuary, Valak's Mausoleum, Bastion of power, bookbinders rescue, etc. Quests that either involve protecting NPCs, or need a trapper, or have difficult/tricky quest mechanics need to reward players for running them. When was the last time you saw an at-level lfm for one of these quests? It's very rare, as the rewards are not worth it. Why do the entire threnal chain when a handful of shadowcrypts gets similar XP and can be done in under 1/4 of the time with no headaches?

Category 3: Raids.
Titan, Reavers fate, Abbot, HOX, VOD, MA and LOB have a special reason for why their xp should be doubled- they are raids. Doing a raid at level, particularly on elite, requires incredible coordination, organization, gear, skill, knowledge from everyone involved, as well as good leadership. If you successfully complete any of these raids at level, you deserve massive compensation for your xp bar, because you have done something great.

Currently that is not the case-the average base XP of these 7 raids, on elite, is a pathetic 6.6k. Considering how difficult and time consuming it is to find a group to do an at level raid, the XP involved is usually incredibly underwhelming. You would think a character would learn and adapt and grow more from fighting the most bada$$ of villans the world of ebberon can supply than from the 3minute 11th run of shadow crypt.

This increase should include epic MA and ELOB. EVON5+6 currently gives well over double what ELOB gives, and over 3x what epic MA gives. Considering the obnoxious wilderness and difficulty finding a group compared to EVON, this is puzzling to me, particularly as epic MA and ELOB are at least as time consuming.

While I realize that dev focus is about as far from the 1-19 game as it has ever been, I think that making all content xp-viable is something that is important. This really should have been done a long time ago.

[der_kluge]

I tend to agree. Although, it does seem like maybe some of the 3BC quests got better XP with this last update. I seem to recall getting *decent* XP from the fire caves.

Otherwise - yes, you are spot on.

/signed

[Fefnir_2011]

Other than the fact that this list isn't necessarily comprehensive, i absolutely agree.

[Mr.Spark]

/signed

I can't stand that ALL of house C's quests now have **** for exp...this obviously needs to be fixed...

I've heard no one runs ToD flagging because its too hard for its horrid exp (idk how true this is)

[redspecter23]

I'd have to say I agree with most of your list. However, I don't mind low xp if there is another compelling reason to be there. If a quest has amazing loot and/or a ton of chests, I don't mind lower xp. There is a tradeoff. Unfortunately, in DDO, often the quests with great xp also seem to have a ton of chests (Von3). So, yes, I think certain quests need a bump, but that bump could come in a form other than xp and I could find myself running it more often.

A few specific examples I disagree with.

Threnal. Some of the quests here are great xp/min. Some *cough* protect Coyle *cough* need more than a multiplier. They need a whole new xp total attached to it. The xp is so low that multiplying by 10 probably wouldn't save it.

I think The Church and the Cult could use a 3x multiplier at minimum. It's a great quest, but the xp is just wretched. If you zerged and completed in 2 minutes, you would probably still be disappointed currently.

Sorrowdusk 3 and 4 I find to be reasonable without being over the top. 1 and 2, while low are forgivable as they are fast easy ways to keep your elite streak going.

Acid Wit I think needs a much higher xp incentive. It's a boring quest which is even more boring and long each time you run it somehow. I'd triple it at minimum.

Everything at level 19 needs serious help. Whoever originally calculated the xp for those quests must have left a 0 out by mistake or something. Hyperbole aside for a moment, they should all be much higher. Make us want to run these for xp instead of once to flag.

I'm not certain I agree that all raids need an xp boost. Reaver is quite nice if you can do it at level. LoB on the other hand is a laughable joke. As mentioned above, someone was afraid of giving this a real xp total and just decided to copy/paste waterworks part 3 for some reason.

[Therrias]

XP should scale linearly by CR with adjustments made for quest length and quest difficulty.

Isn't it weird that the best quests for XP are in the level 8-10 range?

[Jasparion]

For a list of dungeons which really need help, I think the OP has done an excellent job.

This really is something Turbine should look at. The zerger TRs who chain run the same dungeons over and over can continue to do so, but the people who like to run all the content in the game can now not feel like they are pretty much wasting their time in many of the dungeons.

[Zephea]

Poison? I think it's a level 5 quest.

Also certain parts of Threnal don't need an increase as they are very fast.

[MRMechMan]

Poison? I think it's a level 5 quest.

Also certain parts of Threnal don't need an increase as they are very fast.

Threnal competes with potential 3-5k/min+ shadow crypt, von3 and fathom the depths. 8-13 is so chalk full of great xp that low XP quests are not even an afterthought even for multi TRs.

I am not saying every group will get that much xp/min, but in general group composition doesn't matter; good quests are good and bad quests are bad-and for 1st and even 2nd lifers, a few runs of von3/SC that they are way past the level where threnal is relevant.

You are not wrong. some parts of threnal are decent, even good, but for most part it needs a boost across the board to make the trip out there worthwhile. Mantle is the only carrot and usually once I have it I give threnal the big middle finger as there is no other reason to go there.

[Hikup]

While the change would be nice, how would it generate revenue for turbine?

[danotmano1998]

XP should scale linearly by CR with adjustments made for quest length and quest difficulty.

Isn't it weird that the best quests for XP are in the level 8-10 range?

EXTREMELY. Always wondered myself why the last 2 levels of questing (PRE U14) contain the worst XP ratio. It's silly, and IMO, poorly designed.

[CaptainSpacePony]

The list looks pretty good to me.

[MRMechMan]

While the change would be nice, how would it generate revenue for turbine?

Easy. Everyone already has the high XP packs. Von, necro2 etc sell well.

How many people buy threnal? Not many, because its a sack of dung.

They need to undung it. In general giving more XP will hurt XP pot sales as it makes them less useful, but people aren't running this content anyway, so really isn't a major gain.

EXTREMELY. Always wondered myself why the last 2 levels of questing (PRE U14) contain the worst XP ratio. It's silly, and IMO, poorly designed.

Well same reason as Hikup is implying...the soulcrushing grind of 18-20 is incentive to hold levels and get as much XP as you can via tomes/pots to avoid that.

I don't know how much more XP this really gives to help the 18-20 grind, but would help a bit, possibly. House C quests in particular are shameful. When they first came out I was excited, 18-19 content to allievate the grind! I asked a guildy how they were XP-wise. He said worse than amrath. I bought it anyway...and so did many others. Jokes on us, I suppose.

A high XP pack would kill off xp pot sales too much I guess. Sort of suprised reavers has not gotten nerfed yet to be honest.

[janave]

I agree with most of the quest picks. Also nice arguments on the Raid xp, some currently give nothing rewarding to do them at-level, xp is an easy fix.

/signed

[FranOhmsford]

Level1:
The Cannith Crystal* Doesn't need doubling - 50% I'll agree
Redemption This isn't bad xp comparatively + is a required quest so no need to make changes so people run it - Disagree

Level2:
Garrisons Missing Pack Heck yes - Agree
Misery's Peak** Triple XP? You can't be serious? Isn't this the highest base xp quest at Lvl 2 already? Yes Ringleader and Info is Key are much shorter quests that give great xp/min but MP is fine as is in my view - Vehemently disagree
Arachnophobia* Agreed
The entire baudry chain Pt 1 Yes, Pt 2 Nah, Pt 3 Yes - Agree Partially

Level3:
Kobold Assault* Agreed
The Cloven-jaw Scourge: Blockade Agreed
The Sacred Helm* Double XP not needed - tbh not sure 50% really needed - Disagreed

Level4:
Rest for the Restless Agreed
The Bookbinder Rescue Triple it

Level5:
A Small Problem Actually has high base XP but an extra 50% wouldn't go amiss considering - Agreed
Most of 3BC (Except Ghost of a Chance) Pt 1 of the Fire Caves is huge XP, Pt 2 could do with being on Par though, The rest of the Cove = Agreed + Guard Duty needs to be Tripled

Level6:
Gladewatch Outpost Defense Agreed
Valak's Mausoleum* Agreed
Sorrowdusk parts 1-2 Disagree

Level7:
Taming the Flames Agreed
Sorrowdusk parts 3-4 Agreed

Level8:
Caverns of Korromar Agreed
The Faithful Departed* Agreed
All threnal No - Just Hold for Reinforcements

Level9:
The Church and the Cult Agreed
The Keeper's Sanctuary* Agreed
All threnal No - Just Hold for Reinforcements

Level10:
Hiding in Plain Sight* Agreed
All threnal No - Just Hold for Reinforcements
Hold for Reinforcements** Ah! Here it is - Agreed

Level11:
From Beyond the Grave Agreed
Made to Order Agreed
The Spawn of Whisperdoom Agreed

Level12:
Chains of Flame Disagree
The Titan Awakes* Agreed

Level13:
-

Level14:
The Reaver's Fate Agreed

Level15:
Acid Wit Agreed

Level16:
Spinner of Shadows Agreed

Level17:
Ascension Chamber* Never run it - Agreement reserved
The Lord of Eyes Agreed
The Lord of Stone Agreed

Level18:
Hound of Xoriat Agreed
A Vision of Destruction Agreed

Level19:
Blown to Bits Agreed
Bastion of Power Agreed
Power Play** Agreed
Schemes of the Enemy Agreed
The Master Artificer** Agreed
The Weapons Shipment* Agreed

Level20:
Tower of Despair Never run it - Agreement reserved
The Lord of Blades* Never run it - Agreement reserved

*=consider doubling, it's that bad.
**=consider tripling, it's that bad.


Reasoning usually falls into one of three general categories:

Category 1: It's just low for the time invested.
Gladewatch defense, Kobold Assault, Power play, Taming the flames, A small problem, The sacred helm, the 15min threnal one all fall into this category. You finish the quest, it took 3, 5 or 10x as long as other quests of the level, and you got similar or less XP. These quests take a while and then you need a microscope to see the reward on your xp bar. While they usually aren't the most challenging content at each level, they are timesinks and should be boosted to make them worth running.

I honestly don't think the devs ever envisioned 3minute shadow crypts, 1-2minute GH quests and 4 minute running with the devils, etc etc...they didn't anticipate how fast this game can play, and so timed quests generally give poor xp rewards in comparision, and not just for zergers or elite players; even in slower groups, these quests are subpar.

Category 2: Obnoxious quest mechanics or high difficulty.
Faithful departed, Threnal, Made to order, The Keepers sanctuary, Valak's Mausoleum, Bastion of power, bookbinders rescue, etc. Quests that either involve protecting NPCs, or need a trapper, or have difficult/tricky quest mechanics need to reward players for running them. When was the last time you saw an at-level lfm for one of these quests? It's very rare, as the rewards are not worth it. Why do the entire threnal chain when a handful of shadowcrypts gets similar XP and can be done in under 1/4 of the time with no headaches?

Category 3: Raids.
Titan, Reavers fate, Abbot, HOX, VOD, MA and LOB have a special reason for why their xp should be doubled- they are raids. Doing a raid at level, particularly on elite, requires incredible coordination, organization, gear, skill, knowledge from everyone involved, as well as good leadership. If you successfully complete any of these raids at level, you deserve massive compensation for your xp bar, because you have done something great.

Currently that is not the case-the average base XP of these 7 raids, on elite, is a pathetic 6.6k. Considering how difficult and time consuming it is to find a group to do an at level raid, the XP involved is usually incredibly underwhelming. You would think a character would learn and adapt and grow more from fighting the most bada$$ of villans the world of ebberon can supply than from the 3minute 11th run of shadow crypt.

This increase should include epic MA and ELOB. EVON5+6 currently gives well over double what ELOB gives, and over 3x what epic MA gives. Considering the obnoxious wilderness and difficulty finding a group compared to EVON, this is puzzling to me, particularly as epic MA and ELOB are at least as time consuming.

While I realize that dev focus is about as far from the 1-19 game as it has ever been, I think that making all content xp-viable is something that is important. This really should have been done a long time ago.

Comments in Red - Overall Great idea

[Chette]

Why improve bad quests when you can just nerf good ones? Duh...

/sarcasm off

I agree with a lot of these comments. We vary on which specific quests need adjustment (some of Threnal is actually quite good) but overall, yes. A huge overhaul of the base quest XP throughout the game is needed, and it's absolutely ridiculous of Turbine to twice nerf challenge xp when these quests have been around, been awful, and been complained about for years, with no response whatsoever.

[Thrudh]

Great post MrMechMan.

I 100% agree with your suggestions and reasoning.

[Thrudh]

We vary on which specific quests need adjustment (some of Threnal is actually quite good) but overall, yes.

Yeah East 2 is already pretty decent.

I'd like to see all the Cannith quests/raids get a boost, and all the Amrath quests/raid.

A huge overhaul of the base quest XP throughout the game is needed

Agreed, and this cannot be hard. It should be a simple change to implement. It would take some time to decide how much to increase each quest, but the actual change has to be very very simple.

Take some time to review the quests and make the change. Or, if you're strapped for time, just trust the OP here... His suggested quest list is a good one.

[dng242]

Why improve bad quests when you can just nerf good ones? Duh...

LMAO. Best post I've read this week.

In general I agree with the OP in that some review is needed. 50% on some maybe on others maybe not.

Library of Threnal needs to be at least more like 500%

[QuantumFX]

Preface: I do agree with the overall concept - Turbine really needs to do an XP balancing pass on their content.

I’d like to see them do a more involved reevaluation though. There are quests that could use some better optionals. (ex. Killing Ramsay Morcourt in Bringing the light should be a +100% optional.) Quests that just need to be evaluated against similar quests (ex. East Thernal 3 vs. The Last Stand) And, quite frankly, all the pay to play content *should* be better XP than the Free to Play stuff of the same level.

As for the specific list: I wouldn’t suggest buffing East Thernal 1 and 2. However, East 3 should be a base 10,000XP as it offers no other multipliers and takes longer than East 2.