Epic Destiny and XP earning.

[Missing_Minds]

First, I don't have any issues with the amount of XP earned, more with how it is earned.

My premise here is about having fun in game.


I think it would be safe to say, most players will find their epic destiny that they love to have for their character and not want to leave it. These additional abilities gained is fun for them.

What is not fun is having to leave that ED to go into another one to gain something else. It is one thing if it is the next ED over, but many times it is not. This means the player isn't having fun because they knew what they could do but currently can not. Power gamers will just deal, but average players this is a strong nitpick that will aid them in the desire to stop playing.

Players also like growth, and more than likely want those twists, but I bet a bit under than half just aren't going to bother. This means they will cap their ED. No biggy, BUT then they will always see that XP going to waste. Unlike previous caps, there is a very obvious area for that XP to go. This waste will irritate people and by association, add to the straw going on the camels back.

What I would suggest is that once your ED is capped, if you want to start to earn more ED AP, you be allowed to "Make Secondary".
A Secondary will only earn AP, but no spending it. You would have to make it primary to spend and set it up if you want to twist in fate, but this way you could move around. I also say "no spending" that way the coding doesn't get super tricky.
Also, I would say any "Secondary" only gets half XP, not the standard full amount you would normally get.

This way the loss of XP won't be felt nearly as bad when just having fun, and players may have their continued fun in the ED that gives them the most enjoyment.

Now.. catches that I'd be willing to deal with. I'm just suggestion them in case the thought is too powerful and the only way it could be added is to have restrictions.

A1) It is a ViP perk. (maybe even allow ViP to earn full XP on the secondary?)
A2) If you are not a ViP, you can buy an item out of the store to "mark secondary".

B) You must be a level 25 character to allow "Secondary".

[valarx]

I agree that something needs to be done in this area. It does detract from the effectiveness of the character to have to switch to ineffective destinies to continue to develop twists.

Your suggestions seem reasonable. I believe I've heard of making a secondary/passive destiny elsewhere in threads as well.

A1 and A2 sound reasonable to me.
B doesn't seem to be necessary in my opinion.

[TPICKRELL]

I slight variation, maybe if your Active Destiny is capped, 1/2 XP flows to the destiny of your first twist (if its capped then the second twist...).

You would have to do a little in a new destiny to bootstrap it (earn at least 1 bubble), and you are dedicating some resoources to it (the twist slot) and using some features of the class via the twist, so there is some minimal justification for why you are advancing that destiny.

[Erek_Stormraven]

I like this thought, a lot.

Additionally, how about alternate paths between the destinies? Making a barbarian travel through Shiradi, then Dreadnought, and then Grandmaster of Flowers - just to get to Unyielding Sentinel, seems a bit steep.

[dragonofsteel2]

Really you mean keeping your ablities while earning new ones seems more appealing. Yup Trubine would never think of that TR go backwards to get more power, Destine twist more of going backwards to get more power. I thought the point getting more power was to use these abilities, not forever grind to get little bit more. By the time you reach the goal you I found myself not even caring anymore.

Sarcasim off, yes being little extreme above, but the one things drives me crazy and cause lot friends to quit this game. Is Trubine drive to seperate people with Tr'ing for one, instead making ablities to grind end game to collect more abitlies they create TR's. Which cause lot more casual friends I had to quit are play very little. Why? it's simple they did not have to time to keep up with me or others so when the log in they had nothing to do are pug. People play MMO for the friendship they aquire through time.

Noval idea would been create a grind for the end game players, Like the destine twist. Though letting more casual players attain them at slower rate. Though Trubine in there great wisdom thought it was only good idea to make for TR's in mind only. Look if Tr this class you can build these destines. With no real thought about people might just want to grind the destinies out at casual level while enjoying the new find power they have. That would been to much, way to over power to actual get xp while playing the funiest build you can have. We would rather you grind out less fun build or deal with less power over all forever or TR.

[CaptainSpacePony]

I think the issue raised is a good one, but I don't know if the recommended solution is a good one. On the other hand, I don't have a better one to offer at this time. (bedtime and all)

[Fomori]

While I agree that having and using the ED abilities is cool, I think the system is fine as it is.

Remember you dont HAVE to switch destinies, you can cap the one you like and then stay on it forever. However if you feel the need to power game your character by having the other destinies open as well, along with the twist of fates, then there should be a penalty for doing so.

If Turbine made it so you could keep the best destiny for your class while still leveling up the others, why just not let you level them all up at the same time then. You sound like you should be entitled to have all of the destinies capped and I dont think that is true.

I think that if an 'average player' is going to quit over the current system then I would argue that person does not qualify as 'average'. The mentality to HAVE every single power ability available is NOT average.

/not signed

[McFunzel]

its fine the way it is. i like the idea that not everyone and his grandma can automatically achieve the top notch things in DDO after the game has been made overall ridiculously easy with the last udpdates

[djl]

/signed

For the people saying it's fine, making these changes would not make things easier or harder. It would simply eliminate a large amount of the tedium involved with leveling ED's. For every class there are one or two superior Destines, one or two that are merely okay and then the rest of them offer jack **** in the way of benefits. And once you get into the Epic-level content, and especially stuff they add in the future, the difficulty curve is designed with Destinies in mind. So if you want to continue training, you are going to be putting yourself at a significant disadvantage against difficult content.

Furthermore, to earn a worthwhile amount of Fate Points, you are going to have to level the worthless EDs and doing so is simply NOT FUN. It's not fun at all for a Barbarian to go from using Fury or Dreadnought to something like Magister, which offers nothing in the way of benefits for a melee-focused class like a Barbarian. It also sucks that to get your Epic Moment, you have to nearly max that Destiny so you don't get much time to enjoy that before you cap and then feel like every quest you do with that Destiny is a waste because the exp is going into a void.

I would *gladly* accept reduced exp in whatever I was training if it meant I didn't have to gimp my abilities by switching out of a destiny that is beneficial and fun to use for the class I'm playing. I think that's a fair tradeoff.

[Missing_Minds]

I think that if an 'average player' is going to quit over the current system then I would argue that person does not qualify as 'average'. The mentality to HAVE every single power ability available is NOT average.

The point is that the "average" player does not like loss when playing for fun, and such can be a point for leaving. As stated, "the straw that broke the camel's back" as it were.

Also, if Turbine had no desire to keep "average" people in power, Epics would not be scaled as they are. Keeping the "average" players around means more chances for store profit than would be had otherwise.