Why are DND reviews so bad?

[cut84li4e]

Ok to start with, there is no forum that I saw titled "general discussion", so I'd imagine something like this would go here. Anyways if not, feel free to move it or flame me, I really could care less.

I just wanted to know, what do people think of all these "reviews", I mean I search DDO reviews or even DDO in general on youtube and you get like 50 pages of "first-impressions" or "reviews", guess where the person is starting at? Korthos. Never gets outa korthos, never goes past the tutorial. I mean is it to much to ask for someone to post a good review of this beautiful game? It sickens me, then they go and say "yeah well, its ok, WoW is still better". Its like HOW IS IT BETTER? You pay SO much for WoW, its cartoony and garbage, has no originality. Its trash.

The only and I mean ONLY decent review of DDO i'v ever seen was the CynicalBrit(Totalbiscuit), he did I think 3 videos of mid level content. I'v never seen any other person do a decent review besides him, and if they have, its annotations, and 240p Quality with hardly any research, but sadly more than 99% of other reviewers.

I remember the one review written on, what was it, mmo(something).com. God awful, made me sick that they'd let some idiot write that, and then the re-review blew to. No one even tries, yet they give WoW 10000/10. Its like saying CoD is the best FPS, when god sake, its the worst thing to ever hit the consoles, atleast Modern Warfare series is. But thats a rant for another site, and another forum.

I just wanna see is their any good reviews out there written by any intelligent people?
Share you're thoughts, your own reviews, whatever you'd like. I just wanna see what people have to say. The DDO community is one of the nicest, funniest, and helpful i'v ran into in my time of gaming, I might be young(17) but i'm hell of a nerd so i'v seen alot of gaming communities. And let me tell you, you guys are like the best, and League of Legends and CoD are without a doubt in my mind the WORST on the planet.

[shadereaper33]

Personally, i don't pay attention to critic reviews for this specific reason. My opinions, likes, and dislikes are frequently quite different from theirs, so I find them to be a waste of time.

[Flavilandile]

There's several problems with DDO Reviews out there :

- The first one is that some date from the original game ( 2006 )...
And well at that time, LVL 10 cap, less than 20% of the actual content, One Raid : Tempest Spine, then two with a buggy as hell VON. No Mail, no AH, no Explorers, no DDO Store, no alot of things. Rogues dying from traps in tutorial quest, other characters dying from their tutorial quest.
Lots of PnP players attracted there thinking it was going to be the MMO version of NWN Roleplay/semi-hardcore servers.
Usually those review don't talk about Korthos as it didn't exist.

- The second is that some comes from FTP launch...
They were just following the trend the others had set. At that time going FTP was considered telling to the world that the game was a failure and was going to be dead soon.

- The third is that many reviewers are disgruntled because DDO is not the MMO version of their NWN/NWN2 favorite play world.

- The Fourth is that many reviewers are disgruntled because DDO is not ( well was not ) set up in the Forgotten Realms.
Many PnP Players don't care about Eberron, they consider it a setting forced down their throat by Wizard and prefer Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Krynn, ... well the historical settings, Eberron is just the new kid.

- Last those that write reviews are usually the disgruntled ones ( or they are members of the press and write what they are told to write )... The not disgruntled are playing the game and enjoying it, they don't have time to write reviews.

[Zephea]

I read your OPa couple of days back and have been thinking about it a bit. And I jumped onto a couple of MMO reivew sites and I see what you mean. Korthos island, while pretty, is really not a true taste of the game

The one exception to this that I saw was linked here - can't remember who it was but they were given a pre rolled up and geared up character and did the first U13 quest. Although they said that they had played DDO before I wondered if they had got to level 16 before from watching them play. They did not pick up the quest correctly and the effect of them coming into the harbour after completeing that part was lost. I will give them credit that making a video, trying to address significant user questions in an interview format and play something you haven't played for a while would take coordination. However at the heart of it really the viewer's genuine feel of what was in the game and what was coming was probably not represented as fairly as it could have been. Particularly the combat and party part of it.

Half of me wants to jump onto a MMO review website and start a thread "Rate your MMO reviewers" with participants to review reviews of the MMOs they know well and rate the published reviewers genuine engagement and representation of the MMO that they are reviewing, and therefore give a score to the reviewer themselves. I am not impressed by a 'reviewer' who is meant to be 'famous' or just some how known when all they do is starter material. I want a genuine review, not a 'celebrity personality'.

Part of it I wonder how hard it is for a reivewer to go to a games company and say 'Hey can you loan me an account, equip a couple of chars, let me play for a week at mid level and end game level and get a feel for your MMO?' How receptive are MMOs to this concept I wonder? It would certainly make for better reviews. The reviewer of course could do some prework and read forums and decide which types of chars both for personal preference and for best representation of what the playerbase is using.

Anyway, I have a friend who was previously a PC hardware and games journalist. I am yet to ask him how this is done. But your very good question in the OP has made me think more about some of the nonsense I read.

[cut84li4e]

I effected someone :O

ACHIEVMENT GET

Yes, almost every review I see is just utter pathetic garbage from the release of the game, never revisited, and if so, just given worse reviews. Its so sad, I don't want to see famous people review it, the reason they are famous is probably because they are "funny" or some bull. Need someone intelligent, your average joe to review it. Someone who no one has ever heard of, and can honestly give a debate or information on the game.

And as I type this, I wonder to myself, why the hell don't I just do this?

I honestly might, and just post it here for the players to decide if they like it, then maybe take it elsewhere. Who knows, just a thought.

[janave]

Personally, i don't pay attention to critic reviews for this specific reason. My opinions, likes, and dislikes are frequently quite different from theirs, so I find them to be a waste of time.

^This

Make up your own opinions, noone knows better than you whats good for you. With that said, if reading reviews before trying a product gives you a relief, then go for it . However in the latter case expect vastly opinionated/subjective points.

[Tinrae]

Barring major flaws like bugs and stability, it just comes down to taste and I wouldn't feel defensive about some poor reviews. Every game gets them. DDO is doing fine and new players come check it out all the time.

Personally, I play a lot of games (520 on Steam alone) and while DDO is very fun and unique in certain aspects, it's not exactly the best game I've ever played either. I actually think the Metacritic scores are fairly spot-on to my own impressions even though some of the reviews are very old. It's a decent score but not a chart-topper (which I don't feel DDO will ever be, as it is a niche IP).

That'd also be a good place to post your own user review if you'd like to help get the word out!

[Lilliana]

There are some good and decent reviews of DDO out there, most are made after the F2P launch in 2009.

Eurogamer has one here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/du...line-re-review
They give it 8 out of 10, which I find is a good score.
MMORPG.com also has a re-review here: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...-ReReview.html
They also give it 8 out of 10.

I like what mmorpg.com says in their conclusion:

"DDO: In Conclusion

Dungeons & Dragons Online definitely offers a lot to both the casual and the hardcore players out there. Few MMOs can rival it in terms of customization, and that complete control over the spectrum of your characters’ proficiencies, abilities and talents is a refreshing change. The frequent updates introduce new monsters, zones and equipment into the game on a fairly regular schedule, so things don’t get too stale. If you’re looking for PvP or a stellar crafting system, you might want to look elsewhere; if you happen to be looking for a quality game perfect for a group of friends—or anyone bold enough to indulge in PUGs—then this one might be well worth your time to download. Considering the F2P offers a nice selection of options, you don’t have to invest a cent to give this one a try, and you don’t have to be a D&D player or rules expert to succeed (though it does help), there really isn’t anything to lose. And if you’ve tried this one out before, it might be time to take a second look—I’m certainly glad I did."

But again, if you find this bad, then I think we will just have to agree to disagree on what is good and bad Because I find the conclusion positive and good.

But I often find older reviews and older opinions on the game to be negative and not all have figured out that the game changed. And I don't think I would take anything said on youtube serious :-P

[captain1z]

There are a few factors involved.
1- a site or mag is only going to print a review to get traffic, thus it must be timely (the new shiney)
2 - any new players must go through korthos and as a new player, this could take about 6 hours.

DDOs initial reviews around launch were, buggy, 1 raid, very little content. All very true at the time and unless you were a diehard fan of dnd, you probably would have left after 30-60 days tops. In 1 years time this had not improved drasticly.

That was it for reviews. DDO was not the new shiney after 60 days and the press moved on to whatever was. DDO did get a second series of reviews after going free to play. Gone was Euphonias challenge, which was our initial training quest and here was korthos.

Korthos is a fair representation of what ddo is but its more of a single player experience. Korthos is separated into snowy side and sunny side and grouping on snowy side is pretty much not gonna happen for many reasons. The harbor is where your really going to start encountering groups but is a reviewer going to put in 6 hrs to cover a game thats been out for several years already? Not likely, as there is very little for them to gain by doing so.

Any in depth revies off ddo that really highlight whats best about it:
The harbor
The market
Gianthold
Meridia
Motu content

Would need to come from Turbine or a dedicated player. Even if you do create such a review, you'have a very small audience.
A lots changed over time but with all the new games that come out every few months, its hard to look back and see ddo.

Its a gem that could still use some more polish and is still out shined by all the new shineys. What it does have is longevity.

[Kalari]

Actually I wrote a pretty good review of the new content for End Gamers magazine, it helps working for a gaming magazine now to help promote the game who has held my attention for nearly 5 years now. Honestly though it takes people who play the game to give decent reviews and not many of us are in a position to do so a lot of the times. I originally did not have this job but the moment I got it I decided to try my best to direct positive traffic towards this game and Lotro.

My Menace of the Underdark overview

As I continue to play and get information I will continue to write up for the game. The magazine is pretty new though so getting our info out there has been the majority of my duties as well. But as long as I am employed there DDO will have a voice.

[Xynot2]

Critical review for the movie True Lies was horrid. I think it's the best action movie every made. Critics are morons who spew garbage at good stuff to make themselves feel important. There is only one film critic I ever listened to and he was teamed with a woman. He review guy flicks and she reviewed chick flicks and they nailed the opinion of the population every time. Including the only thing they ever would agree on and those are the artsy fartsy films ... they panned them all but the rarest few.

Never listen to critics. With as wrong as they always are, how do they still have jobs?

[xveganrox]

Video game reviews are pretty notoriously biased based on whether they're made by a so-called "triple-A" publisher or not. Case in point: Diablo 3.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iii

Metacritic critic review: 88/100. Average user review: 3.8/10

[Zephea]

Problem with people saying 'don't read reivews' or 'don't listen to critics' is really that I only have so much time and energy to invest in things and therefore I want opinions as to whether or not something is worth such investment. I want those opinions to be dispassionate and comprehensive so that I can weigh whether those opinions work with my own personal interests.

So in terms of games I want a genuine perspective of what the end game looks like. It will be a long time before I get there - is it worth my time? Will I have fun? (Now that is a very non-objective question in a lot of ways). How hard is it going to be for me to genuinely engage with content, and how much content, given my resources of time, money and skill?

Now funny this topic has come up as that MMORPG site has just done a reivew on MoTU

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...rk-Review.html

They've given it a score of 7.5. I don't think that a number of points that this Robert Lashley has made are fair but there are others that he has made that are.

[captain1z]

Video game reviews are pretty notoriously biased based on whether they're made by a so-called "triple-A" publisher or not. Case in point: Diablo 3.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/diablo-iii

Metacritic critic review: 88/100. Average user review: 3.8/10

Triple a publishers throw a lot of advertising money around. If they pull thier add dollars away from an outlet it hurts pretty badly. Independent sites arent getting those dollars and often dont know any better, so they print "honest reviews" but dont always last very long.

Problem with people saying 'don't read reivews' or 'don't listen to critics' is really that I only have so much time and energy to invest in things and therefore I want opinions as to whether or not something is worth such investment. I want those opinions to be dispassionate and comprehensive so that I can weigh whether those opinions work with my own personal interests.

So in terms of games I want a genuine perspective of what the end game looks like. It will be a long time before I get there - is it worth my time? Will I have fun? (Now that is a very non-objective question in a lot of ways). How hard is it going to be for me to genuinely engage with content, and how much content, given my resources of time, money and skill?

Now funny this topic has come up as that MMORPG site has just done a reivew on MoTU

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/g...rk-Review.html

They've given it a score of 7.5. I don't think that a number of points that this Robert Lashley has made are fair but there are others that he has made that are.

Will give that a read now, thnx.

[captain1z]

Actually I wrote a pretty good review of the new content for End Gamers magazine, it helps working for a gaming magazine now to help promote the game who has held my attention for nearly 5 years now. Honestly though it takes people who play the game to give decent reviews and not many of us are in a position to do so a lot of the times. I originally did not have this job but the moment I got it I decided to try my best to direct positive traffic towards this game and Lotro.

My Menace of the Underdark overview

As I continue to play and get information I will continue to write up for the game. The magazine is pretty new though so getting our info out there has been the majority of my duties as well. But as long as I am employed there DDO will have a voice.

Cant wait to read yours also.

[joshuafields]

Ok to start with, there is no forum that I saw titled "general discussion", so I'd imagine something like this would go here. Anyways if not, feel free to move it or flame me, I really could care less.

I just wanted to know, what do people think of all these "reviews", I mean I search DDO reviews or even DDO in general on youtube and you get like 50 pages of "first-impressions" or "reviews", guess where the person is starting at? Korthos. Never gets outa korthos, never goes past the tutorial. I mean is it to much to ask for someone to post a good review of this beautiful game? It sickens me, then they go and say "yeah well, its ok, WoW is still better". Its like HOW IS IT BETTER? You pay SO much for WoW, its cartoony and garbage, has no originality. Its trash.

The only and I mean ONLY decent review of DDO i'v ever seen was the CynicalBrit(Totalbiscuit), he did I think 3 videos of mid level content. I'v never seen any other person do a decent review besides him, and if they have, its annotations, and 240p Quality with hardly any research, but sadly more than 99% of other reviewers. I speak not as a critic nor do I believe them. But I speak from personal exp from playing game both as f2p and p2p.

I remember the one review written on, what was it, mmo(something).com. God awful, made me sick that they'd let some idiot write that, and then the re-review blew to. No one even tries, yet they give WoW 10000/10. Its like saying CoD is the best FPS, when god sake, its the worst thing to ever hit the consoles, atleast Modern Warfare series is. But thats a rant for another site, and another forum.

I just wanna see is their any good reviews out there written by any intelligent people?
Share you're thoughts, your own reviews, whatever you'd like. I just wanna see what people have to say. The DDO community is one of the nicest, funniest, and helpful i'v ran into in my time of gaming, I might be young(17) but i'm hell of a nerd so i'v seen alot of gaming communities. And let me tell you, you guys are like the best, and League of Legends and CoD are without a doubt in my mind the WORST on the planet.

OK, I am gonna state the pros and cons of DDO and why I quit after one year of playing from 2012 to 2013. I hope to not offend anyone but I feel like I am going to either way. PROS: 1, good graphics and gameplay, 2: lots of f2p gameplay, 3: many friendly people,4: Fair price range for p2p, 5: many different classes to play. CONS: 1, servers are sometimes very prone to lag and on a laptop can fry your comp. 2: on higher levels in epic questing many ppl have an Elitist I am better than everyone attitude. 3: In my opinion things like Astral shards are misleading and a waste of ddo points and how ddo store sells useless cosmetic gear for high prices. 4: Alignment, I mean Like my assassin and drow are good aligned. that Is not so In pen and paper. I feel like DDO has screwed up the Alignment system. 5: If u cant afford to pay you gotta make up 100 toons to go favor farming which Is too repetitive. 6: Rogues are way Underpowered, a lvl 4 pally or wiz Is pretty much Godlike and a lvl 20 rogue seems to be too weak In my opinion. like for example In my x guild a lvl 4 pally has a reflex save of 50 where a lvl 20 rogue with Items and buffs may hit 27 to 30 on reflex with a dex of 30 or more. 7: You are pretty much forced If you are a rogue to quest with ppl and post an lfm which may take hours b4 anyone joins. too time consuming and I dont always want to quest with ppl. 8: Misleading weapon stats. 9: having to carry 10 sets of armor and weapons to fight each type of dungeon. 11: Aggrevating toolbars and chat which Is hard to mess with on a laptop and often u hit 1 wrong key and you got pages popping up in middle of battle, not to mention all these toolbars and diff icons and windows ends up covering up half your screen. 11: Misleading quest descriptions like This quest Is average difficulty when half time Its tougher than a challenging quest. 12: Multi classing Has pretty much become mandatory In order to play game and very unfair to ppl who try to play game as single class not to mention Clerics use swords where I remember clerics In D&D never could use weapons that drew blood. Too many loopholes from original D&D. 13: And why I finally quit ddo. Customer service and game mods are near nonexistant or you get error after you waste time sending In a help ticket. Sorry to say cuz I love DDO but I never had Issue with any game much as I had with ddo and It saddens my heart to quit but after a year of Items disappearing from my inventory and lag even tho I am using a 3000 dollar gaming pc with excellent internet connection. I had enough. perhaps I will come back cuz I love DDO but I hope quite honestly some old school D&D comes out as this game has very little In commom with D&D I grew up with. I mean no offense to anyone but this Is how I honestly feel. perhaps I will come back or find a game more true to D&D style play.

[Charononus]

Necro post rage quit you sir win #1 rage quit post.

[lyrecono]

OG, I can’t believe that I’m the one responding to this mess….
But here goes:

OK, I am gonna state the pros and cons of DDO and why I quit after one year of playing from 2012 to 2013. I hope to not offend anyone but I feel like I am going to either way.
PROS: 1, good graphics and gameplay,
I agree, for a game this old the graphics, especially in the later packs look very good.

2: lots of f2p gameplay,
Free to play is what promo material is to others, DDO has a lot of it.

3: many friendly people,
One of the main reasons I’m still here

4: Fair price range for p2p,
I can’t look in everybody’s wallet, but so far it seems fair, though the attempt to stick 2 unfinished adventure packs together and call it an expansion peeved a lot of subscribers off. I personally like the F2P model in DDO, this way I can cut out the steamy turds of packs and spend money on the good ones.

5: many different classes to play.
Agreed, many classes/races give plenty of build options.

CONS: 1, servers are sometimes very prone to lag and on a laptop can fry your comp.
I have played 6 years, haven’t had serious lag until U19 and saying that, it has decreased somewhat of late. I never understood why anyone would play an MMO (a time consuming thing indeed) behind a laptop. Get yourself a proper desk and chair, a big (high res flat) screen, a proper PC(multicore/lots of fast ram, fast disk/fast graphic card) and some proper game controls. If you’re spending that much time behind a screen, why not make that time comfy?

2: on higher levels in epic questing many ppl have an Elitist I am better than everyone attitude.
When the stakes are high, you need to bring something competent to the table, if your play style or toon aren’t up for the challenge, get out of the kitchen, there is always epic normal. Stop being a selfish person and stop wasting your party members time, if you die, you cost the entire party 10% exp, if you don’t carry your own weight that dead weight get’s placed on the shoulders of your party members.

3: In my opinion things like Astral shards are misleading and a waste of ddo points and how ddo store sells useless cosmetic gear for high prices.
Agreed!

4: Alignment, I mean Like my assassin and drow are good aligned. that Is not so In pen and paper. I feel like DDO has screwed up the Alignment system.
If you hadn’t noticed, this isn’t pen and paper, chapter 1 of the Eberron handbook explains that in here all alignments are blurred, basically meaningless. Turbine stated years ago to not allow for evil alignments in the game to nip grieving in the bud. Example: he dude, why did you roll on that BtC tower shield? The paladin said he needed that? Answer: because I’m evil XD.

5: If u cant afford to pay you gotta make up 100 toons to go favor farming which Is too repetitive.
I call BS, Free To Play is there to give you a free taste, nothing more. Test the game, stop whining, man up, and fork over the cash or get out.

6: Rogues are way Underpowered, a lvl 4 pally or wiz Is pretty much Godlike and a lvl 20 rogue seems to be too weak In my opinion. like for example In my x guild a lvl 4 pally has a reflex save of 50 where a lvl 20 rogue with Items and buffs may hit 27 to 30 on reflex with a dex of 30 or more.
27-30 is not bad on a first lifer, you need a lot of work still. Sounds like that paly has a lot of gear, temp buffs, a pair of those lv 17 min lv 1 bugged rings and is twisting in epic stuff. You’re lucky finding me in a good mood, normally I would have said something akin to: awww did your weewee not measure up?

7: You are pretty much forced If you are a rogue to quest with ppl and post an lfm which may take hours b4 anyone joins. too time consuming and I dont always want to quest with ppl.
In all honesty, this is an MMO, the game is designed around grouping with people that can fill certain rolles. The game is bleeding players left and right, I blame turbine’s horrible track record of … wel messing things up. You did know that tanks, pet’s/hirelings, deception/blinding weapons are a rogue’s best friend? Btw, I have solo’d a rog to cap, easy as apple cake, take time to learn the game and build you’re toon right.

8: Misleading weapon stats.
Example?

9: having to carry 10 sets of armor and weapons to fight each type of dungeon.
Yes, a feature of D&D 3.0/3,5 all melee toons need to carry a golf cart of weapons behind them or expect/accept to contribute less.

11: Aggrevating toolbars and chat which Is hard to mess with on a laptop and often u hit 1 wrong key and you got pages popping up in middle of battle, not to mention all these toolbars and diff icons and windows ends up covering up half your screen.
Don’t be so cheap/lazy, spend some time earning the money for a proper gaming set up. Also spend some time setting up your chat’s and hotbars as soon as you have said proper set up.

11: Misleading quest descriptions like This quest Is average difficulty when half time Its tougher than a challenging quest.
Realy? TBH, never paid attention to those descriptions, again learn to play/build.

12: Multi classing Has pretty much become mandatory In order to play game and very unfair to ppl who try to play game as single class not to mention Clerics use swords where I remember clerics In D&D never could use weapons that drew blood. Too many loopholes from original D&D.
Again, this is not D&D, this is not whatever setting you’re used to play, This is Eberron, a steam punk (1800 ish) modern times setting, there is no reason to stick to clubs/q-staffs and maces. The faith system (and its doctrine) works far differently too, catch up please, times have changed. As far as multi classing goes, due to the enhancement pass, there is very little reason to stay pure classed these days, especially on melee toons. Stay in normal settings and your pure class toon will be fine.


13: And why I finally quit ddo. Customer service and game mods are near nonexistant or you get error after you waste time sending In a help ticket. Sorry to say cuz I love DDO but I never had Issue with any game much as I had with ddo and It saddens my heart to quit but after a year of Items disappearing from my inventory and lag even tho I am using a 3000 dollar gaming pc with excellent internet connection. I had enough. perhaps I will come back cuz I love DDO but I hope quite honestly some old school D&D comes out as this game has very little In commom with D&D I grew up with. I mean no offense to anyone but this Is how I honestly feel. perhaps I will come back or find a game more true to D&D style play.

First you claim to use a laptop, now a 3000 dollar PC, whichever you use, a spellings check was too much for your budget?
Anyway, this game is based on 3.0/3.5 rules, set in the Eberron campaign setting, not on whatever setting you grew up with, changes to that were bound to happen.
I agree on the part about Turbine support, its quality seems to vary a lot.
My apologies for sounding to harsh but it feels like you’re whining over trivial stuff while the game is in shambles on so many other parts.
Hoping to see you back in the game as soon as you sobered up.

With kind regards,

Your reality check.

[Just_Me1963]

9: having to carry 10 sets of armor and weapons to fight each type of dungeon.

Love this bit of the rant - very funny. He laments the way DDO is not like the PnP game he remembers yet, and I have played D&D tabletop for 35 years, I don't recall a single time the DM gave me an "Item of Anything you want +100" so that I could go into any dungeon and be prepared for every contingency. In the PnP game, there are greater limitations on weapons and armour you can carry, let alone what spell caster can do. I think, for an MMO, DDO has done a fine job. I enjoy it immensely!

[Wh070aa]

Because gaming "journalists", and reviewers are extremely incompetent at their job.
I have yet to see any site that offers actual information about games, instead of "My sponsors game so good", or "I am 12 and what is this? Wow/CoD/LoL/Minecraft 4 life!"

Also the learning curve is pretty frustrating, so people end up emulating play styles they don't like, or mess up and end up with non-viable characters. Too many trap choices. Not enough explanation, or description of things that work as they are written. Also confusing UI. Learning how to see your to hit, or spell DC (or spell pen, or how much damage you do after modifiers) is nearly impossible without extensive google searches, or asking people, that don't know. I am not even starting on feats, enchantments, epic destinies, skills and spells, or skill modifier stacking.

The first impression of the game is ""Huh? I don't get it.". After that people mostly stop caring after couple of failures.