Longevity Guild Bonus

[Thorzian]

Bunk!! how you been old friend. This thread is hilarious btw. how's yws been treating you. I'm back after about 11 months off and diggin the new stuff. Fallen Immortals didnt collapse with my absence (yay) so now I have a guild to lead still. good thing these posters werent my SiCs

The offer is still there for you guys to come over. You YWS guys are more then welcome.

Fallen Immortals- Thelanis. modified account size- 43. that is 43 members who help each other with pulls, quest/raid unlocks, and gear grinding. 43 members of one of the premier raiding guilds on Thelanis.. which of course means in all of DDO

[Bunker]

You play your game, I play mine. Different strokes for different folks.

However, the universal system which is guild renown, ships, and decay should be fair for all types.

The answer to dodging decay is not to "trim the fat" (aka remove members from guild).

I get that some posters use this method currently, but usage =/= solution.

-Bunk

p.s. /waves Thorzian. Cya around Thelanis

[Bunker]

isnt the information i spewed out about added lag/glitching the same exact thing that apparently 80% of the posters spew out.
"oh this idea is bad cuz it will add lag to current issue, or this idea is bad cuz this is already glitch"

while yes i am saying that i am doing what i usually hate to hear, this time rather than saying "it takes up dev time and will be glicthy" I am saying it will be glitchy, make it more rewarding to have inactive characters, lessen guild decay (cuz that essentially what this will do) and have more guilds pop up, and 1 man can grind a guild to level 25 and buy a ship. this dose take up system resources and server memory. mainly cuz there is less punishment and more reward, the current system i think is fine. If causal players get ostracized from a guild so be it, they dont need a guild and the guild dont need them. This is about system management cuz as i said, every guild ship takes up memory resources from the servers, every ship, every buffs, buff placements, ship type/size.

Is this just another idea to support the cleaning house of idol guilds? Guild ship instances take up memory? Did you really just say that.

At least use a more valid reason to support your point of view. All I see is assumption. It is clever, but ultimatly an assumption of how the inner working of the game operate.

[Quetzacoala]

Every day I notice another no named guild making level 90 or so and it got me to thinking. I am the guild leader of a guild that has been around since the beginning. Now, I am sure that Billy Bob’s Bigbutt BBQ is a great guild and all. I am also sure that the week they have been playing is awesome! The reality is that the guilds that have been around for a long time are getting penalized. A lot of us formed a group out of people that come and go throughout the years so we do hold a level of inactive members. Because of that most of the older guilds are left to go back and forth over the same level. How about a longevity bonus to guilds who have been around awhile and have members that have been around as well? I would suggest a similar bonus that have been applied to small guilds also be applied to guilds based on longevity regardless of size.

You should be happy for the other guilds that are achieving level 90; regardless of whether you think they deserve it or not, they obviously put in the work required to reach that level.

[V_mad_jester_V]

Is this just another idea to support the cleaning house of idol guilds? Guild ship instances take up memory? Did you really just say that.

At least use a more valid reason to support your point of view. All I see is assumption. It is clever, but ultimatly an assumption of how the inner working of the game operate.

not assumption, there is still data required to keep track of every guilds ship, buffs, buff placement, level of buffs allowed per ship. Its no different than your computer, every time you save a file in note pad it takes up a small bit of space, the more times you make and save files through not pad the more space it take up. Or do you believe you can make an unlimited amount of note pad saves without repercussions to pc memory or performance?

I make these so called "assumptions" for being a guy who grew up working on computers, fixing computers, and building computers.

so yes its based on real facts that every piece of information is bits of memory takin up. The data dosent go to some magical world and stored there until you log into your game or enter your guild ship. The data is saved on the servers memory.

other factors in data memory issues is tons of characters (played, unplayed, alts, inactive, ect) again all that information has to be stored somewhere.

[Bunker]

Your correlation between memory usage and guild decay system is assumption.

Thx for the notepad analogy, but memory storage and removal of memory usage is not solved by guild decay and the lose of small guilds.

Good imagination but honestly, that is all it is. Just a thought.

[madmaxhunter]

isnt the information i spewed out about added lag/glitching the same exact thing that apparently 80% of the posters spew out.
"oh this idea is bad cuz it will add lag to current issue, or this idea is bad cuz this is already glitch"

while yes i am saying that i am doing what i usually hate to hear, this time rather than saying "it takes up dev time and will be glicthy" I am saying it will be glitchy, make it more rewarding to have inactive characters, lessen guild decay (cuz that essentially what this will do) and have more guilds pop up, and 1 man can grind a guild to level 25 and buy a ship. this dose take up system resources and server memory. mainly cuz there is less punishment and more reward, the current system i think is fine. If causal players get ostracized from a guild so be it, they dont need a guild and the guild dont need them. This is about system management cuz as i said, every guild ship takes up memory resources from the servers, every ship, every buffs, buff placements, ship type/size.

Wow, what are you talking about?!?

Less decay = less guilds/instances.
Today's decay = tons of small or tiny guilds/instances.

I'm done, I've posted 5 times today, I feel that's enough for anybody.

[samthedagger]

This is not a bad idea. I would think a 1% bonus per month of guild existence being knocked off the guild decay rate would probably be fine and perhaps cap the guild decay rate to a minimum of 50%. So if your guild is around for four years, you get half the guild decay of a brand new guild. I think this would encourage guilds to stay more active too because the longer they are in the guild, the longer their earned renown stays around and the easier it gets to level. I really empathize with the fact that it seems only small guilds with hyper-active players get the big ships. I am in a medium-sized guild and we've been stuck at 73-74 for about a month. We got up to level 60 pretty quickly then adopted a slightly more strict policy about inactivity because we couldn't get past it. Still, it has taken nearly a year to get from 60 to 73-74. We have a small number of highly active players who log every day then we have quite a few more casual players. It would be nice if we weren't penalized so much for being a "nice" guild.

[djl]

I support this.

Another big problem is that say you have a group of friends you run with all the time. They decide they want to start up their own guild-- however there are seven of you. The way the renown formula is designed, you get the maximum bonus for having six people. Any beyond that and you lose 15% maximum bonus per person in addition to steadily rising decay penalties. So, one person ends up getting left out because the guild wants to maximize their bonuses. That's not fun.

[eris2323]

Your correlation between memory usage and guild decay system is assumption.

Thx for the notepad analogy, but memory storage and removal of memory usage is not solved by guild decay and the lose of small guilds.

Good imagination but honestly, that is all it is. Just a thought.

Not only is it an assumption, it's a bad assumption.

Do you realize that most of the work of the game is done by the client? It's not causing a drain on the servers. The very most would be a small database entry with what guild has what buffs, and what ship. They could have used numbers for it, even, making a very small array. It's peanuts. It's nothing. If this was a problem, we wouldn't have cosmetic pets.

You have no idea of how modern mmo's work things mr jester... your theory about the programming and resources required is wrong.

All mmo's nowadays are offloading the work to the client, that's why we download it. I myself have programmed systems that are just like this - offload the work required to the actual client, only use the server to store the information you need in a secure environment that can't be hacked.

Grasping at straws?

To the original poster, I do agree, long term guilds could use a helping hand. And I also agree the guild system is entirely unfriendly to all casual and new players.

Personally, I don't understand turbines decision to have a guild system that penalizes new players and casuals. Seems kinda backwards, to me.

[V_mad_jester_V]

Your correlation between memory usage and guild decay system is assumption.

Thx for the notepad analogy, but memory storage and removal of memory usage is not solved by guild decay and the lose of small guilds.

Good imagination but honestly, that is all it is. Just a thought.

no but it is a small thing and yes it is some speculation on my end, and information i have gathered by he said she said. Originally when i started playing this i posed many similar questions bout the game, initially the first guild i ran wasnt structured like my current guild and failed in the first week. But one of the things i heard over time from players, forums, and the ilk is control of system memory, however that is only a small part of it. The decay seems to be more in place for high level guilds, rather than small level guilds. If your in a high level guild i can understand your hurting, but trim the fat already, start figuring out which players contribute, while which ones are factors of holding your guild back. If your in a 50 plus member guild, i doubt you have time to run with all of them. As i've seen many a time larger guilds separate out into sub groups. Social factor, character level factor, friend factor. Those people, if not directly linked with the guild leader/officers, tend to leave to form their own guilds. Some times they blindly send invites and recruit tons of people for shiggles without once running with them, and thats on them for doing the "Ima suck up every non guilded player in teh game" tactic. I still get random invites into a guild almost every time i roll a new toon.

as it stands i still have several members MIA, now im figuring out who they are, why their MIA and are they alts to some one in my guild (im not going to memorize everyones alts, heck i even get my many alts mixed up at times). Im also factoring if these people contribute to the guild or sit there and look pretty, if they just sit there and look pretty /boot.

and yes cutting the fat is an option to guild decay. Do you really want someones bank toon sitting in your guild while their main is in another guild but is still adding decay? do you want somebodies hardly used alt, while their main is in another guild adding decay? thats fat that to be trimmed. everyday that bank toon sits in your guild because that said toon "belongs to a friend" your making yourself suffer, and that so called friend is making you suffer.

im not saying boot the casuals, they can hold some weight. Im not saying boot inactives only boot the ones who serve no purpose or you know is pretty much never going to return. "i wanna keep them around in case they pop on and say hi" well you know what, every time they do that their hurting you. I dont agree with the "log on once a month" ordeal either, its better to just log on say "hey ima be gone for 3 months" then log off. Those people you keep around who log on once a month to say hi, the log off till next month is hurting your guild. Just add them to your friends list, they can still say hi when they log on and there will be no guild decay.

every day a player is inactive there is guild decay, if they are consistently inactive for a month log on to look active but go back into inactive status, your suffering guild decay until that account is considered inactive once again. so again you are only doing it to youselves as a guild leader. I know you want a "friendly" environment, and there is a way to do it while keeping the business end (think small business with likable boss more your friend not your boss, not corporation).

[Tshober]

The best and most helpful thing that could be done for guilds that have been around a long time would be to eliminate renown decay entirely. This would not just help long time guilds, it would improve DDO overall. There would no longer be an excuse/incentive to shun casual and social players. DDO as a whole would benefit because more casual and social players would be able to find a good home here, rather than being shunned and driven to other MMO's. Of course some power gamer guilds would still not accept them, but many others would if they were not being penalized for doing so. It would mean more revenue for Turbine and more people playing DDO and ALL guilds would be able to advance, not just those that shun casual and social players.

[V_mad_jester_V]

Not only is it an assumption, it's a bad assumption.

Do you realize that most of the work of the game is done by the client? It's not causing a drain on the servers. The very most would be a small database entry with what guild has what buffs, and what ship. They could have used numbers for it, even, making a very small array. It's peanuts. It's nothing. If this was a problem, we wouldn't have cosmetic pets.

You have no idea of how modern mmo's work things mr jester... your theory about the programming and resources required is wrong.

All mmo's nowadays are offloading the work to the client, that's why we download it. I myself have programmed systems that are just like this - offload the work required to the actual client, only use the server to store the information you need in a secure environment that can't be hacked.

Grasping at straws?

To the original poster, I do agree, long term guilds could use a helping hand. And I also agree the guild system is entirely unfriendly to all casual and new players.

Personally, I don't understand turbines decision to have a guild system that penalizes new players and casuals. Seems kinda backwards, to me.

actually pets cause lag as well, when in many quest im often asked to put my pet away, and once the players put their pets away, the one with the lag issue no longer has lag issues. and that off loaded work still relies on the efficiency and performance of the servers. Just like i could set my computer could be the "server" and my laptop could be the "client" but the client wont work great until i defrag the computer, clear up memory, ect. Thats what server maintenance is for, cleaning up the bugs, and increasing performance as much as possible. Still dosent change the possibility of data over load.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

/boot inactive accounts, if their gone for a month of more boot em. My guild policy is 1 month inactivity and your out, unless you give prior notice on guild forums (vacations, internet being cut out soon, moving, ect)

This is too easy of an obvious solution. As of right now there is no way to determine what toons go with what accounts.

This issue is even more compounded in a larger guild where officers/leaders may not know everyone.


I think in keeping with the spirit of the OP I think that guilds over a certain age should receive some relief from guild reknown loss.

[SFG-Wolfie]

It was interesting when I wrote this knowing full well there would be the type of responses shown above. FranOhmsford brings up an interesting point. It does take two minutes to log in unless you are included in some of the examples I gave or any other real life issue. I spent 23 years in the Army and three tours in war. When I speak of not being able to log in while deployed, suffice it to say that I know what I am talking about. Spending over two years in and out of hospitals and multiple surgeries getting put back together from being wounded, should I have been dropped from not being able to move? Anyone that has had a newborn (we have four kids so again, I probably know what I am talking about) would also understand the want to log in taking precedence over a little sleep is not realistic. Yes, even two minutes...

Tshober brings up a great argument supporting this suggestion. Having a bonus for longevity would keep guilds from “dumping” players for, God forbid… going to war or studying for college finals. When that player returns they find a community and old friends still intact. As for “old friends” debate, totally off topic. Rian made a great point. With U14, I have had a few come back to the game and find they are still in the guild. These are people that played a lot but for one reason or another they took a break. They were happy to find us here and were very glad for the support in new material. I will point out that during trips around the USA I have had guildies show up and we go out toasting a drink or ten. During a stint in the hospital I received a package to find a funny shirt and a great card from my guildies wishing me well. I do not begrudge anyone’s method for guild management but Sacred Flame Guardians on Sarlona will not throw someone out for being absent for any reason. As a group we feel the guild is better for taking care of each other, whether it is a +3 tome they need or a get well card. Bunker’s comment was spot on! It should be about like minded individuals playing a game and friends/life should be over guild renown. DJL replies with the optimum guild size of six and people being left out. Having a bonus could change player’s perception on guild size, maybe being more open to look at the guild as a solid group of people enjoying the game instead of power leveling a guild to 100. This would be a positive move in retaining a player base and assist the casual player in feeling more a part of the game and a guild. Read other forums and count how many people complain about being treated wrongly in guild for being gone a bit or in group for being new. Do a quick scan and see how many people complain about those of us that have been playing a long time. I may not agree with them but I appreciate their viewpoint. It is not my feelings in question but theirs. If those feelings become too much they quit. Before we see a slew of “Who cares?” responses let us look at it a bit. That player who leaves will not learn the game and be valuable in a group later on when you are pugging it. They will not be that rogue you need to start the VON 5/6 raid with the LFM up for over and hour. They will be part of a population of angry players that moved to another game because of treatment by us. Meaning, Turbine loses another member. We lose a potential group member. All of us also lose a potential guildie that could have been awesome with a little experience. For those that have been around longer will remember the LFM’s and population within a server before they combined them up.

But, alas, we have moved from the initial and realistic argument of what I stated in the beginning. There should be a longevity bonus for guilds. I really do not care how big your guild is, how you handle people that are away, or what you do within your guild. The “suggestion” within the ‘Suggestion & Ideas’ forum was a bonus for guilds that have been around. I believe this would be a positive move for all.

[Tshober]

But, alas, we have moved from the initial and realistic argument of what I stated in the beginning. There should be a longevity bonus for guilds. I really do not care how big your guild is, how you handle people that are away, or what you do within your guild. The “suggestion” within the ‘Suggestion & Ideas’ forum was a bonus for guilds that have been around. I believe this would be a positive move for all.

Obviously, I favor going much further and eliminating renown decay entirely. But any reduction in it is a move in the right direction. So I support your suggestion on those grounds.

/signed

[S0rdmasta]

actually not at all am i saying that.

Look, I don't know what you're thinking. But that is exactly what you're saying. And fwiw, I'm not dealing with a small group. I'm dealing with one of the larger guilds thats been around for years, long before ships. We already trimmed anything that could be considered "fat" a long time ago. For some time now we have been into the trimming friends phase of things. Oh and as everyone has pointed out, the current system is great for one man bands and splinter guilds.

But, alas, we have moved from the initial and realistic argument of what I stated in the beginning. There should be a longevity bonus for guilds. I really do not care how big your guild is, how you handle people that are away, or what you do within your guild. The “suggestion” within the ‘Suggestion & Ideas’ forum was a bonus for guilds that have been around. I believe this would be a positive move for all.

I would support a longevity bonus. Its one of the better ideas I've heard yet.

[Xynot2]

I will NEVER put guild levels and amenities over guildies. We dont invite just anyone so the people we get, we want to keep. I cant believe all of the shallow people that value guild levels and a garbage buff over a person you enjoy playing with and will again when they return to the game. Everything on the ship is worthless compared to having fun in the game.

Shame on all of you

/signed X16- one fore every toon I have.

[Hutoth]

(very thoughtful and informed retrospective on thread derailment)

+1 and /signed again for emphasis

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Every day I notice another no named guild making level 90 or so and it got me to thinking. I am the guild leader of a guild that has been around since the beginning. Now, I am sure that Billy Bob’s Bigbutt BBQ is a great guild and all. I am also sure that the week they have been playing is awesome! The reality is that the guilds that have been around for a long time are getting penalized. A lot of us formed a group out of people that come and go throughout the years so we do hold a level of inactive members. Because of that most of the older guilds are left to go back and forth over the same level. How about a longevity bonus to guilds who have been around awhile and have members that have been around as well? I would suggest a similar bonus that have been applied to small guilds also be applied to guilds based on longevity regardless of size.

Kudos! That's actually not a bad idea. Excellent in fact.