The xp of some challenges is still unreasonable.

[Hilltrot]

Wow... Trot, are you nothing but a troll? Seriously? Have you ever played PNP? PBP perhaps? I highly doubt that you have. Otherwise you wouldn't be making brainless comments about how others are allowed to play, because it would ruin your precious perception about the game and what it's supposed to be. I've been a part of TRUE RPG's since I was 8. And it's a time-honored tradition (Dating all the way back to NES and the original Final Fantasy) to grind meaningless quests/monster encounters to get to a level so the rest of the content is easier. Dragon Warrior 1/2/3 had this, too. Swords and Serpents? The list goes on. Get off your high horse and realize that you cannot dictate to others how play style is meant to be done. This game is a group and individual game. If you don't like running a grindy quest, here's a hint: Don't Run It. I know, complicated, neh?

First, you start with name-calling. . .

ROFL

get up. . . . TRUE RPG

ROFL

Try to get up. . .. TRUE RPG

ROFL

Get up . . . Dating back to the NES . . .

ROFL

Ok, get up time to be serious, Dragon Quest TRUE RPG

ROFL

Grinding, time honored in PnP . . .

. . . . .

. . . . .

Sorry about the wait. I past out from laughing.

Grinding is a tradition in MMORPGs, and really, Really, REALLY bad CRPG's. (Sorry, if I shattered your belief that Dragon Quest was a good game . . .)

Grinding has never been a time honored tradition in PnP. Ever. If you go to Gen Con, believe me, you don't sign up to play the same adventure 20 times for 80 hours straight.

Grinding does occur in a lot of MMOs, but that is either because the game is based on really bad Japanese CRPG's like Everquest was; the MMO just sucks; or that people are playing the game a lot more than people normally ever played PnP.

Now, I never mentioned ftdOmen's original post, my original reply was about Carkolda's. But I'm sure that Turbine will eventually even out the XP for the new 21-25 adventures and challenges. Just hope that you don't have to wait as long as a Deepwood Sniper. (4 years now?)

But back to Carkolda. I still believe Turbine had good reason to nerf the XP. The argument could be made that the nerf was too much. Usually buffing other parts of the game instead of nerfing one aspect, is more diplomatic. However, Turbine chose this method likely because they didn't want to increase the leveling speed.

Before 2-point conversions, NFL teams would always kick the ball on conversion. (I guess some teams might have had an injured kicker and would run it.) Every conversion a kick. Unless it was an important one, it really was boring and wasn't even worth watching. I think the networks started to use them as commercial breaks. So, the NFL adopted 2-point conversions. It really makes the conversion far more interesting to watch.

Now did the NFL demand that every team run the ball and play a certain way as you claim that I am doing? No. They simply changed the rewards. That is what Turbine has done and I am supporting.

Turbine isn't preventing you from doing anything. You can play challenges all day, every day, if you like to. ftdOmen can play challenges all he wants to as well. Despite the words you two have put in my mouth, I haven't once said that people shouldn't be able to play challenges as many times as they want. Go. Play them a million more times for all I care.

[Carkolda]

Ok, get up time to be serious, Dragon Quest TRUE RPG

Proof, ladies and gentlemen, that trot doesn't read my post and is only trying to stir up a fight.

Dragon Warrior 1/2/3 had this

Grinding, time honored in PnP . . .

Again, proof you don't read my post.

And it's a time-honored tradition (Dating all the way back to NES and the original Final Fantasy) to grind meaningless quests/monster encounters to get to a level so the rest of the content is easier

And that makes this comment:

Grinding has never been a time honored tradition in PnP. Ever. If you go to Gen Con, believe me, you don't sign up to play the same adventure 20 times for 80 hours straight.

without value. I have never, or will I ever, suggest that PNP should have a grinding aspect to it. My reference above (which you clearly didn't read) indicated that electronic games have a grinding aspect to them. And if you are comparing DDO to an actual true TT group of PNP, you are sadly mistaken.

rest of your post

Your NFL reference was an interesting illustration of my argument, because what they did was increase the reward for doing something harder, not penalize something for doing it easier. They didn't turn the kick conversion into a 1/2-point value. They made the harder one 2 points. Thanks for proving my point. Any more evidence you would like to provide that supports my position?

@ Vormaerin: 1k xp per minute is a far cry from zerging. I accomplish 1k per minute in many quests, and a zerger am I not. How much of a zerger can a cleric/monk be, when I'm only dishing out maybe 30-40 points of damage a swing? So no, I don't agree with you that 1k/minute is zerging, especially when you can run quests like impossible demands and net yourself 12-14k inside of 5-10 minutes. 1k/minute is a pretty reasonable standard I should be shooting for when I TR'd for the first time.

[Hilltrot]

Proof, ladies and gentlemen, that trot doesn't read my post and is only trying to stir up a fight.

Proof?

You wrote a full wall of text doing nothing but insulting me. Calling me a troll, brainless, and inexperienced and all sorts of other things. You purposely shorten my name for no other purpose than to show your contempt for me.

I laughed at your wall of text which did nothing but call me names . . . I didn't respond in kind.

But you say that I'm trying to pick a fight.

I'm sorry I didn't pay closer attention to your paragraph, but when people start calling me names, it's very hard For me to take them seriously.

[Carkolda]

Proof?

You wrote a full wall of text doing nothing but insulting me. Calling me a troll, brainless, and inexperienced and all sorts of other things. You purposely shorten my name for no other purpose than to show your contempt for me.

I laughed at your wall of text which did nothing but call me names . . . I didn't respond in kind.

But you say that I'm trying to pick a fight.

I'm sorry I didn't pay closer attention to your paragraph, but when people start calling me names, it's very hard For me to take them seriously.

First, I only call it as I see it. Did Laura get such a comment? No. Because the tone of her message was one of discussion, not disparagement. So far, out of you, I have only received the latter. After all, your post above indicates that your only intent is to pick a fight, further reinforcing my comments. Try responding with something substantive instead of petty bickering and you might get an even-handed response.

Secondly... shortening name. I highly doubt Laura is getting offended because I'm responding to her as Laura instead of Laurawilder. Get off your sensitivity train and realize I shortened your name only because I didn't feel like typing the whole name. You knew to whom I was speaking, didn't you? People shorten my name all the time, but doesn't mean I get insulted because they shortened it.

Third, and last time before I completely ignore you, that "wall of text" had you bothered to read, was mostly a discussion post to Laura. I devoted maybe 5 lines of text to you. If you bothered to read the entire post, like I do yours, you would have recognized that.

So, thank you for your input. Do you have anything constructive to contribute to the discussion at hand, or do you want to just stop posting so the rest of us can get on with the discussion?

Who is "they"? Just some forum posters as far as I am aware.

Not sure. It's probably the urban statistic. But, when one of the devs made the comment about 15 minutes of xp in 5 minutes of play... if we reverse engineer the level 21 epic TIM which is 5 minutes and gives out around 15k... *shrug* Not sure. Of course, a level 20 TIM is 5 minutes and gives out 5k. If they are suggesting that 5k is the target of the "15 minutes xp vs. 5 minutes play" part, then the xp output would be what it is now: about 1600 xp. I am disinclined to believe it's the latter, and more to the prior.