Serious problem with epic destinies

[Deadlock]

Since you've already made your "once per character" decision of starting destiny -- in this case Draconic -- you no longer have any "freebie" choices.

For the avoidance of confusion, it's not "once per character", it's "once per life" you get to choose a starting destiny in the sphere associated with your dominant class.

[danotmano1998]

Yes, I'm quite sure.


You'll see the Draconic Incarnation destiny from my previous sorc life. Fatesinger and Magister aren't currently available because I didn't wait to get Draconic up to lvl 4 before TRing.

Niice! SO if you TR, then get back to 20, you can choose another destiny? That does directly contradict the accepted concensus.

It would be so great if there were a Dev diary about these, how they work, etc..
Most of it is just stumbling around in the dark and that's increasingly hard due to how many bugs are around on it. It's difficult to tell what's WAI when nobody really seems to know.

[Cyr]

No disagrement with the OP on this one.

Heck, I pointed to this very thing as being undesirable right when we learned about this detail of the system.

Of course making people level up stuff that does not fit their toon, sometimes at all, is going to be less enjoyable for them then actually running with stuff that makes sense for their toon.

Since the point of the game should be to maximize the amount of time people have fun...since happy players will play more and buy more...this is clearly a misguided design that never should have left the concept stage of the development process.

[kingfisher]

Since the point of the game should be to maximize the amount of time people have fun...since happy players will play more and buy more

...

someone should tattoo this on the foreheads of nando and the rest of his cadre of maroons so they can all read it while listening to each others horrible new ideas for ways to make the game less fun.

...

this is clearly a misguided design that never should have left the concept stage of the development process.

if you had a nickle for every time you could say this about the decisions turbine has made and continues to make you could go out and make us a game worth playing again.

[Deadlock]

someone should tattoo this on the foreheads of nando and the rest of his cadre of maroons so they can all read it while listening to each others horrible new ideas for ways to make the game less fun.

Do you mean morons?

[kingfisher]

Do you mean morons?

obviously your not a golfer

[Maatogaeoth]

Yes, I'm quite sure.

Here's what my Destiny Map looks like right now:
{SNIP}

You'll see the Draconic Incarnation destiny from my previous sorc life. Fatesinger and Magister aren't currently available because I didn't wait to get Draconic up to lvl 4 before TRing.

Shiradi Champion was my first choice when getting to 20 as a druid. I got this to level 4. This opened up Legendary Dreadnought and Fury of the Wild.

So I have access to 4 destinies and can decide to put destiny XP into any one of them.

Thank you SO much for this verification on how the system actually works right now.

[slarden]

/signed.

I completely agree with the original poster. I would like to be able to earn twists without losing all the abilities I earned. My sorc hasn't started working on twists simply because I would lose almost everything and I've grown quite fond of those abilities

About the only way I can do that is to focus on wilderness and right before I hit a big milestone switch to the new destiny.

I will likely just live without twists with my sorc.

[Krell]

Quoting justagame from another thread.... He's hit the nail on the head.



Can you let us gain exp in other destinies while remaining in our "main" destiny? How about with a 50% penalty?

I want to enjoy my Unyielding Sentinal tank, but I'm going to spend the vast majority of my epic time with him in other destinies that I don't care that much about.

Not as much as some people... I'm happy with one Tier II ability, and two Tier I abilities, but even that takes 8 fate points, which is 24 levels of EDs, which is 8 of 10 EDs taken to the third level (that's 5.76 million, slightly more than a single TR). Others are going to go for the full 15 million needed to get 16 fate points.

By the time I'm "done", I'm going to start working on my alts, and doing the same thing... rarely actually playing my characters with the destinies that I want for them.

I want my barbarian to enjoy Fury of the Wild while still advancing the character, and my tank to enjoy Unyielding Sentinal, etc. Spending hours and hours playing these characters with worthless epic destinies to build up fate points seems like pretty bad design.

Although I guess it's similar to TRing into classes you don't care about for the past life feats, but I never did that... My barbarian TRed into a fighter and then barbarian, and my wizard remained a wizard 3 times, etc.

Now, I don't HAVE to get twists... But you put them in to make things interesting, and getting a few can spice up a character.

I'd just like to play my character with the destiny that actually matches my playstyle while advancing...

How about a 50% gain to a different destiny (or even 25%) while questing?

Some good points. Maybe a "make feats active" button and a "make XP active" button to choose which destiny you can use and which is gaining XP. It did seem like a let down when I maxed one destiny then lost all the benefits to start another one. It will get worse if I start to get into destinies that have little benefit to my class.

[archora]

/ not signed

Seems a bit like wanting a past life barbarian but being able to be a sorc for leveling purposes.

For a long time now this game has used the system of more power for your character requires more investment in time, I'm fine with that personaly. Dont want to spend the time then find somewhere you are happy to settle.

[Avidus]

/ not signed

Seems a bit like wanting a past life barbarian but being able to be a sorc for leveling purposes.

People already do this. They level as 14 sorc taking 6 barb lives last then using a +5 heart to be a 9 sorc 11 barb immediately before they TR. This works for any desired past life. There is even a guide posted in these forums about it.

For a long time now this game has used the system of more power for your character requires more investment in time, I'm fine with that personaly. Dont want to spend the time then find somewhere you are happy to settle.

If 'more investment in time = more power for your chracter' is your criteria then you should be for this idea as it would take longer to max out the desired destinies than the way it is currently setup.

Currently to get all the destinies to rank 5 you need 15 million xp. With this suggestion to do the same thing you would need to earn 30 million xp.

Power gamers will still switch their active destiny to the earning xp one to earn full xp so they can earn their desired twists faster. (15 million xp)

Other gamers would say for example keep one preferred destiny active while switiching their earn xp destiny around through the normal unlock progression at higher cost, requiring more time. (30 million xp)

This is a good suggestion and would allow more players to have more fun with the destiny system.

[Thrudh]

obviously your not a golfer

Or a Bugs Bunny fan.

[Muspellsheimr]

On the 10/10 split - no this doesn't let you pick from two different spheres. It lets you pick from the sphere of the dominant class i.e. the one that you would get a past-life feat for if you were to TR. Details of dominant classes are on the wiki http://ddowiki.com/page/Past_Life_Feats

This is incorrect. When choosing your initial epic destiny, you may choose from any sphere from classes you have six or more levels in.

First life Rgr 14 Ftr 6

[Gremmlynn]

You've kind of answered your own point there - TRs into classes you don't enjoy for a past life feat, or completionist. Change Epic Destinies into something you don't want, for the fate point. Pretty similar, and big XP grind on both.

You weren't interested in the carrot before, it seems you are now. That doesn't mean they should make a short-cut to it just because you'd like the reward for doing the grind without the grind.
You can get a Tier 1 twist for practically nothing, and two Tier 1 twists for very little investment. Anything above that is going to be some work. Seems fine to me - just find some Tier 1 items you want very close to your tree; even just the stat point if that's all you want.

I do understand the "feel bad" moment of playing outside your chosen destiny - that destiny fits your playstyle and the character is built to enjoy it - but it's there to force you to play with the other destinies, and maybe even find something else you enjoy. Much like playing a TR in another class...maybe you find something about that class you enjoy that you didn't think you would. Or maybe it sucks. But you were forced into trying it if you want the reward.

The problem lies in TRing was added to the game to give players who enjoyed that sort of thing something to do that didn't break the game to much while not affecting content design at all so players could just as easily ignore it without being underpowered. This whole epic destiny thing seems to be the direction the devs are taking the game and expecting mainstream players to follow. So it would seem adding an option that is more acceptable to those players might be a good idea. Else players might just, how was it put?, find something else they enjoy.

[Gremmlynn]

This is totally true.

We get to have double the fun.

Turbine gets to make us grind twice as much (so they have to do half the work making new content).

I like it.

/signed

Or we can choose the current method of leveling whatever active destiny we don't want to be playing in order to have more time to complain about content not being developed as fast as we devour it if we like. More options are good.

[Full_Bleed]

I think they should have cut off the destiny quadrants from each other and only allowed people to get into them with a TR in the appropriate class.

Bad idea. This negatively affects multiple people - people who prefer the end-game over leveling, pretty much the entire "Divine" sphere, druids, and many a build that gains its best benefits from a destiny in a different sphere (and a rather large slap in the face to non-tank paladins and tank fighters).

Everyone can gain benefits from other spheres. That wasn't the point. The point was that because Turbine allowed people to twist, it's only natural that some will grumble about the grind to do so... because it is now perceived to be "essential" for end game. Take away the "ease" at which it's doable now and people would be forced to accept that they weren't entitled to getting all of their twists without a substantial payment of TR'ing into lives that would unlock the new quadrants.

But that ship has sailed.

Think of it this way: Turbine *could* turn the Heroic level Prestige classes into an Epic Destiny type map if they wanted to. Could call them "Heroic Destinies." And they *could* allow people to move through the prestige classes in the same way as ED's, getting twists from them as they went. The point I was making was that we don't have that option now without actually investing in the classes the prestiges are associated with and people accept that they have to take a class to get those abilities. With Epic Destinies, because they are limited only by their start point, and because people are allowed to move all over the enhancement map freely, people feel entitled to all of it without actually spending any time in the classes that the enhancements are most suited for.

Turbine did us a "favor" by embracing this classless set of enhancements (presumably, to appeal to people who play other MMO's with this sort of thing) and now we're going to hear people grumble about any restrictions at all in their movement from one ability to another.

That said, as I mentioned before, I agree that completely giving up an ED to move to another is a little silly. I think there should be a rolling max level of 5 ED Levels at all times. As you move from one ED to another, your levels should slowly move with you (as you gain the necessary XP.)

[Enoach]

Seems the issue with the Epic Destiny Leveling system boils down to...

1. Having to level destinies that don't contribute to our build <- In DDO this is subjective as there are a mired of paths one could take to create the "perfect" build for them
2. Not being able to benefit fully from the Destiny of choice while leveling another

The bargaining has come down to let us earn 1/2 the XP on a secondary destiny, while we benefit fully from our chosen path.

Even this type of system would not be perfect as one of the points of the destinies is to actually choose and use options on the tree. In the 1/2 XP realm either a person would have no access (except through twists), partial to full access allowing them to in fact have benefits from 2 destinies whether in part or in full. Slipper Slope argument being why not be able to do more.

As another pointed out for TRing, many will run a character stacked with their favorite class and than level in such a way that the class they don't enjoy can be dominant at 20 or use a TR option to change enough of the class levels to be the least desired class. They do this because it's more fun for them, Turbine doesn't mind because it is a market they sell to. The destinies does not cost to switch at a Fatespinner except for time. Twist changing does not cost to reset and redo.

This system has only been on Live for just under a month, and while I'm sure there are groups that have already "Got it All", there are also others that have not yet finished.

Honestly, I think we should all actually take the time to first work with the system we have, note our likes and dislikes, concerns and enjoyments of the current system. But wait until we have completed our journey through EDs once before we throw ideas back at Turbine.

[Noctus]

@OP

/signed.

It is just wrong to actually spend such a low amount of time in your "actual" Destiny, when you go and earn the twists you want.

[archora]

It wont be a low amount of time in your main destiny once you get finished with twists surely?

[Gremmlynn]

Nope.

Since you've already made your "once per character" decision of starting destiny -- in this case Draconic -- you no longer have any "freebie" choices. You can only switch to adjacent destinies. In your example you've only leveled Draconic, so once your druid/cleric hybrid hits level 20 your only choices are a) continue in Draconic, b) switch to Magister, or c) switch to Fatespinner.


The best way to handle destinies that I can figure is essentially unavailable to vets. The idea would be to start a brand new character you plan to make a completionist and max out 1 destiny per completionist life, preferably the destiny associated with that class. This means your completionist life-order planning would no longer be just about picking an order to maximize past life feats, but now to match up with destiny borders. It might look something like:

1) Barbarian ==> Fury
2) Ranger (skip destiny this life, straight to next life)
3) Artificer ==> Shirardi
4) Fighter ==> Deadnaught
5) Rogue ==> Shadow
6) Monk ==> Grandmaster
7) Paladin ==> Unyielding
8) Bard ==> Fatesinger
9) Wizard ==> Magister
10) Sorc ==> Draconic
11) Cleric ==> Exalted
12) Druid
13) FVS completionist with all destinies capped. Enjoy!

This sounds great on paper, but the reality is that destinies have devalued TRing so much that completionist now seems almost completely pointless. And it's obviously not a viable strategy for people who've already done much or all of their tring toward completionist.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but completionist has always been pretty pointless. Basically something to do to for those who have already done it all. The reward is about as out of line with the effort to get it as, say, doing a years worth of work for a free piece of pizza.

Tr'ing as a whole is pretty much like this. A small reward for a huge effort for those who have nothing else left to achieve in the game. Which confuses me after making epic content accessible to such a large portion of the player base, even to the point of adding xp tomes and leveling stones to speed the process, then go and make the epic destinies that are the meat of epic levels something that is only appealing to the play style of those who are more interested in where they end up than how they get there.