Serious problem with epic destinies

[danotmano1998]

you are all missing the point.

VIP can change what active destiny they use in quest. so all they need to do is while "voice's on" time to also activate the destiny they want to upgrade. that way they can use the ED they like 99.99% of the time.(REAL easy on challenges. you have a timer so you know when to change ED before the quest end and the xp grant )

AND the reason only VIP can do this is so others would turn VIP to get to grind their ED without gimping themselves.

I thought that you could only switch in towns!!!

EDIT: Yes, I thought so. Hadn't tried it myself.
Doesn't work.

[Credinus]

you are all missing the point.

VIP can change what active destiny they use in quest. so all they need to do is while "voice's on" time to also activate the destiny they want to upgrade. that way they can use the ED they like 99.99% of the time.(REAL easy on challenges. you have a timer so you know when to change ED before the quest end and the xp grant )

AND the reason only VIP can do this is so others would turn VIP to get to grind their ED without gimping themselves.

This is 100% incorrect, you misunderstood the VIP benefit. VIP's can change ED's at any time in any -public- area, not quests/adventure areas. Non-VIPs must visit the Fateweaver NPC's to do this; in no way can VIP's change ED's mid-quest, and the only thing remotely close to this is the Fatesinger Tier 5 ability to swap out your Twists of Fates at rest shrines.


On the main topic, I entirely agree. Not being able to cap every ED in a reasonable amount of time on one life isn't so much the issue, it's having to be gimped while doing any ED progression outside your main that sucks. My personal example: My wizard is an enchanter archmage, obviously with the Magister destiny as his primary. Having scoured through the various EDs, I determined that the the one twist of fate I'd REALLY like to have is the Exalted Angel tier 1 ability Endless Fate (since extra SP and a better Echoes of Power would be beneficial to an archmage like me). The problem? I have to earn somewhere around a million XP in destinies that DON'T HELP ME AT ALL to get there, all whilst not even receiving more than a tier 1 or tier 2 ability twisted in from my primary. As another stated, this is like being level 20 but having to play as though you were level 15 for a while, and this is not a good design.

Otherwise, I really enjoy the epic destiny system. But there definitely needs to be some way to alleviate the "gotta be gimped" aspect of earning your twists of fate. My suggestion: remove the map system and just let us pick whichever fate we want to work on rather than having to spend practically a whole 'nother life's worth of XP to get there.


Of course, some would argue that the system is designed to encourage TRing, but I'm not down with that as a casual player who took nearly half a year to finally get a single character to level 20 on a first life. I would really rather not have to TR to another class to get to an ED, then TR AGAIN so that I can play the class I originally wanted to play just to enjoy the benefits of a lowly TIER ONE twist of fate.

[dragonofsteel2]

Really in fantasy game were throw fireballs and die and come back to life people fighting over what is realistic. None of this realistic, it just not fun to gain ablity and lose them to gain new ablities. I want to have fun using my new ablity not get in these forever grind were have play the weaker verison for somebody that feels it's not realistic. No **** none of this game is realistic, I pretty sure I never seen a dragon or toss fireballs out my butt. For the person that mis informed you can not change destine in quest. The only abitly to do this is in the bard destine and teir five and only at a shrine, so if can shrine right before get your xp you can do this. That only after you grind out ton fate points or just happen to like playing the bard destine all the time.

"I don't agree, Elminster is still a powerful caster but if he is in the legendary dreadnaught destiny he should be "weaker" as he is learning a new "trade" so to speak. He is putting aside certain "ways" of doing things to in order to learn something else."

Two points about this, what does matter what reality is in a fantasy game. It fantasy pretty sure people don't gain xp points for killing a mob to gain levels. This was created for making a grind in the game. Reality some peeps learn faster then other and need less experience in life to learn new skills.

Second, when you learn how to do basic ski do you forget all you learn to learn about fishing? To me use the skills learn through life to help me with new skills in life. I don't just forget everything I done because my focus changed.

Last point is this game is about having fun not worry about if fits into someone vision of reality. If started breaking all the things make no sense compare to the real world in this game I drive my self nuts. So sit back and have fun playing and take reality out of game you can kill dragons for fun.

[masterzzan]

i am sorry. it seems you can't change ED in quests. i never done so while questing having trouble getting enough xp for my own main ED.

will fix post.

[Thrudh]

Coming from the guy who was fine with axing challenge XP by half, and recently started a thread along the lines of "you don't have to cap every destiny".

Do you realize your hypocrisy or do you just spin the troll wheel and start typing?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

(1) I was not for a nerfing of the challenge XP across the board, just the Defenseless one. I never called for the nerf; I just said I welcomed it after the fact because 500k exp an hour piking is ridiculous... That's twice as fast as the very best powergamer ever achieved TRing... Twice as fast as the most skilled, most efficient powergamer ever... while piking.

(2) My point stands that you don't have to cap every destiny, just like you don't have to TR a dozen times. There's point of diminishing returns... For TRs, 2-4 TRs (for most builds) is a sweet spot beyond which you get very little. I believe there is also a point of diminishing returns in Epic Destinies twists. People were always talking about balancing xp gain around 15 million exp, but that's like balancing TRs around completionist. Not everyone is going to get completionist and not everyone is going to get ALL epic destinies maxed out.

(3) My suggestion in THIS thread is to actually SLOW DOWN the speed of which we level in epic destinies, completely consistent with my earlier positions... I'd rather go slower, and get to enjoy my main destiny while just playing the game than go faster and be bored out of my mind grinding the best xp/min quests just to get through it.

The best part... my suggestion does NOT stop YOU from grinding out the best xp/min quests... I would just like another option. One that doesn't require repeating the same quest 400 times.

I'd like to actually play the game with my chosen destiny... NOT grind out House of the Rusted Blades 500 times at 30k every 2 minutes. (which is even WORSE than Defenseless and even MORE boring and broken)

[Sylvenon]

Potential solution for those in a group focused on ED's that grind quests together...run high xp quests with your preferred ED active, and have a blast using your preferred enhancements, and then collectively take the re entry hit to xp, and switch out ED's before completion.

Sure, it ads to the quest completion time, and yes you get less xp, but if playing the ED you love the most is worth it to you, then this is a solution.

Just a thought.

[SilkofDrasnia]

So you are saying players should sacrifice play quality in order to more realistically simulate what is going on? Seems to me that would just cause some players to simply ignore the whole system as play quality is what they log in for. So a choice between playing the destiny you want while gaining 25 or 50% xp toward another or playing that other and getting full xp would seem to be a step towards making the system appeal to a larger portion of the player base.

Not at all, what i'm saying is if the powerful mage wants to learn how to cook a chicken he needs to put down the wands n books and pick up the butcher knife, hell he might be able to fry that chicken with a fireball but then what is he learning. Just seems to me some people want to stay in their "power" mode all the time but bake that cake from some other destiny too.

That's just how i've chosen to look at it, the Op suggestion might be fun but seems a tad easy to me.

[Credinus]

Potential solution for those in a group focused on ED's that grind quests together...run high xp quests with your preferred ED active, and have a blast using your preferred enhancements, and then collectively take the re entry hit to xp, and switch out ED's before completion.

Sure, it ads to the quest completion time, and yes you get less xp, but if playing the ED you love the most is worth it to you, then this is a solution.

Just a thought.

It's not a bad way to go about it in some cases, but here's the two big problems with that approach:
1) A lot of epic quests (including almost all of the new ones) are in adventure areas, and often quite a trek from the entry point. This means you'd have to recall out twice and then run all the way back to the quest entry just to re-enter after changing ED's.
2) Switching ED's is rather buggy, and often requires a relog to fix everything.

[sephiroth1084]

/signed

I'm seriously considering not bothering with anything beyond a single level 1-3 twist on at least a couple of my characters, because the value of the twists is just too small to justify grinding millions of XP in destinies that aren't enjoyable in the least.

Playing a Shadowdancer on my rogue is a lot of fun. Playing a Grandmaster of Flowers isn't, since I can't use any of the abilities. Ditto for Legendary Dreadnought. I'd like twists, sure, but why spend over half the time I play the character doing stuff that isn't enjoyable?

[Gremmlynn]

Not at all, what i'm saying is if the powerful mage wants to learn how to cook a chicken he needs to put down the wands n books and pick up the butcher knife, hell he might be able to fry that chicken with a fireball but then what is he learning. Just seems to me some people want to stay in their "power" mode all the time but bake that cake from some other destiny too.

That's just how i've chosen to look at it, the Op suggestion might be fun but seems a tad easy to me.

To me it looks more like players don't want to, after finally topping out that destiny, put it aside in order to continue advancing their character in the game. Not seeing it again until advancement is complete and, in a lot of cases, the desire to continue playing that character is diminished. Giving an option to either use the current "no pain no gain" system or an alternate "no pain less gain system" would seem to allow everyone to be happy.

[Nick_RC]

I find this request contrary to your typical posting philosophy. Therefore I agree with you.

/signed.

[SilkofDrasnia]

To me it looks more like players don't want to, after finally topping out that destiny, put it aside in order to continue advancing their character in the game. Not seeing it again until advancement is complete and, in a lot of cases, the desire to continue playing that character is diminished. Giving an option to either use the current "no pain no gain" system or an alternate "no pain less gain system" would seem to allow everyone to be happy.

I understand that feeling i've felt it myself but the thing is that it's not that hard to cap out. I've worked my way from unyielding to fury with 2 of destinies maxed out n the others at lvl 3/4.

[Synthetic]

/not signed

This isn't a problem it's a game mechanic. A full epic destiny is several times more powerful then a leveling destiny and even 50% xp would be to much. If you made it difficult like 10% xp maybe, but it seems silly to learn how to do another task while using unrelated abilities.

Also your post is misleading it's seriously not a problem.

[Purgatory]

Quoting justagame from another thread.... He's hit the nail on the head.



Can you let us gain exp in other destinies while remaining in our "main" destiny? How about with a 50% penalty?

I want to enjoy my Unyielding Sentinal tank, but I'm going to spend the vast majority of my epic time with him in other destinies that I don't care that much about.

Not as much as some people... I'm happy with one Tier II ability, and two Tier I abilities, but even that takes 8 fate points, which is 24 levels of EDs, which is 8 of 10 EDs taken to the third level (that's 5.76 million, slightly more than a single TR). Others are going to go for the full 15 million needed to get 16 fate points.

By the time I'm "done", I'm going to start working on my alts, and doing the same thing... rarely actually playing my characters with the destinies that I want for them.

I want my barbarian to enjoy Fury of the Wild while still advancing the character, and my tank to enjoy Unyielding Sentinal, etc. Spending hours and hours playing these characters with worthless epic destinies to build up fate points seems like pretty bad design.

Although I guess it's similar to TRing into classes you don't care about for the past life feats, but I never did that... My barbarian TRed into a fighter and then barbarian, and my wizard remained a wizard 3 times, etc.

Now, I don't HAVE to get twists... But you put them in to make things interesting, and getting a few can spice up a character.

I'd just like to play my character with the destiny that actually matches my playstyle while advancing...

How about a 50% gain to a different destiny (or even 25%) while questing?

I see your point, and I also came to the same conclusion before I even started working on other destinys for fate points.

so my goal was to unlock all the destiny but also leave alot to do after they were leveld up to 5.

I realy wanted to try them all out anyways and see what I wanted to twist in.

So I didnt cap out my main destiny but instead just got it to lvl 5 so there was some meat left when i came back to it

I also havent done any epic elite or go after any new gear i wanted to get.

So ill still have plenty to do when i go back to my main destiny.

Only have 1 more to go before i have them all at lvl 5 and the farm was not so bad
but a bit boreing to say the least when farming 1-2 quests over over again
because they are the only ones that are giving 15k a min.

The chalnges where only giving about 5-6k per min not nearly as good but they atleast gave decent enuf xp to mix it up a bit, but now pfff they worth so little xp they just not worth going to.

I dont get that one bit! why nurf the xp of chalanges that are only giving 5k-6k per min while there are quests that are producing 15k per min..... that are easier...



I know I wont be doing that for my alts that is for sure. As you said it not much fun lvling threw a destiny that doesnt fit your character or play style or benift you in anyways just to get a fate point open path to a destiny your looking to unlock.

I thought it was a bit silly that if i wanted a twist in a ability on one my toons i have to go threw 4 destinys, not for fate points but simply just gettign to that destiny to unlock the ability. then at that point mise well just lvl them all to 5 and unlock all the fate points while ur at it.

[Osharan_Tregarth]

I find this request contrary to your typical posting philosophy. Therefore I agree with you.

/signed.

Very nicely put Nick.

[Postumus]

I'm sorry, but you wanted the Challenge xp nurfed, so don't complain at all about needing 15 mil xp per character to max out destinies.

hee hee no hint of bitterness there...

but I think he still makes a good point independent of his position on the challenges (on which I have no position).

[Quetzacoala]

This isn't a problem it's a game mechanic.

Where does it say that game mechanics cannot be problems?

[SoloPhalanx]

Learning new skills is in addition to, and not a replacement for, the skills already known. It is not realistic that a character forgets all their epic abilities at the highest tier in order to persue abilities at the lowest tier of another tree.

DDO - where reality happens

[Chilldude]

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

First, the context in which he used hypocrisy is absolutely consistent with the definition. That you take opposition to the implication is entirely another story.

Second, no, you don't have to max out every destiny. However, for people like FVS who start all the way over the in the corner, you do have quite a trek getting anywhere useful.

Finally, I agree with the rest of what you said. I wouldn't mind just playing the game in the destiny of my choice knowing that eventually I'll get enough to pick up an interesting twist or two.

[Nibor]

Although I guess it's similar to TRing into classes you don't care about for the past life feats, but I never did that
Now, I don't HAVE to get twists

You've kind of answered your own point there - TRs into classes you don't enjoy for a past life feat, or completionist. Change Epic Destinies into something you don't want, for the fate point. Pretty similar, and big XP grind on both.

You weren't interested in the carrot before, it seems you are now. That doesn't mean they should make a short-cut to it just because you'd like the reward for doing the grind without the grind.
You can get a Tier 1 twist for practically nothing, and two Tier 1 twists for very little investment. Anything above that is going to be some work. Seems fine to me - just find some Tier 1 items you want very close to your tree; even just the stat point if that's all you want.

I do understand the "feel bad" moment of playing outside your chosen destiny - that destiny fits your playstyle and the character is built to enjoy it - but it's there to force you to play with the other destinies, and maybe even find something else you enjoy. Much like playing a TR in another class...maybe you find something about that class you enjoy that you didn't think you would. Or maybe it sucks. But you were forced into trying it if you want the reward.