Toughness and moderate/heavy fortification on Casters too!

[Skavenaps]

What does 26 past lifes here have to do with anything? The only difference it makes in terms of HP, is 10 extra from barb past life. So oh no, instead of 710 HP, he'd only have 700.

he have toghness but on a hidden name called "completionist" +2 con = 25 hp. So instead of using the feat spot for toghness he picked something more powerfull.

so yes.. toghness its not a bad think. can play without it? yeah. but newbies usally do some mistakes that some extra hp will help.

[ayspam]

But I suppose it provides an opportunity for you to step in and let everyone know how awesome you are and what a waste of a feat slot it is?

If this is how you interpret my post, thats ok.

Nowhere in my post did I say how "awesome" I was, I was merely pointing out a fact of what can be achieved without toughness.

Even if you dont have 700 hp, say you have 600 hp with toughness at 25, thats 550 without it. I dont think the 50 hp are gonna make a difference.

Keep mobile dont be lazy.

[Naera]

If this is how you interpret my post, thats ok.

Nowhere in my post did I say how "awesome" I was, I was merely pointing out a fact of what can be achieved without toughness.

Even if you dont have 700 hp, say you have 600 hp with toughness at 25, thats 550 without it. I dont think the 50 hp are gonna make a difference.

Keep mobile dont be lazy.

I don't think you posted to show you awesomeness, but I think that you are trying to discuss it from the point of view of a well established player
But OP was obviously addressing new players, the toughness part might be not that obvious, but the mod/heavy fort one is
And for a new player the info you posted might be quite misleading i think

a brand new human sorc 28points build will have 160 base hp at 20
+6 con and GFL will get another 90
so 250 hp at level 20 with items accessible to anyone (like f2p players or premium players with few packs)
Of course, there are a lot of ways to increase the hp count past this, but some involve running raids and epics, with 250 hp - good luck getting into groups for such content (not impossible, but it will surely take a while)
I can also think of >100 hp which can be acquired without even touching raids/epics, which will get you in a safer zone to run harder content, but again, this will require paid packs, large guilds, knowledge after all, things which are not always readily available if you are new to the game

So it's much safer for a new player to take the feat and enhancements to have that 42+ hp buffer, it could make a lot of difference and make his life considerably easier (and spare him some frustration from the "friendly" tells about how gimp he is), and once he get better gear and the importance of extra hp is reduced - he can always switch toughness for a caster feat

[Faent]

If this is how you interpret my post, thats ok.

I was really just making a more mundane point. Threads like this aren't the place for twinked to the gills end-game geared vets to come post and say "Toughness isn't necessary" or "I solo Epic Elite without Toughness! No need to take it." What's the point of spiking a thread like this with comments like that? If it's not just to brag, I really don't see the point.

[herzkos]

I was really just making a more mundane point. Threads like this aren't the place for twinked to the gills end-game geared vets to come post and say "Toughness isn't necessary" or "I solo Epic Elite without Toughness! No need to take it." What's the point of spiking a thread like this with comments like that? If it's not just to brag, I really don't see the point.

i'm actually kind of glad to see it. for the past couple of years it's been: one toughness feat is mandatory and
more than one is ok as well. so we see 400 hp first life drow sorcs with 4 toughness feats and mental toughness.
oh joy.

[ayspam]

I don't think you posted to show you awesomeness, but I think that you are trying to discuss it from the point of view of a well established player

Thank you for not misinterpreting.

a brand new human sorc 28points build will have 160 base hp at 20 +6 con and GFL will get another 90
so 250 hp at level 20 with items accessible to anyone (like f2p players or premium players with few packs)
Of course, there are a lot of ways to increase the hp count past this, but some involve running raids and epics, with 250 hp - good luck getting into groups for such content (not impossible, but it will surely take a while)
I can also think of >100 hp which can be acquired without even touching raids/epics, which will get you in a safer zone to run harder content, but again, this will require paid packs, large guilds, knowledge after all, things which are not always readily available if you are new to the game

I see your point, but imagine this, back when I starting playing lvl cap 10 we actually built characters based around end rewards, like deleras gloves str 4, I forget the name of the con belt in tangleroot, and stuff like that, we could only dream of finding +1 tomes.

On the other hand lvl cap is now 25, +7 items arent even rare anymore you dont need special raid loot or epic stuff to have any stat +7 item. Tomes, well even +2s are relatively cheap, these items can be had by even newbies who take the time and effort to farm some plat. Toughness on item are readily available even if if they dont have necro pack. Gianthold favor +10 hp. Rage, yugo pots, and we re already nearing 350-400 which shud pretty much be enough to run high end stuff. Fine not EE,but I really dont see a first life sorc being useful at all in EE, but EN and EH why not.

Eg the other day I was farming the quest where you need to fight the waves of mobs and each time you activate the portal it drains your life, I think reclaiming the rift, I was doing normal, by the 8th wave I was at 140 hp, I forgot to shrine, and I finished the quest, I had to be careful to not get owned by the red name. I think if I can finish that quest with 140hp anyone can, whether you have tougness or not. (this is not meant to be a brag it was on EN, it s an example)

All I m trying to say is that you dont 'need' toughness, if you choose to take it you ll have a little more hp, but it is not essential to have it. On ther other hand heavy fort is.

[andreascott89]

Well, you do need toughness to open up epic toughness