Toughness and moderate/heavy fortification on Casters too!

[firemedium_jt]

Take these ASAP on your toon. Level 1 for toughness (for more hit points), and lvl4+ for fortification. Do it. Trust me.

Most experienced players do. What is the point of taking all those meta feats if you are dead or the healer has to babysit your red bar. You might find yourself riding in someone's backpack for most of the quest without it.


Moderate (75%) or heavy fortification (100%) keeps you from being killed on a critical hit by a monster especially bosses. Many bosses can one shot kill a toon on a critical hit without fortification on. Light fortification is only 25% and not worth it. You can get moderate on a robe at lvl4. Heavy on a robe at lvl8. You might find yourself riding in someone's backpack for most of the quest without it.

Wear you best fortification... always.

[muny21]

you dont need toughness on a sorc. it is a waste of a feat for an already feat starved class.

[Vengeance777]

Toughness is not a waste on a sorc. 40 HP with enhancements on a squishy class is worth the feat.

All sorcs even non human ones can afford it. Especially with the 2 new feets on the way to 25.

Toughness
Empower
Maximize
Heighten
Spell Focus

You can take all those and still have 4 feats left for your choice of:

Quicken (warforged repair, waste on any other sorc race), Extend, Greater spell focus, Spell Pen, greater spell pen, Great Charisma, Epic Spell focus, Second spell focus school, etc...

[Sonos]

you dont need toughness on a sorc. it is a waste of a feat for an already feat starved class.

True, if you are running normals and hards.

But if you like running elites especially solo. Without Toughness, the Wiz-king can doublestrike lighting strike crit you in one shot.

With Barb past life and Barb active on a max con WF, these types of spells havebrought me down within inches of death's door. Toughness or Barb active feat. opens you up for racial toughness. It isn't the hp at the right of the red bar that counts, it's the hp towards the left of the hp bar that saves you or gets you killed. The further it takes for that red bar to disappear the more survivable you are.

[muny21]

Toughness is not a waste on a sorc. 40 HP with enhancements on a squishy class is worth the feat.

All sorcs even non human ones can afford it. Especially with the 2 new feets on the way to 25.

You honestly think 40 hp is worth a feat and 3 AP points? I get over 500 hp without it and gain an extra feat. Spell pen is far more important then 40 HP especially in new content.

But hey, guess that is just me.

That is what makes this game so great. People can build their toons the way they want.

True, if you are running normals and hards.

But if you like running elites especially solo. Without Toughness, the Wiz-king can doublestrike lighting strike crit you in one shot..

I have solo'ed Elite Epics without toughness. Never take it on a my human sorcs. While it can be nice, to say it is necessary is false.

[Vengeance777]

You honestly think 40 hp is worth a feat and 3 AP points? I get over 500 hp without it and gain an extra feat. Spell pen is far more important then 40 HP especially in new content.

But hey, guess that is just me.

That is what makes this game so great. People can build their toons the way they want.

PS I have solo'ed Elite Epics without toughness. Never take it on a my human sorcs. While it can be nice, to say it is necessary is false.

2 ap for toughness. You can still max out 2 elemental lines, and other stuff with 2 points spent for 20 hp total.

You don't really need spell pen when you can one shot the drow with slas nowadays lol.

I've dropped spell pen on my sorc. Focused on getting Evocation DCs maxed and just dps stuff with fast cast spells and slas. Drow spell resistance in epics is higher than most sorcs can reach reliably without lots of past lives. I let the wizards focus on spell pen spells. As a sorc, I prefer to be an arcane cannon. I can 3 shot pretty much any mob with spell resistance in the game.

Sounds like you are running with the pre savant jack of all trades CC and DPS sorc build which is great, I used to run it as well. Nowadays I personally find it faster to obliterate a room with SLAs and spells then CC and instakill. But thats my playstyle. The old builds are still viable and if you focus on spell pen and past lives you should be fine.


Edit: I agree do what fits your playstyle. Toughness is a very good feat to take though. If you can't fit it in a build I understand. But newer players please consider it. 40 hp is very good especially endgame.

[herzkos]

Fortification: as soon as possible. . . ASAP!.

Toughness is a complete waste at low levels. a couple of aid clickies from korthos provide much
more benefit. I'd start looking at taking toughness around lvl 12 or 15 depending on whether you are
running quests at level or doing the BB dance.
Taking it at level one is a total waste of a feat. ooooh, i got 4 hp.
The biggest benefit of the toughness feat is the enhancement bonuses that it opens up and you
don't really need those until you get into the teens either. Unless, of course, you're just in love with that
hp bar from the moment you create until you're running epic elite.

[Sonos]

You honestly think 40 hp is worth a feat and 3 AP points? I get over 500 hp without it and gain an extra feat. Spell pen is far more important then 40 HP especially in new content.

But hey, guess that is just me.

That is what makes this game so great. People can build their toons the way they want.



I have solo'ed Elite Epics without toughness. Never take it on a my human sorcs. While it can be nice, to say it is necessary is false.

I should hope you have over 500hp in Epic levels. While I'm not saying it's necessary either, those that don't need it, don't need the advice. Those that do need it, this is a great recommendation. I guarantee that if you had been 2-manning wiz-king elite with me post u14, and we both got critted by the same spell, you would have been the first to go, that's not an opinion.

[firemedium_jt]

90 or 130 is a lot at low to mid lvl.

90/130 = .69 or a 31% difference.

Difference between living. Even with fortification on 80-90 hp at lvl 8-10 is pretty low. 140-150 with false life item is even better. And u need the best constitution items too. But without moderate to heavy fortification this does not matter either. Well i saw a 220+ hp lvl8 fighter yesterday that might not need heavy fortification, but that might be the only exception.

If you have 400+ hit points without toughness included later I don't care if u swap it out. That is what is really great about the game. Having options to optimize and change your toon for the level of play it is at! Not what it will be later. And every toon gets a free feat swap.

[muny21]

You don't really need spell pen when you can one shot the drow with slas nowadays lol.

I can 3 shot pretty much any mob with spell resistance in the game..

Which one is it? LOL. Dropping spell pen is very bad. Even as a sorc you need to cc, irresistable dance, dancing sphere, etc.

Just straight nuking costs way too much sp but then again that is if you run anything over casual or norm.

I should hope you have over 500hp in Epic levels. While I'm not saying it's necessary either, those that don't need it, don't need the advice. Those that do need it, this is a great recommendation. I guarantee that if you had been 2-manning wiz-king elite with me post u14, and we both got critted by the same spell, you would have been the first to go, that's not an opinion.

Any quest post U14 can instantly kill you on elite. You think wiz king was tough, wait until you get to running with the devils. Enjoy that one!

[Phidius]

Take these ASAP on your toon. Level 1 for toughness (for more hit points...

4 hitpoints at level 1 doesn't really excite me - I prefer to wait until level 3 when the racial enhancements open up.

[firemedium_jt]

4 hitpoints at level 1 doesn't really excite me - I prefer to wait until level 3 when the racial enhancements open up.

Level 3 is o.k. then. lol. Makes sense. 22 hit points right there. I have not built a toon from lvl1 in a while. Vet status... me love it. And I was kinda talking about later content than that in my recent post.

[Vengeance777]

Which one is it? LOL. Dropping spell pen is very bad. Even as a sorc you need to cc, irresistable dance, dancing sphere, etc.

Just straight nuking costs way too much sp but then again that is if you run anything over casual or norm.

Nope I dropped Spell pen and still solo epics and run Elite Epics just fine. I don't use dancing sphere anymore. 50 DC Inherent Electric Loop stuns most of the mobs. If I need further crowd control I can cast gust of wing, Flyby attack, or Otto's Irresistable dance. Favorite spell though for CC is Prismatic Spray. Costs 40 sp, has no spell resist chance, can banish, flesh to stone, fear, and other effects.

I currently have 3700 sp. I am constantly casting and rarely run out. Inherent electric loop, chain lightning, and ball lightning is usually all thats needed to clear out a room for me. Lightning bolt slas are one shot kills with a rebound, especially a rebound crit. I swap to Ottilukes/polar ray for anything electric immune.

[ayspam]

You honestly think 40 hp is worth a feat and 3 AP points? I get over 500 hp without it and gain an extra feat. Spell pen is far more important then 40 HP especially in new content.

But hey, guess that is just me.

That is what makes this game so great. People can build their toons the way they want.



I have solo'ed Elite Epics without toughness. Never take it on a my human sorcs. While it can be nice, to say it is necessary is false.

I totally agree with you, I dont have toughness either on Ayspam sitting at 705 hp buffed.

I ve also sacrificed 1 DC and took a spell pen feat. Sitting at 45 spell pen now, it s 75-80% ish on EEs, but I can t sacrifice more feats for more spell pen, so I m ok with it.

[Sonos]

I do have to agree there, level 1 is not the optimal time. If you have a Barb PL you can take it level 3 and get 20 right off the bat AND open racial toughness, BUT, you do lose out on 3hp IIRC at endgame, which for me was not an issue.

[AtomicMew]

True, if you are running normals and hards.

But if you like running elites especially solo. Without Toughness, the Wiz-king can doublestrike lighting strike crit you in one shot.

With Barb past life and Barb active on a max con WF, these types of spells havebrought me down within inches of death's door. Toughness or Barb active feat. opens you up for racial toughness. It isn't the hp at the right of the red bar that counts, it's the hp towards the left of the hp bar that saves you or gets you killed. The further it takes for that red bar to disappear the more survivable you are.

That's why you use a pale lavender when you face the wiz king. Though honestly, you usualyl don't even need one. hide behind a pillar, duck out every now and then and throw a disintegrate.

Sorc is just too feat starved to waste a feat on toughness. I guess if you're going for some tank-ish build with quickened reconstruct that can kite trash in eLOB, otherwise most sorcs would benefit from a spell focus or spell penetration.

[Jaid314]

a fully-geared sorcerer can probably drop toughness without too much of a problem. the people who need to be told that heavy fortification is important, on the other hand... they probably need to also have toughness.

edit: oh, and just because a spell pen feat won't get you to 100% on epic elite drow, doesn't mean it won't help against other enemies. i'd still consider spell pen to be a valuable feat choice, personally.

[Faent]

I totally agree with you, I dont have toughness either on Ayspam sitting at 705 hp buffed.

LoL. Says the man with 26 past lives. When folks say "Take Toughness", they aren't advising people like you. But I suppose it provides an opportunity for you to step in and let everyone know how awesome you are and what a waste of a feat slot it is?

[AtomicMew]

LoL. Says the man with 26 past lives. When folks say "Take Toughness", they aren't advising people like you. But I suppose it provides an opportunity for you to step in and let everyone know how awesome you are and what a waste of a feat slot it is?

What does 26 past lifes here have to do with anything? The only difference it makes in terms of HP, is 10 extra from barb past life. So oh no, instead of 710 HP, he'd only have 700.

[Missing_Minds]

What does 26 past lifes here have to do with anything? The only difference it makes in terms of HP, is 10 extra from barb past life. So oh no, instead of 710 HP, he'd only have 700.

A player with 26 lives..... I just don't have that sort of time to spend on a game.

I assume that they've learned and memorized the game. Something new players haven't.
They've learned what to do and when, aka skills. Skills new players don't have yet.
They have gear for every occasion and level. New players don't.

They've learned to adjust for the HP they have and how to make it work through skill and knowledge. HP is the only buffer new players have to learn with.

You may not need it, but it is invaluable for new players until they start to learn more.

My take at least.