Solo melee build

[Fecerak]

I am trying to find a build that fits me very well. I currently have a WF dark monk 20 that I kind of like, but I dislike how much he relies on SF pots to get much done. I also kind of I also have a Rogue 20, which is awesome whenever stuff gets blinded by my epic elemental rapier, but whenever I am fighting bosses/things immune to SA it gets fairly annoying since I can't really sneak attack a lot. So I wondered if some of you had any suggestions towards a good build that fits to my playstyle. +2 Tomes are fine, and I have every race and class unlocked. I want it to be a melee build more or less, preferably not just a FvS that also can swing a sword or the like.

Things I want:
- Decent damage (doesn't need to be insanely high, i'm fine with sacrificing dps, but the damage should at least be decent)
- Survivability (Dodge, PRR, AC, incorporeality, healing amp, etc.)
- Reliable self-healing that isn't SF pots (since those are really annoying to use, because of 10 stacks, favor requirements, stat drops, etc.) Heal scrolls are ok, but having something in addition wouldn't hurt (but not necessarily required)
- Decent utility (stuns/trips/charms/etc.)

Things that I would prefer to have:
- Decent mobility (definately not below base) either through things like sprint boost/wings or just through having bonuses from class levels or the like.
- Unarmed is my favourite combat style so getting that wouldn't be bad.

When looking through my list of things I want my toon to have a monk seems to fit fairly well into all that. But still I don't find that I enjoy my monk as much as it would seem I should be. I think it also might have something to do with that other than using SF and ToD I don't really do much in combat that I feel like make a difference other than autoattacking and refreshing my Shadow fade every minute, as well as the fact that I don't really have any burst dps other than ToD every 15 seconds which I almost don't consider burst dps since it just feels like part of a rotation, instead of being something I use when there is something I really need to kill quickly.

I think it prolly will be a build that has some monk levels, but not sure exactly how I want it to be.

[goodspeed]

basically you already have the class, your just the wrong race. Helf dark monk. Or light, but I prefer the stacked forms of displacement.

What the helf gives you is the cleric dili which is accessible with a base of 13 wis. Which allows you to use all wands and scrolls up to lv 11 cleric I think. Which means you use cure light to cure critical wands, a slew of divine spells including of course divine power, and the real mean and potatoes. The heal scroll.

You can umd heal scrolls on the rogue easy enough but like you said the SA problem. I'm currently just setting up and leveling a rogue build that compensates for that in the form of handwraps mixed with improved sunder and all that to drop the 100% fort bosses and the like. Plus stunning first. You got the power to make the monster take those attacks. Another option.

You could also go helf and a fighter but with that or really any melee I'd strongly urge to take and make GS clickies with the displacement spell on them. Even more so now that even if mages were feeling generous they can't cast it on others anymore. Gives you an automatic 50% chance of not being hit. And it makes a whole world of difference leveling.

[voodoogroves]

I have two WF monk splashes currently.

One is somewhat parked, working on EDs and is Fighter 12 / Monk 7 / Wizard 1. Full tactics, DCs in the 50s. Pots when I need it, wands and stuff when I need it. Future lives may go Artificer instead of Wizard. Right now he's Ninja 1 / Stalwart 2 with pretty decent heal amp, even with the craptactastic amp issues in the current build. He does solid DPS, but really the tactics and hate are the real strong point right now. He can swap to Kensai if needed, but I'd soured on the Psionic bit from Kensai boost.

The second is my paladin life on my (obstensibly) main. Build will be Monk 2 / Artificer 9 / Paladin 9 or there-abouts. Traps, early Flame Turrent for Shadow Crypt / Menechtarum use, etc. I went with staves and cleave for the fun of it. Evasion with pretty hot saves. In the future, he may very well end up as a monk/arti hybrid possibly with Fighter in a future life. Still, on this life he's got great access to blue bar healing (and, you know, a Torc).

[hit_fido]

I want it to be a melee build more or less, preferably not just a FvS that also can swing a sword or the like.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when requests for self-sufficient/solo melee builds are so often seriously answered with just play some favored soul 20 or 18/2 variant that it needs to be explicitly declined, but oh well, that is the current state of the game.

I think it prolly will be a build that has some monk levels, but not sure exactly how I want it to be.

I'm suggesting you build around a base of monk-09 (wisdom based dark monk) and ranger-06 (tempest), with toughness, past life: monk, stunning fist, dodge, mobility, spring attack, ic: bludgeoning and gtwf. That still leaves two other feats; you're getting twf, itwf, precise shot, many shot and bow strength for "free".

Defensively, you have a base 13% dodge, with itemization (4/3/2/1) you could push that as high as 23%, nearly capped. Shadow fade for 25% incorporeality. You should still be able to keep AC up in the 50-60% at level defense range without too much trouble. You wont get much PRR though. Improved evasion! You'll have very good base saves - 11/11/8 plus whatever you get from the other five levels and ability modifiers (note that 15 levels of pure monk is just 9/9/9).

Offensively, you get 2.5[1d6] fists factoring in past life: monk; tod; but also many shot for another burst dps option you say you're looking for. A couple favored enemies as well.

Utility, you get stunning fist. Monk and ranger are both on the high end as far as skill points as well... sprint boost and monk run speed...

Self sufficiency, you get no fail csw wands and other ranger-spell wands. 20% heal amp. With those skill points you can still easily get your base umd to 11 ranks so with good gear heal scrolls are still on the table.

You're left with 5 levels and the two feats (three if human) you can fill in depending on your interests:

-) 3 more monk levels for next tier of stances, another damage step, abundant step... then pick a two-splash, maybe 2 rogue or 2 fighter...

-) 5 more ranger levels frees up another feat in place of gtwf, gives you improved precise shot, and self cast cmw.

-) If you'd prefer more utility and some offense/defense, 5 levels of rogue gets you uncanny dodge (that should also give you 1% more dodge), trap skills, full ranks in umd for heal (and other) scrolls, and sneak attack damage. Also 2nd tier of wand/scroll mastery. Haste boost...

-) If you'd prefer more defense and some utility, 5 levels of wizard (with extend and probably mental toughness for bonus feats) would give you self cast 10 minutes shield, +20 jump, 10 minute blur, invisibility (btw, that will probably be the next spell they make self cast only), and 1 minute displacements (I know you could make clickies, sure...); also 2nd tier of wand/scroll mastery. 5 Wizard also props up the will saves that are lacking in the 6 ranger levels.

-) if you'd prefer some sp-based self healing but reject going ranger-11, consider 5 levels of favored soul or 5 levels of druid to get self cast cmw and maybe some other frills from those two splashes. Druid and fvs both offer a couple tiers of hit point enhancements too, for +20 hp, as well as adding even more saves (4/4/4 for fvs-05 or 4/1/4 for druid-05).

-) for the two feats, zen archery and ic: ranged to boost your manyshot dps and add in ten thousand stars as well; or maybe combat expertise and improved trip for another tactical option and another stance based defensive boost...

Etc etc. The point is the monk-09/ranger-06 base gets you a lot of what you say you want, the 5 other levels provide a lot of flexibility to boost some aspects you want to improve from the base. Pick whatever race further tweaks it in the direction you like.

[t0r012]

Human healing amp light path monk.
Fits you bill to a "T"

FoL and healing ki with tons of amp (much easier to gear now) covers the healing
Unarmed so you get your wish
Utility with stuns , trips and specials. Plus the kukan do and jade tombs.
DR breaking
Fast movement speed plus abundant step for kicks

[Fecerak]

Yeah, might be that I just have to make a fleshy to get what I want. I'm currently working on leveling up a 15 ranger/4 monk/1 rogue but while it would solve the issues of self-healing I would still be stuck without much to do in combat other than hitting stuns every few seconds.

Just being human with amp though isn't enough healing to sustain in higher level quests I think if I don't have any other forms of healing other than FoL.

I might just end up going 20 helf monk or the like with cleric dillettante. However I'm not sure if my damage will be all that great if I do that. Maybe I just should go strength based.

[zafahor]

why not try a monk/pally 2/18 race doesent really matter preferably human! take the monk levels for evasion and extra feat, then the pally levels for the survivability and tankyness! or you could take that cool build that is popular on youtube that is pally monk ranger?
good luck finding a build!
zaf

[Fecerak]

Another thing I feel about pure classed monks is that they don't really have any boosts to damage. The only damage boosting things they get are the ki strikes which are nice, but not incredibly good, the 1.75 damage every 4 levels from higher unarmed base damage, and the doublestrike from wind stance/crit multiplier from earth stance.

If I compare the damage of the 15/4/1 ranger/monk/rogue and a 20 monk the 20 monk will have 2d6 more from base damage, while the 15/4/1 has 3 from ram's might, 12 favored enemy damage, some sneak attack, in addition to 12.5% more doublestrike if both are in wind-stance (considering monks get full str damage on offhand more offhand procs function mostly the same as more doublestrike, or at least I can't find anything that is different between the two). He also has haste boost, etc.

While damage isn't the most important thing, it still is nice to be able to kill stuff decently quickly, especially red-nameds that can't be stunned.

[goodspeed]

Well can't do really to much about red names. That's mostly where any form of healing, and displacements come in. With the new ac system basically anything can hit you with the right roll. And that sets up the dark monk just fine with shadow fade (they gotta roll to beat your incorp as well as another roll to beat either blur or displacement or some fog cast about you.)

Which is why I suggest the helf. With the helf (humans) stacked heal amp with the monks and any armor you can get your amp to amazing heights without suffering from the WF amp downfall. So you go in there wailing on red man, hitting the human versatility IV for a jack up in dmg for 20 seconds, then as your running low you hop off hit the hot barred heal scroll stack and get about 400 hp or so back and then your right back on em.

And yes, go str based. Jack str through the roof. It might of been changed but it never hurts to have more and more dmg. And with +3 tomes falling everywhere it's a lil easier with stats now even as a 32 pointer. You can start dex at 15, 15 into str, 16 in con, 14 in wis. (Ive found even with 14 wis you can jack up stunning fist to great numbers for epics.) And I love stunning fist. It is the I hit you but your not hitting back button.

Now dark or light? With the flowers epic thing, it does give more dmg to either which makes light seem better with the buffs and now extra dmg. But I'm not convinced. With that new ac system I say survivability is gonna be the main thing and with that thought you can't go wrong with shadow fade. Plus it opens up other options as well epic wise.

Of all my alts (well besides my mages with the high cc numbers) I find my monk the most survivable to play. And he's not even helf yet. He's a horc (Was made back before helf human versatility got jacked up)

Of course that's just melee. If you wanted to made really survivable, some ranger builds will have you going all day long. Course they're mostly ranged with some hand to hand combat. Gonna be tring an alt into one of those soon as well.

[Fecerak]

I might also just TR my current monk which would get me 34 points to work with, but I'm not entirely sure I want to do that considering the extra grind I have to go through for all the extra xp to TR. I personally prefer staying in wind stance due to the increased attack speed and doublestrike, as well as not taking a hit to movement speed like I would in earth stance. Not getting more threat than I need to is also useful.

How much plat does +3 tomes cost atm? Since unless they are really cheap I think I'd start with 16 dex to qualify for wind IV.

[voodoogroves]

I might also just TR my current monk which would get me 34 points to work with, but I'm not entirely sure I want to do that considering the extra grind I have to go through for all the extra xp to TR. I personally prefer staying in wind stance due to the increased attack speed and doublestrike, as well as not taking a hit to movement speed like I would in earth stance. Not getting more threat than I need to is also useful.

How much plat does +3 tomes cost atm? Since unless they are really cheap I think I'd start with 16 dex to qualify for wind IV.

If you have the time, you really might want to consider a monk/fighter split. Hella fun.

[Fecerak]

If you have the time, you really might want to consider a monk/fighter split. Hella fun.

If I have the time to consider or the time to play? Being that I spend more time considering builds than actually playing I think I'm more likely to consider a build than playing it. I have thought about going fighter+monk, 12 Fighter/8 monk was something I really considered, but when I compare it to a pure class build it just feels like I get 4-5 damage per hit or the like plus haste boost and slightly higher stun dc's but I lose a lot of things, including abundant step, movement speed, better stances, ToD if dark, SA if dark, a lot of utility if light, etc. which i'm not sure is worth it.

Though haste boost would quite possibly be really nice to have.

[Theolin]

Things to ponder

Evasion - 2 monk, 2 rogue, or 9 ranger
Feats - 2 monk, 2 fighter, + 1 every 2 fighter
HPs - fighter, barb, pali + con (and to a lesser extent the d8 Classes)
Fast movement - 1 barb, every 3 monk
Healing - UMD(rogue/arti), 1/2Elf Dilly

Next ponder points

Available gear
Available classes and races
Playstyle
The 2,6,12,18 power points of each class and how they mesh

Additional things

Who you play with
Do you group or solo

With all of this info let meander around in ones head for awhile and see what gels

For me, on my first truly melee life ever of many characters and many lives
I chose one of my TR projects with lots of money & gear
And finally decided on 8 barb, 8 fighter, 3 rogue / level 20 doesn't matter as I will TR again (wanted the Barb past life)
Did 2WF because of the weapons I had, although I do switch at times to 2HF (again due to gear I have)
Started with FvS dilly & switched to Arti at high level when my UMD was high enough
Its been a fun life
I have to choose between evasionness & tankieness which I set up by just switching amour
I can easily get 65ish ac, & with a shield to 80ish
For evasion I can get to low 30's which is enough for spells and some traps
Search, DD, UMD full ranks
I don't use rage but that is just me, I just don't like its penalty(no clickies....)
I went Stalwart for the extra HPs

[unbongwah]

My suggestion: HE ftr 12 (Kensai II) / monk 7 (Ninja I) / arty or rogue 1 (UMD) w/cleric dilly. Ftr brings the feats & DPS boosts; monk adds more feats, +10% atk speed w/handwraps, Stunning Fist, Shadow Fade (25% incorp), +20% heal amp on top of HE 20% heal amp; cleric dilly brings the self-healing / sufficiency until UMD is high enough (can be swapped once UMD is high enough for, e.g., rogue dilly for 3D6 SA).

Feats (7 base + 3 monk + 7 ftr + 2 epic): Toughness, TWF x3, Stunning Fist, Stunning Blow, WF/WS/GWS Blunt (Kensai pre-reqs), Dodge (Ninja pre-req), IC:Blunt, Power Atk, Cleave/GC (Overwhelming Crit pre-reqs), OC:Blunt, leaving you four feats to do with what you like (e.g., Mobility & Spring Atk for +5% Dodge, Imp Sunder+Precision for -35% fortification, CE+Imp Trip, etc.).

Alternatively, you could give the Quad H a go; it's more of a flavor build at this point (in particular I'm not sure it's epic-viable), but it's got a lot of self-sufficiency too.

[Fecerak]

After comparing the numbers, just going for a Kensai 2 monk seems fairly tempting. I do lose quite a bit of mobility by not going pure, but having a lot of extra feats is never a bad thing. A pure monk will have about the same damage per hit considering that he can take improved martial arts twice for another 2(W), but having really good dc's on stuns, trips, etc. seems like something that will be fun to play. And with power surge increasing ki gain that much I will probably never be low on ki even if I spam abilities all day. Sad to not be able to abuse abundant step on a build with power surge but oh wells. It will also give me more options in terms of destinies since things like legendary dreadnought is suddenly a lot better with all the tactics I suddenly will be able to use.

The only thing that isn't so great about it is the slightly lower survivability, considering it lacks the DR 10/epic, monk movement speed, less heal amp, 10 AC I think (with the new monk changes), and abundant step, but with the added CC it should hopefully still be survivable enough. I also really wish it would be possible to go something like 12 fighter/6 monk/1 rogue/1 ranger just to get sprint boost, but sadly there is the 3 class cap.

[voodoogroves]

After comparing the numbers, just going for a Kensai 2 monk seems fairly tempting. I do lose quite a bit of mobility by not going pure, but having a lot of extra feats is never a bad thing. A pure monk will have about the same damage per hit considering that he can take improved martial arts twice for another 2(W), but having really good dc's on stuns, trips, etc. seems like something that will be fun to play. And with power surge increasing ki gain that much I will probably never be low on ki even if I spam abilities all day. Sad to not be able to abuse abundant step on a build with power surge but oh wells. It will also give me more options in terms of destinies since things like legendary dreadnought is suddenly a lot better with all the tactics I suddenly will be able to use.

The only thing that isn't so great about it is the slightly lower survivability, considering it lacks the DR 10/epic, monk movement speed, less heal amp, 10 AC I think (with the new monk changes), and abundant step, but with the added CC it should hopefully still be survivable enough. I also really wish it would be possible to go something like 12 fighter/6 monk/1 rogue/1 ranger just to get sprint boost, but sadly there is the 3 class cap.

I'm using the Blademark's docent mostly for the Vertigo 15 (and SFL ... and life shield ... and DR 5/epic ... and a blue slot ... and a colorless slot).

I went 12 fighter / 7 monk / 1 wizard (as I said above) because mine is on a first life without tons of good UMD gear, plus extended Shield, Jump, Pro Evil are pretty handy as well. I can swap between SD and Kensai easily (have the feats for Kensai, use Combat Expertise to qualify for SD). Even as an SD the tactics and ki generation are pretty solid. Shadow Fade + 35-ish PRR + decent XP + tactics = pretty survivable. I also put some decent amp gear on him too, so he's not even too hard to heal.

[Fecerak]

You are running in earth stance? Having both earth stance and stalwart stance at the same time would probably make me just not enjoy playing the character as it would move fairly slowly due to having 2 movement speed decreasing stances at the same time.

[voodoogroves]

No, usually Sun (Jidz). I only go Earth and turn on WF hate if I want to ensure I gank boss aggro and keep it. I too can't stand moving too slowly. Thankfully, Monk 7 is still pretty springy w/ 30% striders even with SD2.

I didn't build him as a tank, but he can tank light weight stuff when he's in SD mode. When he's in Kensai mode, it's never Earth and the only PRR is when I fire up CE (from the ED bit). I'm actually going to TR him a few times for fighter PLs too, 'cause more tactics DCs are good. Most of my DCs sit somewhere in the mid 50s (fist/blow/trip/sunder) in SD mode.

EDIT: I'm not doing a good job conveying it, but the sheer flexibility of this kind of structure makes for a character you can re-tool without lesser hearts to be more or less survivable in differing situations as you need, while still remaining solid at the core.